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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 11/16/2012 5:43:42 AM EST
than Texas with open cary.

Does the law permit open carry reciprocity, or restricted to OK licenses?

Can I open carry with my TX CHL ?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:39:03 AM EST
My legal expertise is limited to copying and pasting laws, but here is what our "new" carry law says:

SECTION 44. AMENDATORY 21 O.S. 2011, Section 1290.26, is amended to read as follows:

Section 1290.26.

RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY

The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state.

Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed or unconcealed carry upon the authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed or unconcealed firearm and license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must either be carried unconcealed or concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed or unconcealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state.


To me (who is still not a lawyer) "pursuant to" means OK only allows you to carry in the manner allowed by your Texas license.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:41:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 8:23:57 AM EST by LuckyDucky]
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:05:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 8:16:59 AM EST by maggiethecat]
Originally Posted By JustKeepSwimming:
My legal expertise is limited to copying and pasting laws, but here is what our "new" carry law says:

SECTION 44. AMENDATORY 21 O.S. 2011, Section 1290.26, is amended to read as follows:

Section 1290.26.

RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY

The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state.

Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed or unconcealed carry upon the authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed or unconcealed firearm and license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must either be carried unconcealed or concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed or unconcealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state.


To me (who is still not a lawyer) "pursuant to" means OK only allows you to carry in the manner allowed by your Texas license.


I can see it both ways. I'm going to contact the OK AG and ask for clarification on this. I will of course update this.

I left a messgae for Karen Gray in the "Official Opinions" divison. Hopefully she'll call back

I'm going to cross post this in legal section also.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:23:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 8:28:23 AM EST by LuckyDucky]
I'm wondering what the 2 different versions of the same statute deal is.

Both amendments were introduced the same day (2/6/12) but 1785 (adds Constitutional Carry states) was passed 8 days before 1733 (adds unconcealed to language).

So we have two amendments modifying a particular statute two different ways, passed at the same time. Which version controls? Do we just interpret them together? Do we use the latest passed one? Do we use the one that was passed first?

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:25:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By maggiethecat:
than Texas with open cary.

Does the law permit open carry reciprocity, or restricted to OK licenses?

Can I open carry with my TX CHL ?


Sure, go for it. Then when you get stopped on I-35, you can tell us if OK Highway Patrol are cooler than Texas state troopers.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:58:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 11:00:03 AM EST by Brandi]
I didn't even know we allowed Texans across the border. This is only slightly less disturbing then when I learned they let people from Arkansas across the border

P.S. Love the "Chasing Amy" title...great movie.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:41:34 PM EST
maggiethecat... fellow Devil Dog?

If so, Ill give you a libo pass
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 2:07:36 PM EST
Yes, I was born on the yellow footprints.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 2:16:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By maggiethecat:
Yes, I was born on the yellow footprints.




'rah
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 1:05:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Brandi:
I didn't even know we allowed Texans across the border. This is only slightly less disturbing then when I learned they let people from Arkansas across the border

P.S. Love the "Chasing Amy" title...great movie.


It's a recent thing. The federal .gov figured they werent enforcing the US southern border, so the state couldnt enforce their southern borders.

and yes, it IS a great movie.


MCRD San Diego 1 AUG 1995
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 7:35:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 7:36:46 AM EST by LuckyDucky]
Just to share with the OKie forum:

I found something on amendment interpretation.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=445716

It is, therefore, the official Opinion of the Attorney General that:

1. When two bills arising from the same legislative session are passed into law and address the same statute, the later-enacted statute controls if the two cannot be harmonized. Pickett v. Okla. Dep't of Human Serv., 932 P.2d 543, 545 (Okla. 1996).

2. Where there is an irreconcilable conflict between two statutes, the earlier provision will be repealed by the later one. City of Sand Springs v. Dep't of Pub. Welfare, 608 P.2d 1139, 1151 (Okla. 1980).


So it still depends on what a court says (i.e. do you want to be the test case?) but I would say if you have a permit at all, you can carry however you want, but if you are from a constitutional carry state, you can only carry concealed.

However, to be safe (i.e. if you don't want to be a test case), just carry concealed.

The most favorable interpretation would be that you can carry however you want if you have a permit or are from a constitutional carry state, but I'd be surprised if a court interpreted the amendments that way.

The least favorable interpretation would be to take the amendment adding the unconcealed language over the constitutional carry reciprocity amendment and then interpret the unconcealed language as applying ONLY to permits that allow BOTH concealed and unconcealed. Under this interpretation, only people with licenses allowing both concealed and unconcealed carry could carry in OK.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 11:35:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By maggiethecat:
Originally Posted By Brandi:
I didn't even know we allowed Texans across the border. This is only slightly less disturbing then when I learned they let people from Arkansas across the border

P.S. Love the "Chasing Amy" title...great movie.


It's a recent thing. The federal .gov figured they werent enforcing the US southern border, so the state couldnt enforce their southern borders.

and yes, it IS a great movie.


MCRD San Diego 1 AUG 1995


Old Corps huh? I was 1 June 2003

Still waiting on my damn Oakleys
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:30:50 AM EST
I just spoke with Karen Bray of the Oklahoma AG's office. She said I need to ask OSBI, and if they dont have the answer, they can request an Official Opinion from the AG.

