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Posted: 7/9/2005 12:53:50 PM EDT
I thought I would post this. Does anyone else have problems with the fees and rules here or is it just me? And will anyone actualy go here???


Bulls Eye Marksman Gun Club
Range Fees

Hourly Range Fees:
Half Hour - $12.50 Second Shooter $6.00
Hourly - $20.00 Second Shooter $8.00

**Rental Hand Guns - Pricing will be posted at a later date.

Bulls Eye Marksman Gun Club
Range Safety Rules

No one is allowed on the range under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.
No loaded firearms are to enter or exit the building. All magazines and speed loaders must be unloaded. Load firearms at the firing line only. No firearms are permitted in the store area without being in a locked container. Firearms may be inspected at the check-in counter at the request of Bulls Eye Marksman’s staff. Any firearms or ammunition found to be unsafe or unserviceable will not be allowed on the range.
All Handguns, rifles and shotguns are subject to approval.
Two shooters are allowed per lane. No spectators allowed in the shooting bay. All persons entering the range will be charged accordingly.
Eye and Ear protection must be worn at all times on the range.
Unauthorized targets are not permitted on the range. Minimum size for targets is 24" X 21". Shooting at anything other than your own target is strictly prohibited.
No head shots for in experienced shooters. Shots must be a minimum of 15 inches below the target hangers.
Wearing or drawing from holster is not permitted.
The muzzle of all firearms must be kept pointed down rage at all times. If leaving the range temporarily, leave all firearms on the firing line unloaded with the action open and the muzzle pointed down rage.
All firearms must arrive and leave the shooting station bench in a case, basket, etc. No uncased firearms may leave the shooting station bench.
If a misfire or other malfunction occurs, keep the firearm pointed down range ans signal the range staff. Place the firearm on the bench pointed down range, and obtain assistance. DO NOT leave the firing line with a loaded or jammed firearm.
All ammunition is subject to inspection ans approval.
Allowable calibers are: Handguns, any handgun up to 1300 foot pounds (S&W 500 can be used on rifle lane) Rifles up to 460 mag 8100 foot pound at the muzzle, Shotguns all gauges, buckshot, slugs and bird shot (Shotguns to be fired from the shoulder only).
NO Aluminum or Steel Cased Ammunition - NO Steel Core Ammunition
Bulls Eye Marksman LLC and Staff shall not be held liable for any damage incurred from use of ammunition. Customer will resolve any issue with the manufacturer of the product.
No fast or rapid firing allowed. Allow at least 3 seconds between shots. Any hazardous behavior WILL RESULT IN IMMEDIATE DISMISSAL FROM THE PREMISES. Comply with all instructions from the range staff.
Report any unsafe conduct to the range staff immediately.
Any brass being removed from the range must be marked. Please notify cashier during check-in.
Any violation of RANGE safety rules will result in IMMEDIATE REPRIMAND and possible DISMISSAL from the range.
There will be no refunds of any kind for parties expelled from the range for safety violations.

Link Posted: 7/9/2005 12:54:52 PM EDT
I wouldnt go
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 12:55:50 PM EDT
I cant think why anyone would want to.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 12:56:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A-Train:
I cant think why anyone would want to.



If you dont have another choice I quess
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 1:00:14 PM EDT
Plenty of choices in Atlanta though. Wonder how long they will actualy stay in business
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 1:02:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A-Train:
Plenty of choices in Atlanta though. Wonder how long they will actualy stay in business




There always seems to be people that go to places regardless of how bad thier prices, choices, service or anything else is.

See it at gunstores, and all kinds of other businesses.

Link Posted: 7/9/2005 2:15:43 PM EDT
A lot of times rules like that are posted to make the insurance company happy,even though they may not be enforced.
I got a laugh out of this:
All firearms must arrive and leave the shooting station bench in a case, basket, etc.
Basket????? They forgot poke sack,lunch pail,flour sack,and tote bag!
As for the no steel cored ammo,I understand that since they play hades on the backstops,plus the sparks could light off a fire (or worse) in the finely powdered metal residue in the filters.
The no steel or aluminum case ammo is because the obviously want to resell the range brass,hence:
Any brass being removed from the range must be marked. Please notify cashier during check-in.
And the non reloadable stuff is only good for scrap metal .

Wearing or drawing from holster is not permitted.
Well,okay,I don't want to be around someone who is
"professional enough to handle a Glock 40",but it would be nice if there was some leeway on that.And most indoor ranges are a little too cramped for novice holster practice anyway.
Same goes for this:
No fast or rapid firing allowed. Allow at least 3 seconds between shots. Any hazardous behavior WILL RESULT IN IMMEDIATE DISMISSAL FROM THE PREMISES. Comply with all instructions from the range staff.
Seems to me that if there actually are some range officers present,that rapid fire could be allowed if the shooter was qualified to handle his gun.
Maybe a probationary peroid to see if you can safely handle a gun,and if not,be sent for some training before you are allowed full privledges to the range?

I have thought about a range when I quit doing the machine shop gig,and there is a lot to have to protect yourself and your customers from.I have to spend too much time now protecting myself from my customers and protecting them from themselves.

My thoughts are that the long time locals will go shoot on Granpa's farma fter they see the fees.
Recent arrivals that are regular shooters will probably balk at the rest of the rules,and go elsewhere.
So that only leaves casual shooters that may only shoot once or twice a year,so I hope they have something else to make money lined up.
And I expect their gun and ammo prices will scare off alot of people too.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 2:27:17 PM EDT
I had an e-mail dialog with the owner of the range. Thomsondd had sent me a link to their rules and prices, and we had a few chuckles. I live in Lawrenceville so I will probably never visit this range. Since I live to stir the pot, I sent the guy a bit of a flamer e-mail to see what kind of a reaction I would get. After stirring a bit, the owner seems to be a pretty good guy. His response was very courteous, and addressed some of my concerns.

