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Posted: 2/22/2006 3:37:58 PM EDT
Can someone explain to me what are required when doing a FTF firearm transaction in Ohio. Would I be in trouble with law to purchase a firearm FTF if the seller did not want to reveal identity for privacy reason? Do I need any documentation when buy a firearm in gunshow or FTF? If I sell a firearm FTF, do I have legal responsibility to check the buyer's background and keep a record of buyer's information? How do I check buyer's background if legally required? My impression is Ohio does not have much law apply on FTF, but I don't know for sure. Thanks.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:52:22 PM EDT
I do not have a whole lot of experience with this sort of thing, BUT, I will tell you what I do know, based on my one experience.....


1) I went to the Berea Gun Show in June '05

2) I found a nice Smith&Wesson 9mm that I wanted to buy, from a Private Seller

3) I asked "How much"

4) He said $300

5) I got out 3 Benjamins

6) He asked to see my driver's license to make sure I was 21

7) I gave him the $300

8) He shook my hand and said "Thanks for the sale"

9) I said "you're welcome" and went home.


Doesn't get any better than that.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 4:02:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
Would I be in trouble with law to purchase a firearm FTF if the seller did not want to reveal identity for privacy reason?


No

Originally Posted By HankC: Do I need any documentation when buy a firearm in gunshow or FTF?

No for FTF. Location is irrelevant. If you buy from a dealer at a gunshow, you will run a NICS. If you buy FTF at a gunshow, you won't.

Originally Posted By HankC: If I sell a firearm FTF, do I have legal responsibility to check the buyer's background?

No. You just have to ask if the seller is legally able to posses a firearm.

Originally Posted By HankC: If I sell a firearm FTF, do I have legal responsibility to keep a record of buyer's information?

No.

Originally Posted By HankC: How do I check buyer's background if legally required?

You ask him.

Originally Posted By HankC: My impression is Ohio does not have much law apply on FTF

Has none, actually.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:08:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:41:37 AM EDT
SWO DADDY pretty much hit the nail on the head.
All I will add to it is you cannot sell to someone you know is restricted from owning a firearm.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:39:22 AM EDT
Thank you all for the replies. If I sell a firearm FTF and eventually it ends up in a crime, do I even need to prove the sale if the gun was originally purchased/transferred at a dealer and background checked on me? What is the best way to clear myself in this situation?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:40:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
If I sell a firearm FTF and eventually it ends up in a crime, do I even need to prove the sale if the gun was originally purchased/transferred at a dealer and background checked on me?



No. That is clear by the records of the gun's original sale....which is how the police will find you if the gun is used in a crime....and usually it's just to track the gun's ownership, not to assign blame for it's misuse.


What is the best way to clear myself in this situation?


You don't have to clear yourself. Just explain you sold the gun to a private individual, there is no law against doing so.

I had a gun sold that ended up used in a crime....armed robbery in florida, IIRC. The local PD came and asked about it, I told them I sold it at a gun show, the man showed me his license, and went on his way. Asked me if I could remember his name or had written it down, I told them I did not but I did describe the guy to the best of my recollection. They said "thank you for your time" and left.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:38:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HankC:
If I sell a firearm FTF and eventually it ends up in a crime, do I even need to prove the sale if the gun was originally purchased/transferred at a dealer and background checked on me?



No. That is clear by the records of the gun's original sale....which is how the police will find you if the gun is used in a crime....and usually it's just to track the gun's ownership, not to assign blame for it's misuse.


What is the best way to clear myself in this situation?


You don't have to clear yourself. Just explain you sold the gun to a private individual, there is no law against doing so.

I had a gun sold that ended up used in a crime....armed robbery in florida, IIRC. The local PD came and asked about it, I told them I sold it at a gun show, the man showed me his license, and went on his way. Asked me if I could remember his name or had written it down, I told them I did not but I did describe the guy to the best of my recollection. They said "thank you for your time" and left.




+ eleventy billion. The burden of proof is on THE STATE, not on US.

I wish people would stop thinking THEY have to prove their innocence. It's supposed to work the other way around. I'm not saying you need to hinder the police investigation, but we are under no legal obligation to keep ANY record of sales or disposal of our firearms.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:43:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 8:52:41 AM EDT by ArmdCtzn]


+ eleventy billion. The burden of proof is on THE STATE, not on US.

