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Posted: 11/23/2013 3:58:13 PM EDT
http://tacfirecon.com/

Supposed cost is around 495.

Thoughts on this?

Link Posted: 11/23/2013 4:59:12 PM EDT
I looked for the patent on this and couldn't find it.  

I don't need to spend five bills to slap the trigger really fast.
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 5:00:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gtengineer02:
I looked for the patent on this and couldn't find it.  

I don't need to spend five bills to slap the trigger really fast.
View Quote



I think the trick here is not so much the bump fire as it has a select-able trigger pull.
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 5:13:51 PM EDT
They are $300 in FL (Naples and Tampa LGS anyway)
Friend bought one.
They feel like shit.
I was disappointed........... because I wanted one...... but the cheese was just too cheesy...... and I like cheese.

Slide Fire if I remember right.
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 5:14:16 PM EDT
A lot your very own GA shooters can already shoot that fast on stock stuff.

5 bills...

That's two Geisselles...

Or three CMCs...

Two or Three HiperFire....

Ammo...
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 5:15:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 400North:
They are $300 in FL (Naples and Tampa LGS anyway)
Friend bought one.
They feel like shit.
I was disappointed........... because I wanted one...... but the cheese was just too cheesy...... and I like cheese.

Slide Fire if I remember right.
View Quote


That's not the slide fire. It's a drop in trigger pack for the AR.
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 5:24:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue556:
A lot your very own GA shooters can already shoot that fast on stock stuff.

5 bills...

That's two Geisselles...

Or three CMCs...

Two or Three HiperFire....

Ammo...
View Quote


LOVE my Geisselle triggers.  Bill Geisselle is just an awesome person too.
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 6:01:00 PM EDT
I'd like to see a good independent review of it but for $500 I'm not interested no matter how cool it is.  If it does what I assume it does, $200-250 would sound fair.
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 6:32:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:


That's not the slide fire. It's a drop in trigger pack for the AR.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By 400North:
They are $300 in FL (Naples and Tampa LGS anyway)
Friend bought one.
They feel like shit.
I was disappointed........... because I wanted one...... but the cheese was just too cheesy...... and I like cheese.

Slide Fire if I remember right.


That's not the slide fire. It's a drop in trigger pack for the AR.


Hmmm. watching and reading is for dummies. Sorry. The slide fire still sucks unfortunately. This selectable trigger ...  is the operator pulling the trigger a single time or repeatedly or?
Link Posted: 11/23/2013 7:52:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 400North:


Hmmm. watching and reading is for dummies. Sorry. The slide fire still sucks unfortunately. This selectable trigger ...  is the operator pulling the trigger a single time or repeatedly or?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 400North:
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By 400North:
They are $300 in FL (Naples and Tampa LGS anyway)
Friend bought one.
They feel like shit.
I was disappointed........... because I wanted one...... but the cheese was just too cheesy...... and I like cheese.

Slide Fire if I remember right.


That's not the slide fire. It's a drop in trigger pack for the AR.


Hmmm. watching and reading is for dummies. Sorry. The slide fire still sucks unfortunately. This selectable trigger ...  is the operator pulling the trigger a single time or repeatedly or?


I believe it's essentially a bump fire trigger.  Squeeze once to fire.  The video had some slow-mo of the trigger/finger in action.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 4:32:01 AM EDT
I have no interest in a skirting the law fa trigger. Its only a matter of time before the ATF changes their mind on it, and starts knocking on doors.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 4:34:12 AM EDT
I have no interest.  For those who do I recommend you pay cash.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 4:46:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2013 4:46:59 AM EDT by robpiat]
I was thinking it might be simply a super low pull weight on the 3rd setting. Something generally unsafe.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 5:51:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By robpiat:
I was thinking it might be simply a super low pull weight on the 3rd setting. Something generally unsafe.
View Quote

Essentially I think you are correct. About one or two pounds...

Not something I'd want to walk around with in the third position but might be ok to switch to when ready to fire.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 5:56:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2013 5:56:44 AM EDT by feeling_infringed]
I was thinking the same thing.  During the slow motion section of the video it appears to be a super short pull and reset.  

Not much of a description on the website either.  Simply saying atf approved, non nfa isnt enough for many customers, myself included.  
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 6:00:24 AM EDT
I'd rather have one well placed shot, than spraying bullets willy nilly.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 6:16:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2013 6:17:51 AM EDT by p0p0k0pf]
The ATF has let products sell for months (and decades) before deciding you can't have it.  They'll probably politely come and ask for it back, and politely NOT offer you a refund.  These are products that they themselves have given exemptions or allowable clarifications on at the start.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 7:09:48 AM EDT
I had a broken trigger that did that once and didnt cost a dime. I dont see this passing the ATF checklist.
Link Posted: 11/24/2013 7:43:03 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:

Essentially I think you are correct. About one or two pounds...
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By robpiat:
I was thinking it might be simply a super low pull weight on the 3rd setting. Something generally unsafe.

Essentially I think you are correct. About one or two pounds...


The pull in both fire modes is 4.5lb.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:25:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 3:34:25 PM EDT by teufel_hunden]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
I was thinking the same thing.  During the slow motion section of the video it appears to be a super short pull and reset.  

