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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/1/2009 3:09:44 PM EST
Yep, mandatory for all craft under 21' between November and May. Because four people may have died due to cold water in a state of 20,000,000 people (note that a lack of PFD is not necessarily the cause of those deaths). The nanny state continues.

NY Requires Life Jackets for Cold Weather Boating

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP/1010 WINS) –– Seizing on the chilling fact that drowning happens faster in cold water, New York has become the first state to require life jackets on everyone in all small boats during the coldest half of the year.

More boating accidents happen in the summer, when more people are out on the water, but the fatality rate rises in the colder months, from 8 percent nationally in July to 25 percent in November last year. Officials say the scarcity of other boaters to help with rescues also increases the risk of death.

"The cold water carries greater risks than summertime warm weather boating,'' state parks department spokesman Dan Keefe said. "You lose your ability to swim. Even strong swimmers can succumb to the cold water because their arms and legs get numb and useless.''

Falling into cold water can trigger shock, as well as gasping, causing the unexpected swimmer to suddenly inhale water. Immersion in water colder than 40 degrees Fahrenheit can lead to hypothermia and passing out within 15 minutes.

Starting Nov. 1, kayakers, canoeists and those aboard all other boats under 21 feet must wear Coast Guard-approved personal flotation devices while on New York's coastal waters, lakes, rivers and other waterways. The rule will remain in effect through May 1. Violators face fines ranging from $25 to $100.

Similar seasonal requirements for wearing personal flotation devices apply to canoes and kayaks in Massachusetts and to all manually propelled vessels, including rowboats, in Connecticut.

The New York law is broader, affecting all pleasure craft, including small sailboats and motorboats, according to the state Department of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.

The department, which oversees marine law enforcement in New York, sought the law. The state Legislature passed the bill, with boating industry backing, in the spring. Gov. David Paterson signed it this summer.

"It's perhaps the No. 1 best thing you can do to protect yourself on the water, wearing a life jacket,'' said Matthew Long, of the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators.

New York law already required PFDs for all children under 12 on boats less than 65 feet, with life jackets onboard for others. They must also be worn by anyone in tow –– like water skiers and tubers –– and by all riders on personal watercraft, Keefe said. Racing shells used by crew teams are exempt from the requirement.

Most boating deaths nationally are drownings from smaller craft, with 421 last year, according to the U.S. Coast Guard. Of the 709 total boating deaths, 510 people drowned. About 90 percent weren't wearing life jackets.

A Coast Guard study shows only 23 percent of all boaters wear PFDs, including children generally required to wear them. That rate drops to 5 percent of adults in open motorboats

In New York, 21 boaters died last year, four in the colder seasons, Keefe said. The 2007 total was the same, with six dying in colder months.
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 3:41:52 PM EST
More nanny state BS... Sure it makes sense to wear your PFD under those conditions but the ongoing need to make laws in an effort to legislate common sense is un-American.

FWIW I was in a canoeing accident back in April of 1994 and I would attribute my surviving to the PFD and the Farmer John wetsuit I was wearing. I doubt I'd ever have made it to shore without them. Nonetheless I fail to see why it should be mandated by law.
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 4:00:50 PM EST
This kind of sucks for the early part of striper season, considering we'll be out on the water for 12 to 15 hours at a time. More nanny state bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 4:43:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 4:45:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 5:25:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2009 5:26:40 PM EST by Tahawus]
Originally Posted By sherm8404:
If we save just one life all the revenue generated by hundreds of issued summonses will be worth it.


I don't buy that. That kind of logic isn't so far away from those who would ban semi-autos. Hey, if it saves just one life.
I wear my life vest EVERY time I kayak. I don't see the point of it when I am anchored in the Hudson in a 19-foot Bayliner in late April fishing for stripers with a dozen other boats around doing the same thing.

Link Posted: 9/1/2009 5:33:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tahawus:
Originally Posted By sherm8404:
If we save just one life all the revenue generated by hundreds of issued summonses will be worth it.


I don't buy that. That kind of logic isn't so far away from those who would ban semi-autos. Hey, if it saves just one life.
I wear my life vest EVERY time I kayak. I don't see the point of it when I am anchored in the Hudson in a 19-foot Bayliner in late April fishing for stripers with a dozen other boats around doing the same thing.