Now I'm off to scour the OSBI site.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:55:32 AM EST
Asking oklahoma government officials questions and expecting a truthful or otherwise accurate answer is gonna be tough...good luck. I'm curious to hear how many times your referred to someone else....
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:16:21 AM EST
you might not even want to try this week with it being so close to a holiday. I bet a lot of people are taking the week off.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:22:27 AM EST
Evidently the only way to talk to a human at OSBI is for them to arrest you. I left messages with different people. We'll see how it goes.
I dont expect the process to be quick.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:00:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Brandi:
I didn't even know we allowed Texans across the border. This is only slightly less disturbing then when I learned they let people from Arkansas across the border


We do allow Texans in, but only if they can cross the state in an hour or less without getting pulled over by the Highway Patrol. Occasionally, they sneak in without anyone noticing and stay a while, though.

I'm still not sure why we let the Arkies in.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:48:27 AM EST
In typical OK fashion, I'm passed along yet again. I emailed OSBI, Said Keren Bray of the AG's office said to ask them.
this is their reply:

Good morning, Christopher.

As much as the OSBI would like to help you, the OSBI has no authority or jurisdiction to issue binding legal opinions regarding the state of the law in Oklahoma. The OSBI suggests that you contact private counsel of your own choice regarding this legal issue. If you would like to access the relevant reciprocity statute in the State of Oklahoma, you may do so by going to the OSBI website www.ok.gov/osbi and downloading the Self-Defense Act book. The reciprocity law is codified at 21 O.S. Section 1290.26.

Thank you.
Christine
OSBI SDA UNIT


Maybe I can file a suit requesting an opinion?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:02:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 7:02:54 AM EST by mcant20]
Originally Posted By maggiethecat:
In typical OK fashion, I'm passed along yet again. I emailed OSBI, Said Keren Bray of the AG's office said to ask them.
this is their reply:

Good morning, Christopher.

As much as the OSBI would like to help you, the OSBI has no authority or jurisdiction to issue binding legal opinions regarding the state of the law in Oklahoma. The OSBI suggests that you contact private counsel of your own choice regarding this legal issue. If you would like to access the relevant reciprocity statute in the State of Oklahoma, you may do so by going to the OSBI website www.ok.gov/osbi and downloading the Self-Defense Act book. The reciprocity law is codified at 21 O.S. Section 1290.26.

Thank you.
Christine
OSBI SDA UNIT


Maybe I can file a suit requesting an opinion?


Welcome to Oklahoma gov't. You'll get a similar response from the Oklahoma Attorney General I'm sure. Municipalities and district courts will make lots of money off of this open carry in the next year until the NRA or more likely the 2A.org gets the legislature to straighten up the vague confusing language. My father has already had two places he frequents put up no firearms signs because of his open carry.
Maybe some of the chicken littles will realize that open carry isn't causing all the gun fights they thought would happen.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:18:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 2:19:04 PM EST by maggiethecat]
Well, I did ask my liberal step dad who is an attorney in TX and OK, but only for his opinion on an interpretation of the statute. Here's his reply, which I'll edit to save bandwidth:

"The Oklahoma Legislature adopted two separate and conflicting versions of the reciprocity statute (pasted below), the latter of which appears to authorize the holder of a non-Oklahoma concealed carry permit to open carry. The first version plainly does not. I would GUESS that a court in the hypothetical event of an actual prosecution would reconcile both versions by finding that, whatever other difficulties the conflicting language presents in other respects, the intent of the Oklahoma Legislature was to authorize persons with out-of-state concealed carry permits to open carry in Oklahoma.


The Okla AG and OSBI would be especially cautious about inadvertently offering unauthorized opinions in the face of the statutory conflict, and I DO NOT think you should rely upon my suggested reconciliation favorable to open carry, above. There may be some valid basis for a different outcome than I am suggesting that I (or the AG or the OSBI) might not think of. Can't know what we don't know.

-Sir"

§21-1290.26v1. Reciprocal agreement authority.
RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY
The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state, or if the state is a nonpermitting carry state, this state shall reciprocate under the permitting law of that state.
A. Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed carry upon the authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed firearm and license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must be carried fully concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state.
B. Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed carry upon the authority of a state that is a nonpermitted carry state and the person is in compliance with the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, the person is authorized to carry a concealed firearm in this state. The firearm must be carried fully concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm pursuant to the nonpermitting laws of the state in which he or she is a legal resident. The person shall present proper identification by a valid photo ID as proof that he or she is a legal resident in such a non-permitting state. The Department of Public Safety shall keep a current list of non-permitting states for law enforcement officers to confirm that a state is nonpermitting.
C. Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a concealed handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state.
[1] Added by Laws 1996, c. 191, § 20, emerg. eff. May 16, 1996. Amended by Laws 1998, c. 286, § 7, eff. July 1, 1998; Laws 2003, c. 465, § 9, eff. July 1, 2003; Laws 2012, c. 195, § 1, eff. Nov. 1, 2012.
[2]
§21-1290.26v2. Reciprocal agreement authority.
RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY
The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state.
Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed or unconcealed carry upon the authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed or unconcealed firearm and license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must either be carried unconcealed or concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed or unconcealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state. Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 4:47:12 PM EST
I'm not even a lawyer yet and he said the same thing almost!

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