Not much of a description on the website either.  Simply saying atf approved, non nfa isnt enough for many customers, myself included.  
View Quote


Boy, I really don't want many of you guys posting so far serving on any jury where I am the defendant! All the facts one needs are right in front for all to see on the website and video, but still there are statements or comparisons being made that are completely false or illogical. This is not another Bump Fire Stock and can't even be compared to one other then the fact that the Tac-Con is magnitudes in superiority to ANY bump stock.

First this is NOT a Slide Fire or Bumpski as it has absolutely nothing to do with the weapons stock or using stock recoil!

Second, the trigger pull is an identical 4.5 pounds of pull in Semi-Auto as well as in Mode 3.

Third, the trigger is NOT being slapped or jerked as in bump firing or hip firing were bullets get sprayed everywhere (mainly not on the target).

Fourth, it HAS been ATF approved as only being semi-automatic as it does not fit the definition of a machinegun or machinegun part. The trigger group requires the trigger to be pulled for EACH firing of a round.

Fifth, unlike bump firing where the weapons recoil is being used to cycle the trigger and causing jerking of the weapon (bullet spraying), the Tac-Con uses the BCG's energy to force the trigger forward resetting the sear and trigger ensuring it is semi-auto but since ones finger is already pulling back the weapon immediately fires again since there is another trigger pull. Directly from their product page, "The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™’s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight." As the video plainly showed, the shooter is repeatedly tapping the metal disk (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds). Try doing that with a Slide Fire. Ones shooting position does not change with a Tac-Con because the weapon's stock is not used to simulate rapid fire.

Sixth as to price, it is not a cheaply made Slide Fire that just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire. Tac-Con is a well made 4.5 pound trigger group that you would be paying $200 for a drop in trigger group anyway and then its less then the NFA Tax Stamp on a Class III (the Tac-Con is also tens of thousands less then the actual  NFA weapon itself to go with the Stamp). One ends up with a trigger group that more effectively simulates full auto firing (none of these devices match the cyclic rate of full auto) while still keeping a proper and controllable firing position.

The recap: Cost, about the price of a transfer stamp without the outrageous weapon cost of an NFA weapon (or all the paperwork, waiting, record keeping or reporting). One is also getting a 4.5 pound trigger group if they don't already have one. The firing position during Mode 3 is identical to the semi-automatic setting unlike the Bump Fire which requires the shooter to be forcefully pulling forward on the rifle. So considering it is legal for sale, to own, and install, the Tac-Con is superior to a Bump Fire Stock and includes a 4.5 pound trigger at less then the cost of a quality 4.5 pound trigger with a bump stock. Just saying it is outrageously priced without looking at what it actually does and what it replaces for its cost, is not looking at the big picture. One can't buy an AR for $500 much less a Class III AR .
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:31:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 12:45:51 PM EDT by jmarkma]
So how do you justify it costing 2.5x a Geisselle SD3G trigger which is considered the gold standard of fast triggers? There are plenty of videos out there of people running these at what seems to be a faster rpm than the Tac-Con. Also the mode of increasing the ROF seems to a mechanism of trigger slap, I've had an AK that also suffered from this same issue though I found shooting it would become uncomfortable in a short period of time. I'm wondering how the Tac-Con would compare? All in all I'd have a really hard time justifying the cost over a SD3G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVrN1kbKlvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOpTjycK90
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:43:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 4:44:39 PM EDT by dryvalleyboy]
teufel_hunden said:

/quote]

***bullets get sprayed everywhere*** (bullet spraying)*** (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds)*** just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire***
/quote]

I'm curious: does it not spray bullets everywhere?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:44:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jmarkma:
So how do you justify it costing 2.5x a Geisselle SD3G trigger which is considered the gold standard of fast triggers? There are plenty of videos out there of people running these at what seems to be a faster rpm than the Tac-Con. Also the mode of increasing the ROF seems to a mechanism of trigger slap, I've had an AK that also suffered from this same issue though I found shooting it would become uncomfortable in a short period of time. I'm wondering how the Tac-Con would compare? All in all I'd have a really hard time justifying the cost over a SD3G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVrN1kbKlvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOpTjycK90
View Quote


The two videos you linked are almost worthless. The first is a guy standing 5 feet from a target and jerking the trigger 30 times as fast as he can and he hardly hit any of the targets (same problem as a bump fire: quickly empty a mag with very little results). He is 5 feet away for crying out loud. The second video is a want-a-be firing either an SW M&P15 or an AR 22LR conversion again tapping the trigger as fast as he can 30 times to dump the magazine. Only reason he stays on target is its a 22LR not a 5.56 NATO round being fired! Not very impressive other then the rapid firing, not very useful in a tactical or life and death situation either. Also one would not be able to keep that up very long trigger finger wise and remain accurate, even for those that pull the trigger 2000 times during a weekend of paintball.

The reason for paying $500 is again what I said. Having the rifle act similar to an NFA during full auto fire, staying on the target, not changing ones shooting style between semi-auto or rapid fire, being able to hold the trigger down while aiming without repeatedly jerking the trigger to increase rate of fire, and on and on et al. Also part of their pricing structure is probably based on engineering it to work as advertised and pass ATF approval, it is going on expensive ARs (both ammo and rifles are expensive when compared to AKs), they have to make a profit, and with the crazy prices of bump stocks, it should be $500.

