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Posted: 3/15/2005 11:42:42 AM EST
My friggin tax dollars at work. In order to relieve congestion that isn't THAT bad in the first place...they are closing down most of where I drive to "fix it". This is where my .05 per gallon is going.......



State Route 16 Center/Tyler Ramps to Close March 28

PIERCE COUNTY - The Washington State Department of Transportation will close
the State Route 16 ramps from Center Street and offramp to Tyler Street on
March 28 as part of the $90.5 million SR 16 highway improvement project.

A new, safer interchange to improve traffic flow in the Center Street and
Orchard Street area will open in 2007. Drivers on the new ramps will have
more space to enter and exit the highway, as the new ramps will feature
longer acceleration and deceleration area.

A WSDOT Park-n-Ride located at SR 16 and Center Street will also close March
28. It will be temporarily relocated to Tacoma Alliance Church at 2401 South
Orchard Street. The Park-n-Ride will reopen at the Center Street location in
2007.

Replacement of the ramps are part of the 2003 Legislative nickel gas
tax-funding package to widen SR 16 from the Olympic Drive interchange in Gig
Harbor to the Nalley Valley Viaduct in Tacoma. Completion remains scheduled
for Spring 2007, to coincide with opening of the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge.

When finished, this segment of SR 16 will provide greater traffic capacity
that will result in faster and safer travel through the corridor and
improved access to surrounding communities. The widening project also
includes a new walking and biking trail designed to accommodate
non-motorized travel, separating it from the busy freeway and city streets,
while linking bicycle riders and pedestrians to important connections along
the corridor.




GAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! That's the EXACT way I have to go to/from work!

Existing interchange:



Proposed Interchange:



I guess I'll just set one of these up on the top of our parking garage:

www.yurt.com



<<SIGH>>


rant over
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:43:55 AM EST
nevermind...I'm not done


2007!?!?!?!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:52:21 AM EST
While it is closed down you will need to drive further to get to work, which will make you use more gas, which in turn will help pay for this project. It all works out in the end....
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:57:55 AM EST
So what's the problem? Usually this state waits for the problem to be really insane, then takes 5 years to get a temporary fix in place. It sounds like they are being proactive (for once) in taking action now so that in 5 years you won't be complaining about the insane traffic congestion and wondering why it wasn't fixed years ago.

It looks like it will take 2 years to complete, during which time traffic through there is going to suck. Then it should be able to handle the traffic needs for the next decade. Imagine if they waited for the traffic to become "bad" then take 2 years to fix it (where traffic will totally suck.) I imagine the complaining would be tremendous from anyone that had to drive on the road, before and during construction.

All things considered, this will actually benefit you quite nicely over the years. You're already paying the tax, at least you will get the benefit of those dollars......
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:59:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scollins:
So what's the problem? Usually this state waits for the problem to be really insane, then takes 5 years to get a temporary fix in place. It sounds like they are being proactive (for once) in taking action now so that in 5 years you won't be complaining about the insane traffic congestion and wondering why it wasn't fixed years ago.

It looks like it will take 2 years to complete, during which time traffic through there is going to suck. Then it should be able to handle the traffic needs for the next decade. Imagine if they waited for the traffic to become "bad" then take 2 years to fix it (where traffic will totally suck.) I imagine the complaining would be tremendous from anyone that had to drive on the road, before and during construction.

All things considered, this will actually benefit you quite nicely over the years. You're already paying the tax, at least you will get the benefit of those dollars......



Yea, I know..... I just had to rant for a minute......
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:14:24 PM EST
As I recall, they're going to have the whole I5 corridor or one or another feeder freeways screwed up till like 2012-- we all feel your pain, brother.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:20:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Scollins:
So what's the problem? Usually this state waits for the problem to be really insane, then takes 5 years to get a temporary fix in place. It sounds like they are being proactive (for once) in taking action now so that in 5 years you won't be complaining about the insane traffic congestion and wondering why it wasn't fixed years ago.

It looks like it will take 2 years to complete, during which time traffic through there is going to suck. Then it should be able to handle the traffic needs for the next decade. Imagine if they waited for the traffic to become "bad" then take 2 years to fix it (where traffic will totally suck.) I imagine the complaining would be tremendous from anyone that had to drive on the road, before and during construction.

All things considered, this will actually benefit you quite nicely over the years. You're already paying the tax, at least you will get the benefit of those dollars......



+1
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:15:24 AM EST
ok, fine......you guys are right.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:33:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
ok, fine......you guys are right.




And Dont ever forget that!