Im pretty sure he was being sarcastic

Link Posted: 9/1/2009 5:39:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2009 5:41:20 PM EST by fp1201]
It's kinda like the helmet law: Sure it makes sense and it's a damn goog idea to wear one, but we really don't need NYS telling us ow to live our lives....Of course they don't want you to pay fines either.

BTW: I always wear a PFD, then again my boat is considered experimental by the Coast Guard and WILL sink if you're not paying 100% attention to what you're doing.
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 5:53:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Adirondack47:
Originally Posted By Tahawus:
Originally Posted By sherm8404:
If we save just one life all the revenue generated by hundreds of issued summonses will be worth it.


I don't buy that. That kind of logic isn't so far away from those who would ban semi-autos. Hey, if it saves just one life.
I wear my life vest EVERY time I kayak. I don't see the point of it when I am anchored in the Hudson in a 19-foot Bayliner in late April fishing for stripers with a dozen other boats around doing the same thing.



Im pretty sure he was being sarcastic



Yeah. I guess maybe I didn't have my sarcasm detector on. I am so not looking forward to wearing a life vest for 14 hours straight. I guess my buddy needs to buy a bigger boat.
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 6:44:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By fp1201:
It's kinda like the helmet law: Sure it makes sense and it's a damn goog idea to wear one, but we really don't need NYS telling us ow to live our lives....Of course they don't want you to pay fines either.

BTW: I always wear a PFD, then again my boat is considered experimental by the Coast Guard and WILL sink if you're not paying 100% attention to what you're doing.


what kind of boat is that?
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 6:57:45 PM EST
I have to agree with this law. I had a boating accident a few months back and lost all of my guns and ammo. Luckily I had a life vest on and I survived while my guns and ammo sunk to the bottom of Lake Ontario a few miles out.
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 7:04:04 PM EST
well i see this post has generated alot of mixed thoughts - I for one will post on this since I personal have recovered 5 bodies this year alone since april. I am a capt with a fire dept and also the Dive Rescue Team leader, for the first 2 double drowning we had it was in april and if both of them had there PFD's then they still would be around this day. Here is something i just pulled off my depts Operating Procedures -
Rescue Vs Recovery
Water Temperature (degrees)Exhaustion / Unconscious Survival Time
32.5 Under 15 minutes 15 to 45 minutes
32.5 - 40 15 to 30 minutes 30 to 90 minutes
40 - 50 30 to 60 minutes 1 to 3 hours
50 - 60 1 to 2 hours 1 to 6 hours
60 - 70 2 to 7 hours 2 to 40 hours
70 - 80 3 to 12 hours 3 hours to Indefinite
Over 80 Indefinite Indefinite

I spent over 2yrs putting together our FD manual and have taken 20 different water related classes. All I can tell you is this - YES PFDS ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT THEY WILL SAVE YOU LIFE IN THE END IF YOU HAVE THEM ON !
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 7:05:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2009 11:59:47 PM EST
"Dive Rescue Team leader" always sounds like an action filled romantic type of job until you come to realize
that maybe 80-90% of the job is dead body search and recovery. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Did anyone see HBO "Real Sports w/ B. Gumby"? They had an episode with the one surviving football player
from the Fla. boating accident. They made a lot of mistakes but if they would of had one of those Epirb (sp)
things they would have been found in what, under three hours maybe?

Last time I was on the water was last Jan. in the USVI and I was in a SMALL 17ft. speed boat doing a little
trolling fishing. I wore a life preserver even though when my cousin threw it to me I was thinking, heck I can swim.
When we went out we stayed parallel to the shore and about a half mile out. Still I was thinking, NO WAY my
couch commando ass is in shape for a 1000 yard swim, open ocean, without a flotation device.

Now just recently my cousin bought a "new" used boat shipped in from Fla., a center console boat about 21 ft.
As I told him, finally something I can walk around in! So what I need to know is, how much do those Epirb's
cost, I may just get him one for Christmas. (before I go out on the ocean again :-)

L.jr.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 1:29:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 5:22:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By fp1201:
It's kinda like the helmet law: Sure it makes sense and it's a damn goog idea to wear one, but we really don't need NYS telling us ow to live our lives....Of course they don't want you to pay fines either.