Nobody is forcing you to buy one. I don't know if you have a $600 base model AR or a $2500 Cadillac AR to base your push back to the price off of. Should they be giving them away after doing all the research, engineering, setup, production, approval, and marketing? Or should some of the price point be based on the fact its going on an AR and not an AK (disclaimer: I own several of both) . Looks like they did it correctly and used proper parts not the cheapest they could find that would get it to work enough to sell it. Another disclaimer: I personally have used the Slide Fire and I think its cheap and over priced as well as not very accurate. But that is my opinion and I will not buy a Slide Fire. If after firing a Tac-Con from just what I have seen, I would probably buy one if I wanted one. Again its about being able to hold the trigger down while accurately staying on target and not the price as far as I am concerned especially when I look at what they are trying to accomplish. An accurate decent rate of rapid fire without changing shooting style/position while only holding the trigger down and staying on target IE as close to mimicking a Class III without being an NFA rifle. Lastly, again for only $500 without the wait time, paperwork, expense, and hassle of an NFA rifle. Its not perfect and its not an NFA rifle, but its also only $500. Most people probably waste that much money in 6 months on junk and have nothing to show for it.

That is all I am trying to say. Some posts were making it out to be something it wasn't and comparing it to something it wasn't (bump fire). If it was for everybody, there would not be 50 different companies to buy an AR from or 200 to get parts from!
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:00:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 5:02:01 PM EDT by LaRue556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:


The two videos you linked are almost worthless. The first is a guy standing 5 feet from a target and jerking the trigger 30 times as fast as he can and he hardly hit any of the targets (same problem as a bump fire: quickly empty a mag with very little results). He is 5 feet away for crying out loud.
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Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:
Originally Posted By jmarkma:
So how do you justify it costing 2.5x a Geisselle SD3G trigger which is considered the gold standard of fast triggers? There are plenty of videos out there of people running these at what seems to be a faster rpm than the Tac-Con. Also the mode of increasing the ROF seems to a mechanism of trigger slap, I've had an AK that also suffered from this same issue though I found shooting it would become uncomfortable in a short period of time. I'm wondering how the Tac-Con would compare? All in all I'd have a really hard time justifying the cost over a SD3G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVrN1kbKlvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOpTjycK90


The two videos you linked are almost worthless. The first is a guy standing 5 feet from a target and jerking the trigger 30 times as fast as he can and he hardly hit any of the targets (same problem as a bump fire: quickly empty a mag with very little results). He is 5 feet away for crying out loud.



Do you..... understand what's going on in that video?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:13:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dryvalleyboy:
teufel_hunden said:

/quote]

***bullets get sprayed everywhere*** (bullet spraying)*** (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds)*** just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire***
/quote]

I'm curious: does it not spray bullets everywhere?
View Quote


Depends on ones definition of "Spraying Bullets". I don't just dump high capacity magazines to dump them. I fire as many controlled multiple burst from a high capacity magazine as I can while keeping as many bullets on target as I can, that I don't call spraying bullets. I call spraying bullets full mag dumps with a slide fire with 3 to 5 hits on the target out of 30. Somebody jerking the trigger as fast as they can with a semi-auto would probably have more hits on the target out of 30 then with spraying bullets. Spraying bullets for the sake of spraying bullets only keeps the heads down on rabbits and sheepeople.

I am more of a one shot one kill kind of guy anyway. I only practice tactical target shooting because one never knows when one might need that skill again. But the difference between a Slide Fire/Bump Fire and the Tac-Con seems to be Night and Day.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:35:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:


Depends on ones definition of "Spraying Bullets". I don't just dump high capacity magazines to dump them. I fire as many controlled multiple burst from a high capacity magazine as I can while keeping as many bullets on target as I can, that I don't call spraying bullets. I call spraying bullets full mag dumps with a slide fire with 3 to 5 hits on the target out of 30. Somebody jerking the trigger as fast as they can with a semi-auto would probably have more hits on the target out of 30 then with spraying bullets. Spraying bullets for the sake of spraying bullets only keeps the heads down on rabbits and sheepeople.

I am more of a one shot one kill kind of guy anyway. I only practice tactical target shooting because one never knows when one might need that skill again. But the difference between a Slide Fire/Bump Fire and the Tac-Con seems to be Night and Day.
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Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:
Originally Posted By dryvalleyboy:
teufel_hunden said:

/quote]

***bullets get sprayed everywhere*** (bullet spraying)*** (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds)*** just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire***
/quote]

I'm curious: does it not spray bullets everywhere?


Depends on ones definition of "Spraying Bullets". I don't just dump high capacity magazines to dump them. I fire as many controlled multiple burst from a high capacity magazine as I can while keeping as many bullets on target as I can, that I don't call spraying bullets. I call spraying bullets full mag dumps with a slide fire with 3 to 5 hits on the target out of 30. Somebody jerking the trigger as fast as they can with a semi-auto would probably have more hits on the target out of 30 then with spraying bullets. Spraying bullets for the sake of spraying bullets only keeps the heads down on rabbits and sheepeople.

I am more of a one shot one kill kind of guy anyway. I only practice tactical target shooting because one never knows when one might need that skill again. But the difference between a Slide Fire/Bump Fire and the Tac-Con seems to be Night and Day.