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:53:31 AM EST
Look at the new US-2 trestle between Everett and Snohomish. They finally replaced the ancient, decrepit, falling apart, 2 lane wooden structure with guess what? (Drum roll....) Another freaking 2 lane structure. Gee, let's not give any consideration to the numerous MASSIVE high density housing developments we've allowed to be built in Frontier Village/Lake Stevens and Monroe or the many more surely to come. Let's not give a second thought to the huge growth in population in the area and subsequent traffic that uses the testle. Let's just build another freaking 2 lane road instead of using ANY foresight and adding a third lane for a fraction of the cost that doing so at some point in the future is going to cost.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:54:04 AM EST
Aaaaaaa. Looks like what the locals in Louisville call spagetti junction. Sections of 2 lane highways going here and there looping over and under and all semi connected in the air and on the ground.

I want to kill the people who design such crap.

"Let's see, I'm going east and I want to go north at this next highway, is my exit on the left, on the right, am I even on the correct little ribbon of highway? I've somehow managed to got off and back on this same section of road for the past three hours and still can't find it."

It's not that bad, but damn if you aren't really familiar with wich lane you need to be in you are shit out of luck.

I propose a new constitutional amendment. We'll kill all the people who design highways and start over.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 9:00:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Boomer:
Look at the new US-2 trestle between Everett and Snohomish. They finally replaced the ancient, decrepit, falling apart, 2 lane wooden structure with guess what? (Drum roll....) Another freaking 2 lane structure. Gee, let's not give any consideration to the numerous MASSIVE high density housing developments we've allowed to be built in Frontier Village/Lake Stevens and Monroe or the many more surely to come. Let's not give a second thought to the huge growth in population in the area and subsequent traffic that uses the testle. Let's just build another freaking 2 lane road instead of using ANY foresight and adding a third lane for a fraction of the cost that doing so at some point in the future is going to cost.



The massive four lane expansion of 270 between Moscow and Pullman, which would have made it reasonable to drive back and forth, got shut down by local socialists assholes citizens. The road was designed and funded as two two lane seperated segments, but that was "too big". We'll never see that road fixed.

For those unaware, there is nowhere to pass on 270 and drunks often go offroading - taking people in oncoming lanes with them.

The other day, in good weather, I saw three cars that had gone offroad in three seperate places. Not one wreck with three cars, three one car wrecks. Amazing.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:32:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:37:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By JAFO:
Just learn how to read and the signs will tell you where to go.



KY!
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:41:00 AM EST
Hey, Ry Jones, don't forget U.S. 95 and 195. Both are death traps, especially when Wazzu is in session.
Of course, it's not all the students. I can't count the number of times I've been passed on the shoulder or forced onto it by some drunken mother during Mom's Weekend in Pullman. (It's also the weekend of the highest condom sales in Pullman - Old frat gals going back to relive their glory days! hock.gif)

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:43:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:
Aaaaaaa. Looks like what the locals in Louisville call spagetti junction. Sections of 2 lane highways going here and there looping over and under and all semi connected in the air and on the ground.

I want to kill the people who design such crap.

"Let's see, I'm going east and I want to go north at this next highway, is my exit on the left, on the right, am I even on the correct little ribbon of highway? I've somehow managed to got off and back on this same section of road for the past three hours and still can't find it."

It's not that bad, but damn if you aren't really familiar with wich lane you need to be in you are shit out of luck.

I propose a new constitutional amendment. We'll kill all the people who design highways and start over.




Yeah, its amazing some of the crap they design. They spent all that money at the 196th/5 interchange in Lynnwood and its still a useless mess. They could have built three cloverleafs on the area they built what they have now. And you STILL can't go north from the west side of the highway!!!!

I have a theory, much like my ship canel bridge theory, that WADOT only hires people who are failed traffic flow 101.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:23:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Imteam:
Hey, Ry Jones, don't forget U.S. 95 and 195. Both are death traps, especially when Wazzu is in session.
Of course, it's not all the students. I can't count the number of times I've been passed on the shoulder or forced onto it by some drunken mother during Mom's Weekend in Pullman. (It's also the weekend of the highest condom sales in Pullman - Old frat gals going back to relive their glory days! )




95 is undergoing construction right now to fix it's worst problems. 270 was scheduled for groundbreaking, but it's been put off now.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:51:06 PM EST
WSDOT is definitely wacked. My real beef is with the whole rail thing, though.

Holy crap. Sounder trains, then light rail (aka the Rainier Valley Crack Express), and the Monorail. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode. Monoraiiilllllll!

So, what does the great city of Austin TX do? They fly up to Seattle to find out how Seattle's doing it so Austin can do the same thing.

I live in Williamson County now. Austin's in Travis County, but I'm concerned if they run that train into Cedar Park like they plan, I'll have to pay for it.