I wish people would stop thinking THEY have to prove their innocence. It's supposed to work the other way around. I'm not saying you need to hinder the police investigation, but we are under no legal obligation to keep ANY record of sales or disposal of our firearms.




I'm with you. It worries me that people act surprised that they can sell a piece of their private property, to another individual, without government interference. That is how every transaction should be. You should be outraged whenever the government sticks it's nose into your business, not surprised that they don't.

Now, having said that, I do excercise a bit of common sense when I sell a gun, which is rarely. I won't sell to just anybody with the cash. If you look like a gang-banger and talk like a gang-banger, you aren't buying a gun from me. I profile.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:13:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Now, having said that, I do excercise a bit of common sense when I sell a gun, which is rarely. I won't sell to just anybody with the cash. If you look like a gang-banger and talk like a gang-banger, you aren't buying a gun from me. I profile.



Hey, I'm selective too. I won't sell to people who are better looking than I am, or taller. I also won't sell to midgets. Hate midgets. I won't sell to people who wear "wolf howling at the moon", "indian guy slumped in a saddle", or "rest in peace Dale" t-shirts. I won't sell to anyone who wears cowboy boots, or someone with a comb-over or guys of middle-easter descent who are wearing big, bulky vests with wires coming off of them. Just don't trust those guys.

The only folks I'll sell to, come to think of it, are burley bearded guys in flannel, or really hot chicks.


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:15:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Now, having said that, I do excercise a bit of common sense when I sell a gun, which is rarely. I won't sell to just anybody with the cash. If you look like a gang-banger and talk like a gang-banger, you aren't buying a gun from me. I profile.



Hey, I'm selective too. I won't sell to people who are better looking than I am, or taller.



Yeah, gotta watch those tall guys. I almost forgot, most people are taller than you.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:21:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Now, having said that, I do excercise a bit of common sense when I sell a gun, which is rarely. I won't sell to just anybody with the cash. If you look like a gang-banger and talk like a gang-banger, you aren't buying a gun from me. I profile.



Hey, I'm selective too. I won't sell to people who are better looking than I am, or taller.



Yeah, gotta watch those tall guys. I almost forgot, most people are taller than you.



I used to be 6'5", but I was involved in a tragic downhill skiing accident at the 1972 olympic games and lost my legs below the knees. Remember the "agony of defeat" guy? That was me. I'm deeply offended by your insults of my stature.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:13:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset: Remember the "agony of defeat" guy? That was me.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:48:16 PM EDT
Just an observation. Would it not make sense to record the buyers information in the event the weapon is used in a crime?

I continuously hear about people wanting to shut down gun shows due to the fact that people who are not permitted to own firearms are making purchases at these shows without the necessary background check.

What do you think?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:58:03 PM EDT
Make good note, municipalities may have laws that impose rules governing FTF private transactions.

The $hitty of Columbus has laws which say that if person A buys ANY FIREARM from person B withing the city limits, the buyer must complete the Columbus wait and registration, and if he doesn't, he can be charged for not, and the seller will be charged for selling to someone who has not.

You would be best checking into the laws of the actual transaction location. Those will come into play first, and tend to be more restrictive than state law. While people here are well intended, they may not know all the facts, and if you rely on their statements, you could end up in some hot a$$ed water...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:10:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neophyte:
Just an observation. Would it not make sense to record the buyers information in the event the weapon is used in a crime?

I continuously hear about people wanting to shut down gun shows due to the fact that people who are not permitted to own firearms are making purchases at these shows without the necessary background check.

What do you think?



I think that helping create a firearms or firearm owners registry, which is what you do when you record personal infromation regarding the transaction participants or identifying details of the firearms, is a huge mistake.

It doesn't matter if you keep it. The fact is that the transaction has been recorded, and the police can get it through subpoena. They cannot subpoena what does not exist.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:47:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
The only folks I'll sell to, come to think of it, are burley bearded guys in flannel, or really hot chicks.





My wife wants to know what you have for sale?