Just 2 more posts and you'll have posted as many times as you've said "spraying bullets".
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:51:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 10:52:11 AM EDT by m1garand30064]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:


Boy, I really don't want many of you guys posting so far serving on any jury where I am the defendant! All the facts one needs are right in front for all to see on the website and video, but still there are statements or comparisons being made that are completely false or illogical. This is not another Bump Fire Stock and can't even be compared to one other then the fact that the Tac-Con is magnitudes in superiority to ANY bump stock.

First this is NOT a Slide Fire or Bumpski as it has absolutely nothing to do with the weapons stock or using stock recoil!

Second, the trigger pull is an identical 4.5 pounds of pull in Semi-Auto as well as in Mode 3.

Third, the trigger is NOT being slapped or jerked as in bump firing or hip firing were bullets get sprayed everywhere (mainly not on the target).

Fourth, it HAS been ATF approved as only being semi-automatic as it does not fit the definition of a machinegun or machinegun part. The trigger group requires the trigger to be pulled for EACH firing of a round.

Fifth, unlike bump firing where the weapons recoil is being used to cycle the trigger and causing jerking of the weapon (bullet spraying), the Tac-Con uses the BCG's energy to force the trigger forward resetting the sear and trigger ensuring it is semi-auto but since ones finger is already pulling back the weapon immediately fires again since there is another trigger pull. Directly from their product page, "The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™’s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight." As the video plainly showed, the shooter is repeatedly tapping the metal disk (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds). Try doing that with a Slide Fire. Ones shooting position does not change with a Tac-Con because the weapon's stock is not used to simulate rapid fire.

Sixth as to price, it is not a cheaply made Slide Fire that just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire. Tac-Con is a well made 4.5 pound trigger group that you would be paying $200 for a drop in trigger group anyway and then its less then the NFA Tax Stamp on a Class III (the Tac-Con is also tens of thousands less then the actual  NFA weapon itself to go with the Stamp). One ends up with a trigger group that more effectively simulates full auto firing (none of these devices match the cyclic rate of full auto) while still keeping a proper and controllable firing position.

The recap: Cost, about the price of a transfer stamp without the outrageous weapon cost of an NFA weapon (or all the paperwork, waiting, record keeping or reporting). One is also getting a 4.5 pound trigger group if they don't already have one. The firing position during Mode 3 is identical to the semi-automatic setting unlike the Bump Fire which requires the shooter to be forcefully pulling forward on the rifle. So considering it is legal for sale, to own, and install, the Tac-Con is superior to a Bump Fire Stock and includes a 4.5 pound trigger at less then the cost of a quality 4.5 pound trigger with a bump stock. Just saying it is outrageously priced without looking at what it actually does and what it replaces for its cost, is not looking at the big picture. One can't buy an AR for $500 much less a Class III AR .
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Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
I was thinking the same thing.  During the slow motion section of the video it appears to be a super short pull and reset.  

Not much of a description on the website either.  Simply saying atf approved, non nfa isnt enough for many customers, myself included.  


Boy, I really don't want many of you guys posting so far serving on any jury where I am the defendant! All the facts one needs are right in front for all to see on the website and video, but still there are statements or comparisons being made that are completely false or illogical. This is not another Bump Fire Stock and can't even be compared to one other then the fact that the Tac-Con is magnitudes in superiority to ANY bump stock.

First this is NOT a Slide Fire or Bumpski as it has absolutely nothing to do with the weapons stock or using stock recoil!

Second, the trigger pull is an identical 4.5 pounds of pull in Semi-Auto as well as in Mode 3.

Third, the trigger is NOT being slapped or jerked as in bump firing or hip firing were bullets get sprayed everywhere (mainly not on the target).

Fourth, it HAS been ATF approved as only being semi-automatic as it does not fit the definition of a machinegun or machinegun part. The trigger group requires the trigger to be pulled for EACH firing of a round.

Fifth, unlike bump firing where the weapons recoil is being used to cycle the trigger and causing jerking of the weapon (bullet spraying), the Tac-Con uses the BCG's energy to force the trigger forward resetting the sear and trigger ensuring it is semi-auto but since ones finger is already pulling back the weapon immediately fires again since there is another trigger pull. Directly from their product page, "The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™’s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight." As the video plainly showed, the shooter is repeatedly tapping the metal disk (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds). Try doing that with a Slide Fire. Ones shooting position does not change with a Tac-Con because the weapon's stock is not used to simulate rapid fire.

Sixth as to price, it is not a cheaply made Slide Fire that just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire. Tac-Con is a well made 4.5 pound trigger group that you would be paying $200 for a drop in trigger group anyway and then its less then the NFA Tax Stamp on a Class III (the Tac-Con is also tens of thousands less then the actual  NFA weapon itself to go with the Stamp). One ends up with a trigger group that more effectively simulates full auto firing (none of these devices match the cyclic rate of full auto) while still keeping a proper and controllable firing position.