LOL - and Austin decided to join the Texas bandwagon and make toll roads. So, they're building this behemoth toll road loop thing from the Travis County part of Round Rock down to the MoPac loop. Once they found out the state wasn't paying for maintenance on it, they've been considering backing out of the project. They thought the state was going to pay maintenance and then Austin could just collect the tolls and use them to fund psychic research or whatever they're doing.

Sometimes I feel like I moved from Seattle to Seattle, only 20 degrees hotter.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:50:53 PM EST
Washington needs to make I-5 an 8 lane in each direction of travel super freeway from the Oregon boarder to the Canadian boarder with it becoming 12 lanes in each direction from Tacoma to Everett.

405 needs to be an 8 lane in each direction freeway and the Renton S curves need to be done away with.

Hwy 9 needs to become the 9 freeway with 4 lanes of travel in each direction from Monroe to Sedro Wolly.

99 needs to become an 8 lane freeway.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:12:08 PM EST
Is it me, or is this the only state in the Union where when two Interstate highways meet, there's only a one-lane on/off ramp to the other Interstate? WSDOT needs to quit pandering to the enviro-whacko tree huggers, travel the U.S. and take note of the good highway designs found elsewhere. When they get back to Washington from their field trip, implement only the good ideas that they took note of. Of course, the Dims in Olympia will "need" a $0.50 gas-tax, tolls or some shit like that to merely study that idea.

Oh, that above picture of the finished highway product looks like a bad knock-off of an Aurora AFX slot-car track.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 6:13:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 6:16:49 PM EST by Master_Blaster]
This state just loves spaghetti road networks. The interchanges around I-405, immediately south of the UW Bothel campus are really something. Then of course, there's the stuff going on around I-90 just off of I-405.

Edited to add: I'm a bit surprised those proposed overpasses are using double-column supports. Seems that single columns would impart necessary flexibility to survive in this tectonically-active region.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 10:39:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
This state just loves spaghetti road networks. The interchanges around I-405, immediately south of the UW Bothel campus are really something. Then of course, there's the stuff going on around I-90 just off of I-405.

Edited to add: I'm a bit surprised those proposed overpasses are using double-column supports. Seems that single columns would impart necessary flexibility to survive in this tectonically-active region.



Ahhh, but you forget. The goal isn't to actually build roads that are fast and efficient. I mean why are people STILL driving around with studded tires? Here we are in a drought, abnormally "tropical" weather and WADOT is letting people continue to destroy the roads. I mean we could have a major ice storm this time a year.

That's a major irritation for me. I was a kid in Missouri when studded tires first came out. State let them be used for a year. Decided to give them a second year of evaluation and then banned them forever. Decision was the damage done to the roads far, far exceeded any benefit gained from their use. I mean I just don't get it. Places like Wisconsin and Minnesota don't allow them and will ticket for driving with chains on dry roads. And we all know they have the same weather patterns we have.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 10:43:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 11:03:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Washington needs to make I-5 an 8 lane in each direction of travel super freeway from the Oregon boarder to the Canadian boarder with it becoming 12 lanes in each direction from Tacoma to Everett.

405 needs to be an 8 lane in each direction freeway and the Renton S curves need to be done away with.

Hwy 9 needs to become the 9 freeway with 4 lanes of travel in each direction from Monroe to Sedro Wolly.

99 needs to become an 8 lane freeway.




I don't think the number of lanes would change much congestion around here. People don't seem to know how to legally use 6 lanes, let alone more.



We need to just get rid of the NNFs.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 11:16:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 12:01:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By Boomer:

We need to just get rid of the NNFs.



Then there would be half the amount of people... going under the speed limit in all available lanes.



Worked fine 10-15 years ago.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 12:06:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 12:16:41 PM EST
LOL - 15 years ago, driving from Seattle to Tacoma during rush hour still sucked.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 12:24:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By 2whiskeyP:

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By Boomer:

We need to just get rid of the NNFs.



Then there would be half the amount of people... going under the speed limit in all available lanes.



Worked fine 10-15 years ago.



I highly doubt that. It certainly wasn't 9 years ago. I think this is the old timer syndrome... "back in the good ole days..."



+1

I've been up here 11 years now and things were just as bad then as they are now. I'm doing the Northend 405 commute again like I did then. Still the same no drive window between 7 and 9.

I was listening to the Dave Ross show years ago when the depate on speed limits was increasing. After listening to whiner after whiner about how this was going to kill everyone I got fed up enough to call. When asked what my input was I said it didn't make any difference what the speed limit got moved up to. After they couldn't drive 55 as it was. He started laughing so hard they went to a break.
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