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:28:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By von_landstuhl:

Originally Posted By swingset:
The only folks I'll sell to, come to think of it, are burley bearded guys in flannel, or really hot chicks.





My wife wants to know what you have for sale?




Dunno, but she's qualified to buy!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:08:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 4:08:40 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By von_landstuhl:




Damn, that dude in civvies looks like me from behind.........
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:54:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Now, having said that, I do excercise a bit of common sense when I sell a gun, which is rarely. I won't sell to just anybody with the cash. If you look like a gang-banger and talk like a gang-banger, you aren't buying a gun from me. I profile.



Hey, I'm selective too. I won't sell to people who are better looking than I am, or taller.



Yeah, gotta watch those tall guys. I almost forgot, most people are taller than you.



At least he doesn't restrict his sales to those with less hair than him or he'd never sell a gun!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:42:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Damn, that dude in civvies looks like me from behind.........



Unless you were you outside FOB Endurance, Iraq (aka Q-West Airbase) last summer, I'm guessing that's not you.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:55:00 AM EDT
While it's completely legal to do such an easy transaction, I would still recommend having a standard form for people to fill out/sign stating that they are assuring me that they are legally able to own a gun, etc. etc. etc. - It may be overboard in most cases, but the first rule you should follow is COVER YOUR ASS.

IANAL, but it seems to me if the cop wants to make your life a living hell because you sold a crime gun without any documentation, he very well could.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:17:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red-Leg:

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Now, having said that, I do excercise a bit of common sense when I sell a gun, which is rarely. I won't sell to just anybody with the cash. If you look like a gang-banger and talk like a gang-banger, you aren't buying a gun from me. I profile.



Hey, I'm selective too. I won't sell to people who are better looking than I am, or taller.



Yeah, gotta watch those tall guys. I almost forgot, most people are taller than you.



At least he doesn't restrict his sales to those with less hair than him or he'd never sell a gun!



...................

I was thinking the same, but I didn't want to body slam him too hard.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:12:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zaijian:
While it's completely legal to do such an easy transaction, I would still recommend having a standard form for people to fill out/sign stating that they are assuring me that they are legally able to own a gun, etc. etc. etc. - It may be overboard in most cases, but the first rule you should follow is COVER YOUR ASS.

IANAL, but it seems to me if the cop wants to make your life a living hell because you sold a crime gun without any documentation, he very well could.




Although I bought my S&W Sigma 9mm, as described above, I was a little worried about "where it had been"......and although there is NOT ONE PIECE OF PAPER linking me to said gun, what if it WAS indeed used in a crime??....I've played out all kinds of scenarios and such in my mind, and won't go into detail here...........but I do know that when I eventually sell it, THERE WILL NOT BE ONE PIECE OF PAPER LINKING THE WEAPON TO ME.....I am fairly sure that it is a clean gun, (about 97%, I guess), but I can never be 100% sure.........as such, I accept the risk , I guess for buying from a private seller.... So I guess, the question is , "Is there anyplace or person , where one could check the serial number of a gun, ANONYMOUSLY, and if it is dirty, then proceed accordingly?"
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:08:15 PM EDT
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:31:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.




+a zillion
any guns you guys are worried about...send'em my way I'll give them a good home!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:46:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.



+1
bah bah bah....
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:38:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.



+1 But then I don't own any guns Hell I won't even take a pic of a gun for fear it might go off
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:59:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 10:01:40 AM EDT by JarheadPatriot]

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.




If you buy a stolen car, it's called RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, and you WILL GO TO JAIL....you will also lose any money that you paid for said car.........If you buy a car with stolen parts on it....SAME THING.....if you somehow convince the Police/prosecutor/judge that YOU were not the one who STOLE it, you will still lose the vehicle, and the money that you paid for it.....