The recap: Cost, about the price of a transfer stamp without the outrageous weapon cost of an NFA weapon (or all the paperwork, waiting, record keeping or reporting). One is also getting a 4.5 pound trigger group if they don't already have one. The firing position during Mode 3 is identical to the semi-automatic setting unlike the Bump Fire which requires the shooter to be forcefully pulling forward on the rifle. So considering it is legal for sale, to own, and install, the Tac-Con is superior to a Bump Fire Stock and includes a 4.5 pound trigger at less then the cost of a quality 4.5 pound trigger with a bump stock. Just saying it is outrageously priced without looking at what it actually does and what it replaces for its cost, is not looking at the big picture. One can't buy an AR for $500 much less a Class III AR .


That is all fine and dandy, but we are not the jury.  You are relying on a schizophrenic government agency that can issue a ruling but then reverse it on a whim with no legitimate reason.  I wish you best of luck with the product, but I will say again to anyone who wants one; pay cash and leave no paper trail.

As for me there is no way I would drop $500 on one of these.  There is just way too much risk.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 6:03:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 6:04:44 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Slipey76:


View Quote




 


Link Posted: 12/9/2013 6:37:16 PM EDT
Post count, join date, blah blah.... yawn. Nope.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 7:03:26 PM EDT
A shoestring is considerably cheaper.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 10:05:42 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:


The two videos you linked are almost worthless. The first is a guy standing 5 feet from a target and jerking the trigger 30 times as fast as he can and he hardly hit any of the targets (same problem as a bump fire: quickly empty a mag with very little results). He is 5 feet away for crying out loud. The second video is a want-a-be firing either an SW M&P15 or an AR 22LR conversion again tapping the trigger as fast as he can 30 times to dump the magazine. Only reason he stays on target is its a 22LR not a 5.56 NATO round being fired! Not very impressive other then the rapid firing, not very useful in a tactical or life and death situation either. Also one would not be able to keep that up very long trigger finger wise and remain accurate, even for those that pull the trigger 2000 times during a weekend of paintball.

The reason for paying $500 is again what I said. Having the rifle act similar to an NFA during full auto fire, staying on the target, not changing ones shooting style between semi-auto or rapid fire, being able to hold the trigger down while aiming without repeatedly jerking the trigger to increase rate of fire, and on and on et al. Also part of their pricing structure is probably based on engineering it to work as advertised and pass ATF approval, it is going on expensive ARs (both ammo and rifles are expensive when compared to AKs), they have to make a profit, and with the crazy prices of bump stocks, it should be $500.

Nobody is forcing you to buy one. I don't know if you have a $600 base model AR or a $2500 Cadillac AR to base your push back to the price off of. Should they be giving them away after doing all the research, engineering, setup, production, approval, and marketing? Or should some of the price point be based on the fact its going on an AR and not an AK (disclaimer: I own several of both) . Looks like they did it correctly and used proper parts not the cheapest they could find that would get it to work enough to sell it. Another disclaimer: I personally have used the Slide Fire and I think its cheap and over priced as well as not very accurate. But that is my opinion and I will not buy a Slide Fire. If after firing a Tac-Con from just what I have seen, I would probably buy one if I wanted one. Again its about being able to hold the trigger down while accurately staying on target and not the price as far as I am concerned especially when I look at what they are trying to accomplish. An accurate decent rate of rapid fire without changing shooting style/position while only holding the trigger down and staying on target IE as close to mimicking a Class III without being an NFA rifle. Lastly, again for only $500 without the wait time, paperwork, expense, and hassle of an NFA rifle. Its not perfect and its not an NFA rifle, but its also only $500. Most people probably waste that much money in 6 months on junk and have nothing to show for it.

That is all I am trying to say. Some posts were making it out to be something it wasn't and comparing it to something it wasn't (bump fire). If it was for everybody, there would not be 50 different companies to buy an AR from or 200 to get parts from!
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Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:
Originally Posted By jmarkma:
So how do you justify it costing 2.5x a Geisselle SD3G trigger which is considered the gold standard of fast triggers? There are plenty of videos out there of people running these at what seems to be a faster rpm than the Tac-Con. Also the mode of increasing the ROF seems to a mechanism of trigger slap, I've had an AK that also suffered from this same issue though I found shooting it would become uncomfortable in a short period of time. I'm wondering how the Tac-Con would compare? All in all I'd have a really hard time justifying the cost over a SD3G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVrN1kbKlvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOpTjycK90


The two videos you linked are almost worthless. The first is a guy standing 5 feet from a target and jerking the trigger 30 times as fast as he can and he hardly hit any of the targets (same problem as a bump fire: quickly empty a mag with very little results). He is 5 feet away for crying out loud. The second video is a want-a-be firing either an SW M&P15 or an AR 22LR conversion again tapping the trigger as fast as he can 30 times to dump the magazine. Only reason he stays on target is its a 22LR not a 5.56 NATO round being fired! Not very impressive other then the rapid firing, not very useful in a tactical or life and death situation either. Also one would not be able to keep that up very long trigger finger wise and remain accurate, even for those that pull the trigger 2000 times during a weekend of paintball.

The reason for paying $500 is again what I said. Having the rifle act similar to an NFA during full auto fire, staying on the target, not changing ones shooting style between semi-auto or rapid fire, being able to hold the trigger down while aiming without repeatedly jerking the trigger to increase rate of fire, and on and on et al. Also part of their pricing structure is probably based on engineering it to work as advertised and pass ATF approval, it is going on expensive ARs (both ammo and rifles are expensive when compared to AKs), they have to make a profit, and with the crazy prices of bump stocks, it should be $500.