BTW: I always wear a PFD, then again my boat is considered experimental by the Coast Guard and WILL sink if you're not paying 100% attention to what you're doing.


what kind of boat is that?

Not mine but a good representation:


Link Posted: 9/2/2009 10:00:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By MForo:
I spent over 2yrs putting together our FD manual and have taken 20 different water related classes. All I can tell you is this - YES PFDS ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT THEY WILL SAVE YOU LIFE IN THE END IF YOU HAVE THEM ON !


Nobody is debating the effectiveness of a PDF. We are objecting to the continual encroachment of government into decisions a free people can and should make on their own. I object to the mentality of people who think another law to make us "safer" is a good thing. I object to making law enforcement the enforcers of nanny state regulations. A free people should make these decisions and also bear the consequences of decisions they make.

Link Posted: 9/2/2009 12:25:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By MForo:
well i see this post has generated alot of mixed thoughts - I for one will post on this since I personal have recovered 5 bodies this year alone since april. I am a capt with a fire dept and also the Dive Rescue Team leader, for the first 2 double drowning we had it was in april and if both of them had there PFD's then they still would be around this day. Here is something i just pulled off my depts Operating Procedures -
Rescue Vs Recovery
Water Temperature (degrees)Exhaustion / Unconscious Survival Time
32.5 Under 15 minutes 15 to 45 minutes
32.5 - 40 15 to 30 minutes 30 to 90 minutes
40 - 50 30 to 60 minutes 1 to 3 hours
50 - 60 1 to 2 hours 1 to 6 hours
60 - 70 2 to 7 hours 2 to 40 hours
70 - 80 3 to 12 hours 3 hours to Indefinite
Over 80 Indefinite Indefinite

I spent over 2yrs putting together our FD manual and have taken 20 different water related classes. All I can tell you is this - YES PFDS ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT THEY WILL SAVE YOU LIFE IN THE END IF YOU HAVE THEM ON !



Ahhhhhhh, NO LOGIC DAMMIT!
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 12:28:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Vly:
Originally Posted By MForo:
I spent over 2yrs putting together our FD manual and have taken 20 different water related classes. All I can tell you is this - YES PFDS ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS BUT THEY WILL SAVE YOU LIFE IN THE END IF YOU HAVE THEM ON !


Nobody is debating the effectiveness of a PDF. We are objecting to the continual encroachment of government into decisions a free people can and should make on their own. I object to the mentality of people who think another law to make us "safer" is a good thing. I object to making law enforcement the enforcers of nanny state regulations. A free people should make these decisions and also bear the consequences of decisions they make.



Which would be fine if you could sign off on a rescue attempt should you fall overboard/ get caged/ get ejected from your vehicle. Unfortunately there is no means to do that and the response to try and save the dying stupid person is VERY expensive.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 1:23:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By 762DM:
Which would be fine if you could sign off on a rescue attempt should you fall overboard/ get caged/ get ejected from your vehicle. Unfortunately there is no means to do that and the response to try and save the dying stupid person is VERY expensive.


This is the neglected portion of the argument:
When you get hurt, lost, trapped, drown, et al... People have to go out and rescue you. This is expensive both in time and money.
Don't need no stink'n helmet; that's fine, I wish you a lifetime of good riding fortune, Hopefully I'll never have to scrape up what's left of your mellon after some retard pulls out in front of you and you go over the bars.
Good swimmer? How about fully clothed? or how about if you smack the water hard enough to get knocked out? Back to the time & money thing: got any idea what it costs to fly in a helicopter, or to mount a search & rescue/recovery? It's folks good nature to come out of the woodwork to help in times of need, but it needn't be needlessly.
You cannot and should not legislate "common sense" but you can bill for the lack there of.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 1:55:46 PM EST
I could have sworn the regulation for the cold season temps only applied when the boat was underway, making way.

underway= not at anchor or tied to the dock
making way= under propulsion

I'll have to double check.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 2:03:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2009 2:10:23 PM EST by SteelonSteel]
Well dang.

Edited to add, the blue is a cut and paste from NYS parks and rec Marine web site. The underlining is my doing.