Now say a thief takes a stolen weapon to Mr Private dealer.....thieves come in all sizes, shapes and colors.....who are you to say what a thief looks like?...he could look like you or me, so how do you know???....Mr Gun Collector buys the stolen weapon in say Indiana, and then comes to Ohio and sells it to me......I have no way of knowing this, and Mr Collector has no way of knowing it's stolen, so does that release me from ALL responsibility? HELL NO!......If I get caught with said stolen weapon, I have a whole lot of explaining to do.....Mr Collector /private dealer doesn't have to explain a damn thing, because he didn't get caught with it.......Even if I knew the name of who sold it to me, he could just say, "I didn't sell that gun"....so I'd be fucked.....I could care less about the rules governing "private sales", we've covered this topic already....but there is NO WAY you could be absolutely positive that you're buying a "clean" gun...NONE......

SO maybe I'm just paranoid........I don't know about you, but for me.....I'd RATHER NOT be caught with a stolen firearm......I have no felonies, and don't plan on starting now..........So for my own peace of mind, I am having my U.S. Marshall friend check the serial number for me....if I'm ok, then I'm ok...........if by chance, my fears are warranted, I'm out $300......a small price to pay for the lesson learned and my freedom kept.............but I'll tell you what...........if this weapon comes back as dirty, I'll be glad to GIVE it to you Armed......since you don't seem to mind what you buy.........


(let the shitstorm begin)
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:05:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.




If you buy a stolen car, it's called RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, and you WILL GO TO JAIL....you will also lose any money that you paid for said car.........If you buy a car with stolen parts on it....SAME THING.....if you somehow convince the Police/prosecutor/judge that YOU were not the one who STOLE it, you will still lose the vehicle, and the money that you paid for it.....

Now say a thief takes a stolen weapon to Mr Private dealer.....thieves come in all sizes, shapes and colors.....who are you to say what a thief looks like?...he could look like you or me, so how do you know???....Mr Gun Collector buys the stolen weapon in say Indiana, and then comes to Ohio and sells it to me......I have no way of knowing this, and Mr Collector has no way of knowing it's stolen, so does that release me from ALL responsibility? HELL NO!......If I get caught with said stolen weapon, I have a whole lot of explaining to do.....Mr Collector /private dealer doesn't have to explain a damn thing, because he didn't get caught with it.......Even if I knew the name of who sold it to me, he could just say, "I didn't sell that gun"....so I'd be fucked.....I could care less about the rules governing "private sales", we've covered this topic already....but there is NO WAY you could be absolutely positive that you're buying a "clean" gun...NONE......

SO maybe I'm just paranoid........I don't know about you, but for me.....I'd RATHER NOT be caught with a stolen firearm......I have no felonies, and don't plan on starting now..........So for my own peace of mind, I am having my U.S. Marshall friend check the serial number for me....if I'm ok, then I'm ok...........if by chance, my fears are warranted, I'm out $300......a small price to pay for the lesson learned and my freedom kept.............but I'll tell you what...........if this weapon comes back as dirty, I'll be glad to GIVE it to you Armed......since you don't seem to mind what you buy.........


(let the shitstorm begin)


Big -1

Do you run the VIN on cars you buy in private sales? What about boats?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:31:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.




If you buy a stolen car, it's called RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, and you WILL GO TO JAIL....you will also lose any money that you paid for said car.........If you buy a car with stolen parts on it....SAME THING.....if you somehow convince the Police/prosecutor/judge that YOU were not the one who STOLE it, you will still lose the vehicle, and the money that you paid for it.....

Now say a thief takes a stolen weapon to Mr Private dealer.....thieves come in all sizes, shapes and colors.....who are you to say what a thief looks like?...he could look like you or me, so how do you know???....Mr Gun Collector buys the stolen weapon in say Indiana, and then comes to Ohio and sells it to me......I have no way of knowing this, and Mr Collector has no way of knowing it's stolen, so does that release me from ALL responsibility? HELL NO!......If I get caught with said stolen weapon, I have a whole lot of explaining to do.....Mr Collector /private dealer doesn't have to explain a damn thing, because he didn't get caught with it.......Even if I knew the name of who sold it to me, he could just say, "I didn't sell that gun"....so I'd be fucked.....I could care less about the rules governing "private sales", we've covered this topic already....but there is NO WAY you could be absolutely positive that you're buying a "clean" gun...NONE......