Nobody is forcing you to buy one. I don't know if you have a $600 base model AR or a $2500 Cadillac AR to base your push back to the price off of. Should they be giving them away after doing all the research, engineering, setup, production, approval, and marketing? Or should some of the price point be based on the fact its going on an AR and not an AK (disclaimer: I own several of both) . Looks like they did it correctly and used proper parts not the cheapest they could find that would get it to work enough to sell it. Another disclaimer: I personally have used the Slide Fire and I think its cheap and over priced as well as not very accurate. But that is my opinion and I will not buy a Slide Fire. If after firing a Tac-Con from just what I have seen, I would probably buy one if I wanted one. Again its about being able to hold the trigger down while accurately staying on target and not the price as far as I am concerned especially when I look at what they are trying to accomplish. An accurate decent rate of rapid fire without changing shooting style/position while only holding the trigger down and staying on target IE as close to mimicking a Class III without being an NFA rifle. Lastly, again for only $500 without the wait time, paperwork, expense, and hassle of an NFA rifle. Its not perfect and its not an NFA rifle, but its also only $500. Most people probably waste that much money in 6 months on junk and have nothing to show for it.

That is all I am trying to say. Some posts were making it out to be something it wasn't and comparing it to something it wasn't (bump fire). If it was for everybody, there would not be 50 different companies to buy an AR from or 200 to get parts from!


You have just outed yourself.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 11:13:07 AM EDT
So he is here shilling his product ?  I wonder is he would offer a package with the BeowulfX mount .?

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Link Posted: 12/10/2013 11:36:53 AM EDT
That guy...not affiliated with Tac-Con. I can PROMISE you that!

Tac-Con is a small group of guys all in AZ...except for the marketing guy in TX. And even the marketing guy knows more than THAT guy.

I've already "outed" myself in the main thread on this trigger as a friend of the company with no official ties. I can tell you....This guy aint one of them.

Travis Haley is the shizz btw. That was pretty fast in that video...possibly one of his fastest.
I wonder what he'd do with a Tac-Con 3MR.

As for the 2nd vid...I would like to see him do that with .223 or .556. I agree it should be faster...but like he said...he'd have to be further away to avoid possible ricochet and I'm betting he'd be less accurate. But what do I know? Maybe he's Travis Haley good. Doubting that though.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:37:13 PM EDT
I am gonna wait until norcal shows up and see what he says .

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Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:40:41 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By whiskerz:


I am gonna wait until norcal shows up and see what he says .



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Corporate Shills... everywhere...




Fucking '13ers.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 11:10:04 PM EDT
Read his posts with a Russian accent. It makes the shill a bit more interesting.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 1:02:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RamblinWreck:
Post count, join date, blah blah.... yawn. Nope.
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and dissertation on spraying bullets
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:53:22 AM EDT
Is anyone using the geissele s3g in the HTF?  I have been on the fence for about a year now... Love it, hate it, or overpriced little piece of metal?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:12:49 AM EDT
Shillzilla!

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Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:18:13 AM EDT
Anyone know what kind of shot to shot splits are being achieved with the tac-con?

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:25:11 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By earlwhytt:
Is anyone using the geissele s3g in the HTF?  I have been on the fence for about a year now... Love it, hate it, or overpriced little piece of metal?
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GlockFan here has one and it he loves it, i have shot it a couple of times, very nice in my untrained opinion
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:57:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 6:58:23 AM EDT by Spartikis]
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Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:


Boy, I really don't want many of you guys posting so far serving on any jury where I am the defendant! All the facts one needs are right in front for all to see on the website and video, but still there are statements or comparisons being made that are completely false or illogical. This is not another Bump Fire Stock and can't even be compared to one other then the fact that the Tac-Con is magnitudes in superiority to ANY bump stock.

First this is NOT a Slide Fire or Bumpski as it has absolutely nothing to do with the weapons stock or using stock recoil!

Second, the trigger pull is an identical 4.5 pounds of pull in Semi-Auto as well as in Mode 3.

Third, the trigger is NOT being slapped or jerked as in bump firing or hip firing were bullets get sprayed everywhere (mainly not on the target).

Fourth, it HAS been ATF approved as only being semi-automatic as it does not fit the definition of a machinegun or machinegun part. The trigger group requires the trigger to be pulled for EACH firing of a round.

Fifth, unlike bump firing where the weapons recoil is being used to cycle the trigger and causing jerking of the weapon (bullet spraying), the Tac-Con uses the BCG's energy to force the trigger forward resetting the sear and trigger ensuring it is semi-auto but since ones finger is already pulling back the weapon immediately fires again since there is another trigger pull. Directly from their product page, "The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™’s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight." As the video plainly showed, the shooter is repeatedly tapping the metal disk (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds). Try doing that with a Slide Fire. Ones shooting position does not change with a Tac-Con because the weapon's stock is not used to simulate rapid fire.

Sixth as to price, it is not a cheaply made Slide Fire that just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire. Tac-Con is a well made 4.5 pound trigger group that you would be paying $200 for a drop in trigger group anyway and then its less then the NFA Tax Stamp on a Class III (the Tac-Con is also tens of thousands less then the actual  NFA weapon itself to go with the Stamp). One ends up with a trigger group that more effectively simulates full auto firing (none of these devices match the cyclic rate of full auto) while still keeping a proper and controllable firing position.