Life Jacket Wear Requirements

Beginning November 1, 2009, Section 40, Subdivision 1 of the Navigation Law shall be amended by adding new paragraph (e), which reads as follows:

No owner or operator of a pleasure vessel less than twenty-one feet, including rowboats, canoes, and kayaks shall permit its operation, between November first and May first, unless each person on board such vessel is wearing a securely fastened United States Coast Guard approved wearable personal flotation device of an appropriate size when such vessel is underway.

Failure to wear a lifejacket on such vessels will be considered a violation under Section 73-c if the Navigation Law and is punishable by a fine of not less than $100 nor more than $250, applicable to either the operator and/or the owner of the vessel.



It says underway (not making way). So if you're drifting, resting, floating but not tied to the dock you still technically need to wear it. If you anchor, dock, beach, moor the vessel your no longer under way. A fine point of distinction. I'm sure if you're at anchor and fishing w/o the jacket on someone could mistakenly get a stupid ticket. If I was a lawyer I'd pick it apart in court. In one part it says permit operation of the vessel and the other part says when underway. Define operate, may or may not mean using the motor,paddle, sail, etc. Underway is clearly defined in Chapmans. Aka the nautical bible I guess comparable to Black's law dictionary.

You would be suprised at the number of duck hunters who don't even have a lifejacket on board. With all the other paraphenalia they are often overlooked.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 3:02:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By fp1201:
Originally Posted By 762DM:
Which would be fine if you could sign off on a rescue attempt should you fall overboard/ get caged/ get ejected from your vehicle. Unfortunately there is no means to do that and the response to try and save the dying stupid person is VERY expensive.


This is the neglected portion of the argument:
When you get hurt, lost, trapped, drown, et al... People have to go out and rescue you. This is expensive both in time and money.
Don't need no stink'n helmet; that's fine, I wish you a lifetime of good riding fortune, Hopefully I'll never have to scrape up what's left of your mellon after some retard pulls out in front of you and you go over the bars.
Good swimmer? How about fully clothed? or how about if you smack the water hard enough to get knocked out? Back to the time & money thing: got any idea what it costs to fly in a helicopter, or to mount a search & rescue/recovery? It's folks good nature to come out of the woodwork to help in times of need, but it needn't be needlessly.
You cannot and should not legislate "common sense" but you can bill for the lack there of.


You have your own answer in your post. If you need to be rescued and it's your fault, you should get stuck with the bill. I'll gladly pay $25,000 to be choppered off a mountain while backcountry skiing if I'm dumb enough to need that.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 3:02:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 3:04:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 3:20:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:


You have your own answer in your post. If you need to be rescued and it's your fault, you should get stuck with the bill. I'll gladly pay $25,000 to be choppered off a mountain while backcountry skiing if I'm dumb enough to need that.


You're in the 5% of the population that would and could pay it, most would never pay it and file bankruptcy. Just pointing it out, not that I'm in favor of this. What next, should I have to wear a bicycle helmet even if I'm riding on an old graded railroad path 20 feet wide with no motor vehicle traffic? How long til NY gets mandatory orange during hunting season?


No mandatory orange, they will just jack the prices so high nobody hunts.
Link Posted: 9/2/2009 4:03:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By 762DM:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:


You have your own answer in your post. If you need to be rescued and it's your fault, you should get stuck with the bill. I'll gladly pay $25,000 to be choppered off a mountain while backcountry skiing if I'm dumb enough to need that.


You're in the 5% of the population that would and could pay it, most would never pay it and file bankruptcy. Just pointing it out, not that I'm in favor of this. What next, should I have to wear a bicycle helmet even if I'm riding on an old graded railroad path 20 feet wide with no motor vehicle traffic? How long til NY gets mandatory orange during hunting season?


No mandatory orange, they will just jack are jacking the prices so high nobody will hunts.




Link Posted: 9/2/2009 7:18:56 PM EST
1. "In New York, 21 boaters died last year, four in the colder seasons, Keefe said. The 2007 total was the same, with six dying in colder months."