SO maybe I'm just paranoid........I don't know about you, but for me.....I'd RATHER NOT be caught with a stolen firearm......I have no felonies, and don't plan on starting now..........So for my own peace of mind, I am having my U.S. Marshall friend check the serial number for me....if I'm ok, then I'm ok...........if by chance, my fears are warranted, I'm out $300......a small price to pay for the lesson learned and my freedom kept.............but I'll tell you what...........if this weapon comes back as dirty, I'll be glad to GIVE it to you Armed......since you don't seem to mind what you buy.........


(let the shitstorm begin)


Big -1

Do you run the VIN on cars you buy in private sales? What about boats?



as a matter of fact SWO, yes I do, (on cars, I never owned a boat)...Carfax.com is specifically for this.....the folks who didn't want to let me run the VIN, made me feel they had something to hide......so why should I spend my money with them.....and it's funny you'd use this example, because I just spent $7500 on a used Jeep and I spent WEEKS researching cars and their histories.......are you saying that you'd buy a car, just because it looks good, the price was right, and the guy seemed honest?......I wouldn't, and didn't.......a weapon is a little different, I agree....a $300 pistol is hardly a one of life's major purchases, and it shouldn't be....but, if it is a stolen gun, it sure could be a life altering purchase, were I to get caught with it....... my only reason for wanting to be sure, is this.......say that after I get my CCW, I'd like to carry this pistol.......now suppose something happens and I shoot someone with this gun, or get pulled over by a LEO who's a little bit anti....anyway you slice it, if THIS weapon becomes a point of contention, for any reason, it's serial number is going to get checked, regardless of the circumstances.......then I would be SCREWED.....why should I/ would I take a chance like that with my freedom?....or my family's future?..... why am I wrong for wanting to be sure I bought a clean gun?......after all, it's already paid for......the only loser, if I have to give it up, is me......It's buyer's beware market, for a reason........of course, I could purchase all of my weapons from an FFL.....but I have my own misgivings about NICS and their so called 24hr records purge from their computers.......so, what's my solution?......give up my guns?....won't happen.......not buy from private sellers?......won't happen.......I still will.....my only point I'm trying to say, is WE as a collective gun buying whole, can not be 100% sure of what we're are buying unless we know the seller personally, and have a good firsthand knowledge of their lifstyle......
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:48:48 PM EDT
buyer be where, If the deel looks to good it probly is. If you have a dout walk away.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:31:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.




If you buy a stolen car, it's called RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, and you WILL GO TO JAIL....you will also lose any money that you paid for said car.........If you buy a car with stolen parts on it....SAME THING.....if you somehow convince the Police/prosecutor/judge that YOU were not the one who STOLE it, you will still lose the vehicle, and the money that you paid for it.....

Now say a thief takes a stolen weapon to Mr Private dealer.....thieves come in all sizes, shapes and colors.....who are you to say what a thief looks like?...he could look like you or me, so how do you know???....Mr Gun Collector buys the stolen weapon in say Indiana, and then comes to Ohio and sells it to me......I have no way of knowing this, and Mr Collector has no way of knowing it's stolen, so does that release me from ALL responsibility? HELL NO!......If I get caught with said stolen weapon, I have a whole lot of explaining to do.....Mr Collector /private dealer doesn't have to explain a damn thing, because he didn't get caught with it.......Even if I knew the name of who sold it to me, he could just say, "I didn't sell that gun"....so I'd be fucked.....I could care less about the rules governing "private sales", we've covered this topic already....but there is NO WAY you could be absolutely positive that you're buying a "clean" gun...NONE......

SO maybe I'm just paranoid........I don't know about you, but for me.....I'd RATHER NOT be caught with a stolen firearm......I have no felonies, and don't plan on starting now..........So for my own peace of mind, I am having my U.S. Marshall friend check the serial number for me....if I'm ok, then I'm ok...........if by chance, my fears are warranted, I'm out $300......a small price to pay for the lesson learned and my freedom kept.............but I'll tell you what...........if this weapon comes back as dirty, I'll be glad to GIVE it to you Armed......since you don't seem to mind what you buy.........


(let the shitstorm begin)



It sorta amazes me that someone would somehow buy a stolen car. Anyone in their right mind, GETS A TITLE when they buy a car...from ANYONE. As you all know, it gets transferred from seller to buyer, the .gov gets their tax, and you get a paper saying it's yours. I don't see how someone can steal a car title and sell it to someone else. They (seller) have to provide their ID to the title office or bank when they sign off on the car.