The recap: Cost, about the price of a transfer stamp without the outrageous weapon cost of an NFA weapon (or all the paperwork, waiting, record keeping or reporting). One is also getting a 4.5 pound trigger group if they don't already have one. The firing position during Mode 3 is identical to the semi-automatic setting unlike the Bump Fire which requires the shooter to be forcefully pulling forward on the rifle. So considering it is legal for sale, to own, and install, the Tac-Con is superior to a Bump Fire Stock and includes a 4.5 pound trigger at less then the cost of a quality 4.5 pound trigger with a bump stock. Just saying it is outrageously priced without looking at what it actually does and what it replaces for its cost, is not looking at the big picture. One can't buy an AR for $500 much less a Class III AR .
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Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
I was thinking the same thing.  During the slow motion section of the video it appears to be a super short pull and reset.  

Not much of a description on the website either.  Simply saying atf approved, non nfa isnt enough for many customers, myself included.  


Boy, I really don't want many of you guys posting so far serving on any jury where I am the defendant! All the facts one needs are right in front for all to see on the website and video, but still there are statements or comparisons being made that are completely false or illogical. This is not another Bump Fire Stock and can't even be compared to one other then the fact that the Tac-Con is magnitudes in superiority to ANY bump stock.

First this is NOT a Slide Fire or Bumpski as it has absolutely nothing to do with the weapons stock or using stock recoil!

Second, the trigger pull is an identical 4.5 pounds of pull in Semi-Auto as well as in Mode 3.

Third, the trigger is NOT being slapped or jerked as in bump firing or hip firing were bullets get sprayed everywhere (mainly not on the target).

Fourth, it HAS been ATF approved as only being semi-automatic as it does not fit the definition of a machinegun or machinegun part. The trigger group requires the trigger to be pulled for EACH firing of a round.

Fifth, unlike bump firing where the weapons recoil is being used to cycle the trigger and causing jerking of the weapon (bullet spraying), the Tac-Con uses the BCG's energy to force the trigger forward resetting the sear and trigger ensuring it is semi-auto but since ones finger is already pulling back the weapon immediately fires again since there is another trigger pull. Directly from their product page, "The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™’s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight." As the video plainly showed, the shooter is repeatedly tapping the metal disk (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds). Try doing that with a Slide Fire. Ones shooting position does not change with a Tac-Con because the weapon's stock is not used to simulate rapid fire.

Sixth as to price, it is not a cheaply made Slide Fire that just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire. Tac-Con is a well made 4.5 pound trigger group that you would be paying $200 for a drop in trigger group anyway and then its less then the NFA Tax Stamp on a Class III (the Tac-Con is also tens of thousands less then the actual  NFA weapon itself to go with the Stamp). One ends up with a trigger group that more effectively simulates full auto firing (none of these devices match the cyclic rate of full auto) while still keeping a proper and controllable firing position.

The recap: Cost, about the price of a transfer stamp without the outrageous weapon cost of an NFA weapon (or all the paperwork, waiting, record keeping or reporting). One is also getting a 4.5 pound trigger group if they don't already have one. The firing position during Mode 3 is identical to the semi-automatic setting unlike the Bump Fire which requires the shooter to be forcefully pulling forward on the rifle. So considering it is legal for sale, to own, and install, the Tac-Con is superior to a Bump Fire Stock and includes a 4.5 pound trigger at less then the cost of a quality 4.5 pound trigger with a bump stock. Just saying it is outrageously priced without looking at what it actually does and what it replaces for its cost, is not looking at the big picture. One can't buy an AR for $500 much less a Class III AR .


Nice necro post...youre correcting everyones incorrect posts but if you had half a brain you would have looked at the date of their posts and realized when they made those posts the website literally just had a link to a youtube video, no info, no NFA letter, no preorder link, nothing, so people were discussing it and trying to guess how it worked, then you show up a month later and say "hey dumb people look at their website"
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:28:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TacticalBarbie:


and dissertation on spraying bullets
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Originally Posted By TacticalBarbie:
Originally Posted By RamblinWreck:
Post count, join date, blah blah.... yawn. Nope.


and dissertation on spraying bullets


Not to mention the "high capacity magazine" "one shot one kill" and "tactical target shooting."  
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:07:36 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By echofivekilo:


Not to mention the "high capacity magazine" "one shot one kill" and "tactical target shooting."  
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Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
Originally Posted By TacticalBarbie:
Originally Posted By RamblinWreck:
Post count, join date, blah blah.... yawn. Nope.


and dissertation on spraying bullets


Not to mention the "high capacity magazine" "one shot one kill" and "tactical target shooting."  

Didn't you know everybody is a sniper?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 2:00:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:


Nice necro post...youre correcting everyones incorrect posts but if you had half a brain you would have looked at the date of their posts and realized when they made those posts the website literally just had a link to a youtube video, no info, no NFA letter, no preorder link, nothing, so people were discussing it and trying to guess how it worked, then you show up a month later and say "hey dumb people look at their website"
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Originally Posted By teufel_hunden:
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
I was thinking the same thing.  During the slow motion section of the video it appears to be a super short pull and reset.  