Uh, doh, 4 of 21....uh....I'm missin' sumthin. What exactly are we fixing? OK, I'm no retard, in those months it's a higher percentage of boaters. In fact, it's not boaters- it's sportsmen. So don't forget to buy your duckie camo extra big to fit over the PFD. And, don't forget to ask GOV if it's OK to have an auto-inflate or if you have to have a Type II, Type III, or Type IV.

2. Have you ever tried to stuff your butt into a DN with a lifejacket? No. You won't fit. Where is the exemption for ice boats?

3. Ha fargin har har. Anybody ever seen anybody except NYS DEC anywhere near the water in those months? No. And NYS DEC stays in the Jeeps. So who exactly is going to issue the ticket?

Another completely dumbass law that will have ZERO effect. Moooorooooons. Welcome to NYS where "waste is our rule"
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 7:57:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2009 7:59:13 AM EST by 45stops-em-quick]
It sucks, but my boats 23', so it doesn't affect me.

ETA––Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to be out on a boat smaller than 21' during some of those colder, much more windy months in the Hudson.
Link Posted: 9/3/2009 1:11:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By sherm8404:
And seriously, how the fvck is a life jacket going to prevent hypothermia when your 9/10th in the water anyways.

I submit it is merely a cost saving measure that makes bodies easier to find.


I believe this is the cold hard truth in the matter.
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 1:13:19 AM EST
You should just take the foam out and put lead inside the life jacket. That'll show those jerks in albany!
Link Posted: 9/4/2009 12:05:08 PM EST
EPIRBs Emergncy Positin Indicationg Radio Beacons are expensive, but you (or it) will be found just as quickly as the USCG can get to you...an hour or so in most areas around Long Island. A better investment might be an AED however. USCG won't send a helicopter for a confirmed cardiac arrest with CPR in progress, and you could be as far away as 2 hours by boat...good luck with that one. Talk about cold and dead...might as well be on Mars.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:14:33 AM EST
Not seeing the forest for the trees?
With a minimum fine of $100. and a maximum of $250. (and I'm sure there are "Court Costs" not mentioned) here's a great way to make more money for the State using a win-win scam: Set up a weekend detail on a popular lake/river, and just start handing out tickets....after all, it's for your own good.
IMHO if this was truly to be a benefit to the Boater, there would be an option to take a boater safety course or refresher to show the dangers....then again, this is Screw York.

Remember the "55 Saves Lives" campaign? Sure there's merit to the notion, but the ulterior motive was revenue enhancement. When it's all said and done what's a speeding ticket cost these days; 2-3-4 hundred dollars? [>://

I really don't have the answer...there are pluses to wearing helmets, PFD's, Seat Belts, et. al
You cannot legislate stupidity and shouldn't be allowed to apply prior restraint.
You can sue someone for your own ignorance, but cannot repay the costs to those who try their living best to save you when the worst happens.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 9:51:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:07:00 PM EST
Remember you need a NYS fishing license now as well
Recreational marine fishing license just another reason for then to stop you and do a vessel inspection and give you a fine.

MForo, where are you from and which Dept are you with ?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:53:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 12:57:09 AM EST by silveradoguy17]
Originally Posted By fp1201:
Originally Posted By 762DM:
Which would be fine if you could sign off on a rescue attempt should you fall overboard/ get caged/ get ejected from your vehicle. Unfortunately there is no means to do that and the response to try and save the dying stupid person is VERY expensive.


This is the neglected portion of the argument:
When you get hurt, lost, trapped, drown, et al... People have to go out and rescue you. This is expensive both in time and money.
Don't need no stink'n helmet; that's fine, I wish you a lifetime of good riding fortune, Hopefully I'll never have to scrape up what's left of your mellon after some retard pulls out in front of you and you go over the bars.
Good swimmer? How about fully clothed? or how about if you smack the water hard enough to get knocked out? Back to the time & money thing: got any idea what it costs to fly in a helicopter, or to mount a search & rescue/recovery? It's folks good nature to come out of the woodwork to help in times of need, but it needn't be needlessly.
You cannot and should not legislate "common sense" but you can bill for the lack there of.



this IS IF you get the "act of god" and GET a chopper in jeff county

ETA: if anyone thinks i am playing, ask fp, or any north country emt. the only way your gettin the SP chopper is IF its a clear day out, and no weather in like a 50 mile range
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