And buying a car with stolen parts on it? Who's going to know? THere's many many many parts on cars that don't have serial numbers or any ID for that matter. How do you know that the guy you just bought a car from, didnt throw some stolen parts on it before he sold it to you? For all you know, your nice interior/ non-ripped seats may have been stolen out of another car! I can see things like, say a CD player for example...because there is an actual serial number on the unit, but like I said, theres alot of stuff that can't be tracked....therefore how can anyone prove there's stolen parts on it?

sorry if I got a little off topic
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:34:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA-A2:

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Guys, what is the deal?

Do you get this worried about buying a used car?
What if the previous owner sped, or hit somebody's kitty with the car?
Was that second-hand shovel you bought used to whack somebody upside the head,
or bury a body?

The gun is a tool. It is not evil. It cannot do anything that you don't want it to do.
I buy guns from individuals all the time, and I'm quite certain none have been used in
any crimes because I buy from people like me. Law-abiding gun enthusiasts. Are you guys
buying from gang-bangers on the street corner?

Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.




If you buy a stolen car, it's called RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, and you WILL GO TO JAIL....you will also lose any money that you paid for said car.........If you buy a car with stolen parts on it....SAME THING.....if you somehow convince the Police/prosecutor/judge that YOU were not the one who STOLE it, you will still lose the vehicle, and the money that you paid for it.....

Now say a thief takes a stolen weapon to Mr Private dealer.....thieves come in all sizes, shapes and colors.....who are you to say what a thief looks like?...he could look like you or me, so how do you know???....Mr Gun Collector buys the stolen weapon in say Indiana, and then comes to Ohio and sells it to me......I have no way of knowing this, and Mr Collector has no way of knowing it's stolen, so does that release me from ALL responsibility? HELL NO!......If I get caught with said stolen weapon, I have a whole lot of explaining to do.....Mr Collector /private dealer doesn't have to explain a damn thing, because he didn't get caught with it.......Even if I knew the name of who sold it to me, he could just say, "I didn't sell that gun"....so I'd be fucked.....I could care less about the rules governing "private sales", we've covered this topic already....but there is NO WAY you could be absolutely positive that you're buying a "clean" gun...NONE......

SO maybe I'm just paranoid........I don't know about you, but for me.....I'd RATHER NOT be caught with a stolen firearm......I have no felonies, and don't plan on starting now..........So for my own peace of mind, I am having my U.S. Marshall friend check the serial number for me....if I'm ok, then I'm ok...........if by chance, my fears are warranted, I'm out $300......a small price to pay for the lesson learned and my freedom kept.............but I'll tell you what...........if this weapon comes back as dirty, I'll be glad to GIVE it to you Armed......since you don't seem to mind what you buy.........


(let the shitstorm begin)



It sorta amazes me that someone would somehow buy a stolen car. Anyone in their right mind, GETS A TITLE when they buy a car...from ANYONE. As you all know, it gets transferred from seller to buyer, the .gov gets their tax, and you get a paper saying it's yours. I don't see how someone can steal a car title and sell it to someone else. They (seller) have to provide their ID to the title office or bank when they sign off on the car.

And buying a car with stolen parts on it? Who's going to know? THere's many many many parts on cars that don't have serial numbers or any ID for that matter. How do you know that the guy you just bought a car from, didnt throw some stolen parts on it before he sold it to you? For all you know, your nice interior/ non-ripped seats may have been stolen out of another car! I can see things like, say a CD player for example...because there is an actual serial number on the unit, but like I said, theres alot of stuff that can't be tracked....therefore how can anyone prove there's stolen parts on it?

sorry if I got a little off topic



point well taken RRA.........I guess with a car you can't be 100% sure either......but I can have the serial number checked on a gun.....even then, a report would have needed to be filed with police....so in reality. I imagine that even a serial number check wouldn't produce 100% accurate results.....
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:26:58 AM EDT
If there are no records kept of anything in a FTF private sale, why do you need to go and track the SN of the gun? Why does it matter?