Not much of a description on the website either.  Simply saying atf approved, non nfa isnt enough for many customers, myself included.  


Boy, I really don't want many of you guys posting so far serving on any jury where I am the defendant! All the facts one needs are right in front for all to see on the website and video, but still there are statements or comparisons being made that are completely false or illogical. This is not another Bump Fire Stock and can't even be compared to one other then the fact that the Tac-Con is magnitudes in superiority to ANY bump stock.

First this is NOT a Slide Fire or Bumpski as it has absolutely nothing to do with the weapons stock or using stock recoil!

Second, the trigger pull is an identical 4.5 pounds of pull in Semi-Auto as well as in Mode 3.

Third, the trigger is NOT being slapped or jerked as in bump firing or hip firing were bullets get sprayed everywhere (mainly not on the target).

Fourth, it HAS been ATF approved as only being semi-automatic as it does not fit the definition of a machinegun or machinegun part. The trigger group requires the trigger to be pulled for EACH firing of a round.

Fifth, unlike bump firing where the weapons recoil is being used to cycle the trigger and causing jerking of the weapon (bullet spraying), the Tac-Con uses the BCG's energy to force the trigger forward resetting the sear and trigger ensuring it is semi-auto but since ones finger is already pulling back the weapon immediately fires again since there is another trigger pull. Directly from their product page, "The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™’s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight." As the video plainly showed, the shooter is repeatedly tapping the metal disk (not spraying all around it hitting it every once in a while out of 30 rounds). Try doing that with a Slide Fire. Ones shooting position does not change with a Tac-Con because the weapon's stock is not used to simulate rapid fire.

Sixth as to price, it is not a cheaply made Slide Fire that just sprays bullets all over the place imitating uncontrolled full auto fire. Tac-Con is a well made 4.5 pound trigger group that you would be paying $200 for a drop in trigger group anyway and then its less then the NFA Tax Stamp on a Class III (the Tac-Con is also tens of thousands less then the actual  NFA weapon itself to go with the Stamp). One ends up with a trigger group that more effectively simulates full auto firing (none of these devices match the cyclic rate of full auto) while still keeping a proper and controllable firing position.

The recap: Cost, about the price of a transfer stamp without the outrageous weapon cost of an NFA weapon (or all the paperwork, waiting, record keeping or reporting). One is also getting a 4.5 pound trigger group if they don't already have one. The firing position during Mode 3 is identical to the semi-automatic setting unlike the Bump Fire which requires the shooter to be forcefully pulling forward on the rifle. So considering it is legal for sale, to own, and install, the Tac-Con is superior to a Bump Fire Stock and includes a 4.5 pound trigger at less then the cost of a quality 4.5 pound trigger with a bump stock. Just saying it is outrageously priced without looking at what it actually does and what it replaces for its cost, is not looking at the big picture. One can't buy an AR for $500 much less a Class III AR .


Nice necro post...youre correcting everyones incorrect posts but if you had half a brain you would have looked at the date of their posts and realized when they made those posts the website literally just had a link to a youtube video, no info, no NFA letter, no preorder link, nothing, so people were discussing it and trying to guess how it worked, then you show up a month later and say "hey dumb people look at their website"


I didn't think the website gave that descriptive sentence or two when I first saw the site, lol.  

On another note TH likes to diminish the comparison to bump firing.  Even after the trigger function was explained a comparison can easily be made to bump firing because the trigger is assisting you in pulling the trigger faster than you'd otherwise be capable of doing.  

I will go and read that ATF letter b/c I'm curious, but that does't mean they won't send another later 2 yrs from now saying something totally different.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:39:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:

Didn't you know everybody is a sniper?
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Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
Originally Posted By TacticalBarbie:
Originally Posted By RamblinWreck:
Post count, join date, blah blah.... yawn. Nope.


and dissertation on spraying bullets


Not to mention the "high capacity magazine" "one shot one kill" and "tactical target shooting."  

Didn't you know everybody is a sniper?


Well of course I am. I wore a ghillie suit once
what ever happened to "new member intros" 13ers keep popping up like the whack-a-mole
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:19:54 PM EDT
Hmmm.....



Might have to put this in line. After a Sd3g and a Hiperfire.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:04:19 AM EDT

Interesting.

So basically the 'system' adds a mechanism to use the bolt being fully forward to push the trigger back out even if the finger is trying to pull it to the rear.
This is a mechanical connection or is it inertia-based?

Kind of irritating since when I talked to tech branch ages ago about doing the same thing using an electronic device in the PG they were all 'Wall-of-NO' for me.   Maybe making it mechanical was less confusing for them.

So can I put the safety sears back in my FALs now as long as I rig them to cam the trigger instead of the sear?  It would be the exact same thing and would arguably make the weapon a lot safer to operate.

Honestly if ATF is OK with this then it's actually not that hard to do internal to any escapement as long as you can find a way to get a bolt/carrier operated cam to the trigger.  I'd like to see the letter.

It is taking 'trigger-slap' and doing something useful with it.  I applaud the effort/design, but for the price it must be some pretty convoluted mechanism, which means it could be fragile.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:13:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 8:13:58 AM EDT by feeling_infringed]
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