If the ohio .gov doesnt care about tracking who owns a firearm and what gets sold FTF privately, why should you?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:11:48 PM EDT
...the chair is against the wall...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA-A2:
If there are no records kept of anything in a FTF private sale, why do you need to go and track the SN of the gun? Why does it matter?

If the ohio .gov doesnt care about tracking who owns a firearm and what gets sold FTF privately, why should you?



you misunderstood my posts........I don't want RECORDS of FTF transactions.....my question was.....IF SOMEONE BUYS A FIREARM, FTF, HOW CAN ONE FIND OUT IF IT WAS STOLEN OR NOT?........please do not say it doesn't matter if someone sells you/me a stolen weapon.......read my previous posts.....if one of us were to get caught with a stolen firearm, we'd be in some serious trouble.........I, IN NO WAY want to create records of the sales, that's not what I'm asking..........I bought a pistol, FTF, and am only asking, TO COVER MY OWN ASS.........why is this a problem?.....Iguess no one sells stolen guns in Ohio.......
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:19:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
...the chair is against the wall...





huh
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:00:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
...the chair is against the wall...





huh




Red Dawn, watch it.
Also, you should read Unintended Consequences, soon.
Enemies Foreign and Domestic would be a good read for you, too.
Report back, your deprogramming has begun.
This will get you started on the good and right path.

Oh yeah, if your gun comes back "dirty" as you said, you can give it to me, but I would rather
you return it to it's lawful owner as that is what I would do with it anyway. I am a firm believer that the more guns there are in the hands of citizens the more secure our freedom is. Armed Citizens are the best guarantee of liberty.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:21:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:


Red Dawn, watch it.
Also, you should read Unintended Consequences, soon.
Enemies Foreign and Domestic would be a good read for you, too.
Report back, your deprogramming has begun.
This will get you started on the good and right path.





I dont know if hes ready for this journey. All of us must follow the path one day though.

Only time will tell
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:13:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 11:14:21 AM EDT by JarheadPatriot]

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
...the chair is against the wall...





huh




Red Dawn, watch it.
Also, you should read Unintended Consequences, soon.
Enemies Foreign and Domestic would be a good read for you, too.
Report back, your deprogramming has begun.
This will get you started on the good and right path.

Oh yeah, if your gun comes back "dirty" as you said, you can give it to me, but I would rather
you return it to it's lawful owner as that is what I would do with it anyway. I am a firm believer that the more guns there are in the hands of citizens the more secure our freedom is. Armed Citizens are the best guarantee of liberty.



that's my point, JohnnyArmd, if it is someone else's, I'm sure they would want it back.....if it is a good buy, I'M KEEPING IT....lol........I am building my gun collection/arsenal one weapon at a time.....I like the guns I have, and intend to buy more, from FTF transactions, and from my FFL....and I like Ohio's FTF sale laws......very buyer friendly.....and who wrote those two books?.....I'll go the library tonight and see if they have them..........I've seen "Red Dawn" although, not in quite a few years.......
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:22:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
...the chair is against the wall...





huh




Red Dawn, watch it.
Also, you should read Unintended Consequences, soon.
Enemies Foreign and Domestic would be a good read for you, too.
Report back, your deprogramming has begun.
This will get you started on the good and right path.

Oh yeah, if your gun comes back "dirty" as you said, you can give it to me, but I would rather
you return it to it's lawful owner as that is what I would do with it anyway. I am a firm believer that the more guns there are in the hands of citizens the more secure our freedom is. Armed Citizens are the best guarantee of liberty.



that's my point, JohnnyArmd, if it is someone else's, I'm sure they would want it back.....if it is a good buy, I'M KEEPING IT....lol........I am building my gun collection/arsenal one weapon at a time.....I like the guns I have, and intend to buy more, from FTF transactions, and from my FFL....and I like Ohio's FTF sale laws......very buyer friendly.....and who wrote those two books?.....I'll go the library tonight and see if they have them..........I've seen "Red Dawn" although, not in quite a few years.......




I think the Gestapo............I mean, Homeland Security Dept took those books out of circulation.........the library didn't have either one........they also didn't have "Red Dawn"


what's going on? maybe these materials are too dangerous for the average American?

­

Naaaahhhh­, I can get the movie at Blockbuster........and I guess I'll have to buy the books from Amazon...
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:09:26 PM EDT
You will not find either of those books at a library in the U.S. today.

I'd start with Unintended Consequences by John Ross. It begins with a great history of firearms legislation in the U.S., then it becomes a fictional novel which is a good read. If you want to wait until Knob Creek you can usually get a copy signed by John. He is generally at the first table you'd come to in the pole barn as you walk in from the main gate.

Enemies Foreign and Domestic, I can't remember the author's name, and my copy is buried somewhere. I'm sure you can find it on Amazon.commies.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:35:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
Think of yourself as a one man gun buy back program. You're "taking guns off the street".
Every gun that I buy is one less gun available to a bad guy. I should be buying more guns.

You guys need some de-programming or something, you've been brainwashed by anti-gunners somewhere along the line.



Classic.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:39:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:
You will not find either of those books at a library in the U.S. today.

I'd start with Unintended Consequences by John Ross. It begins with a great history of firearms legislation in the U.S., then it becomes a fictional novel which is a good read. If you want to wait until Knob Creek you can usually get a copy signed by John. He is generally at the first table you'd come to in the pole barn as you walk in from the main gate.

Enemies Foreign and Domestic, I can't remember the author's name, and my copy is buried somewhere. I'm sure you can find it on Amazon.commies.




When and where is Knob Creek? Is it a gun show?.....Both books are listed at Amazon......the librarian, after she couldn't find them or explain why the public library didn't have them, made a comment to the effect of....."Must be some dangerous reading materials....."..........I was like,....now I'm gonna get a knock at my door, from the Secret Library Police...........lol
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:09:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
...the chair is against the wall...



John has a long moustache!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:




When and where is Knob Creek? Is it a gun show?



Oh my God! It's worse than I thought. What is Knob Creek?! What is Knob Creek?!
This is like a muslim asking "what is Mecca?", or a Christian asking "what is Bethlehem?"
or a Jew saying "What is Jerusalem?"

Is it a gun show? It is THE gun show. Any other show pales in comparison.
National Gun Day is good, the Indy 1500 is good, OGCA shows are even cool, but
Knob Creek is... well, Knob Freakin' Creek my boy!

Son, you have much to learn. Google Knob Creek Gun Range and you'll get a taste.

I'm going to need help here boys, this one's serious.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:06:01 AM EDT
LMAO!

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:11:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn: I'm going to need help here boys, this one's serious.


Ok, I'll help.









Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:31:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 3:33:12 PM EDT by Duranda1]
Sorry the quality is a bit crappy on those photos. I did a couple sequential frame grabs from video I had.

Here are some other "explanations":

I took this one back in '01 and caught it just right...the NIGHT SHOOT...


























A little overhead map I put together...


Our camp site (Anyone else going to Bulletfest this year? I have all the tents, netting and trailer! )


Me in a mule picking up ammo...sad to say, the guy that owned this sold it for a mere 3500.00. *sigh* Those were to good old days...


I do not have any photos of the gun show part of it...pretty much any gun you want to buy the FFL(1) range a huge selection of NFA stuff plus the parts to go with them, plus lots of surplus, and TONS (literally) of ammo...about 200 vendors, maybe a bit more, and then shooting competitions for rifle, carbine, pistol, shotgun, and a jungle walk.

That help Randy?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:26:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdCtzn:

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:




When and where is Knob Creek? Is it a gun show?



Oh my God! It's worse than I thought. What is Knob Creek?! What is Knob Creek?!
This is like a muslim asking "what is Mecca?", or a Christian asking "what is Bethlehem?"
or a Jew saying "What is Jerusalem?"

Is it a gun show? It is THE gun show. Any other show pales in comparison.
National Gun Day is good, the Indy 1500 is good, OGCA shows are even cool, but
Knob Creek is... well, Knob Freakin' Creek my boy!

Son, you have much to learn. Google Knob Creek Gun Range and you'll get a taste.

I'm going to need help here boys, this one's serious.



oh Lord, what have I done?
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