That's my $.02 take it for what it's worth.

As usual in an e-mail chain, you gotta read from bottom to top. If I lived in the Cumming area, I might give them a "shot" (excuse the pun).

From: "Bulls Eye Marksman" <bullseyemarksman@bellsouth.net Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book
To: my_email_address
Subject: Re: Are you serious?
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:09:30 -0400

I hope you do, have a good weekend.

Doug Clayton

Bulls Eye Marksman Gun Club
6190 Parkway North Drive
Cumming, GA 30040
www.bullseyemarksman.com
404-310-2822
----- Original Message -----
From: my_email_address
To: "Bulls Eye Marksman" <bullseyemarksman@bellsouth.net
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Are you serious?

That sounds reasonable. It's a shame that we have to
base so many decisions upon our lawyer's and insurance
rep's advice.

Next time I go into one of the other ranges, I'll look
and see what their posted rules are. They might be
similar, but just not enforced.

I might just take you up on the walk through.

Regards,

Me

--- Bulls Eye Marksman
<bullseyemarksman@bellsouth.net wrote:

Thanks we think it will be.

I agree with you, I carry and have a permit as wel and being new in business we are on the safe side. Your point is well taken, it is hard to know who has or don't have a valid permit and in
reviewing our rules with the county and our insurance companies they suggested that we assume that everyone does not have a valid permit. In the future I have plans (partly based on your comments) to add language to the rules to say, "Except those in possession of a valid Ga, firearms permit."

That may not change your mind today but please stop by for a walk through of the range to get a feel for the facility when you get a chance.

Doug Clayton
Bulls Eye Marksman Gun Club
6190 Parkway North Drive
Cumming, GA 30040
www.bullseyemarksman.com
404-310-2822

----- Original Message -----
From: my_email_address
To: "Bulls Eye Marksman"
<bullseyemarksman@bellsouth.net
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Are you serious?

Doug,

Thanks for your reply.

I understand that you have to make general rules that apply to everyone, and that the rules are intended to keep everyone safe. I've been in gun ranges and have seen people doing unsafe things because they are careless, or simply not knowledgeable. I enjoy shooting, but would like to avoid being shot, so I appreciate safety rules.

I'm curious why you would not allow people with a valid GA firearms permit to carry concealed in and out of your facility. I carry concealed all the time, and I don't like having to remove my weapon in a car to put it in a range bag or a carry container. It could be considered brandishing by anybody passing by, and it is also dangerous due to the possibility of an accidental/negligent discharge.

I respect your right not to allow people to carry on your property. In cases such as this, I choose to do business elsewhere. My opinion is that I have been fingerprinted and passed an extensive background check, so I should not be considered a threat to any business.

I presume your business is new, so I wish you good luck with it. It looks like a great facility.

Regards,

Me

--- Bulls Eye Marksman
<bullseyemarksman@bellsouth.net wrote:

Birdbarian,

I am sorry that the rules we have put in place are not agreeable. We believe that we will have a great facility with features that will not be found in your standard range. Our rules regarding loaded weapons have been put in place for every ones protection, not all of our customers have the
same care and experience. If Customers are using a range bag to carry their weapons that is good enough for me as well. I would hope that you would stop by and meet us before you make your decision not to do business with us. Our goal is to provide a safe location for all skill levels.

I do appreciate you comments and will consider them in future revisions of
our rules to accommodate our customers that are permitted to carry a weapon.

Doug Clayton
Bulls Eye Marksman Gun Club
6190 Parkway North Drive
Cumming, GA 30040
www.bullseyemarksman.com
404-310-2822
----- Original Message -----
From: my_email_address
To: <info@bullseyemarksman.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Are you serious?

Just read your fees and rules. Yikes! Don't think I'll be visiting your store or range any time soon. Your range fees are almost twice as much as your competitors, but this is what really cracks me up:

"No loaded firearms are to enter or exit the building. All magazines and speed loaders must be unloaded. Load firearms at the firing line only. No firearms are permitted in the store area without being in a locked container."

Are you serious? I will never, ever do business with a gun store or range that does not allow me to carry concealed (w/ valid GA firearm permit)into
their facility.

Looks like you have a nice new facility. Good luck.

Regards,

Me
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 6:42:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2005 6:43:00 PM EDT by the_reject]
Yabbut, $20 an hour? With ACM in the metro area, that's fucking ridiculous... ACM is a good 20-25 minute drive from me through thick traffic, whereas this place would be a 15-20 minute drive tops up GA-400 northbound. When I first heard this place was opening, I was thinking it would be awesome (I don't give a shit about travel times, I just fucking hate traffic) to have a place "up the road" from me. But $20 an hour, unloaded firearms, and all the other bullshit?

Just not worth it. Feels like my wallet is beeing fucked raw while I'm being treated like a criminal.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 7:08:11 PM EDT
Exactly where is this place??? There address shows up as a goose egg on all the search engines.

$20/hour is steep. Its a new range, but man! I pay $100/yr for an outdoor range with 2 pistol ranges, a 100 yard rifle, 300 yard rifle and a shotgun range with automated clays for the price of the clays. To be honest I get more out of training in the rain, sleet and cold there than I would slow-fire 3-second shooting in a climate-controlled range.

I know the guy has a business to attend to, and I'll probably frequent there during lunch. But there needs to be some flex in the rules.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 12:29:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By the_reject:
Yabbut, $20 an hour? With ACM in the metro area, that's fucking ridiculous... ACM is a good 20-25 minute drive from me through thick traffic, whereas this place would be a 15-20 minute drive tops up GA-400 northbound. When I first heard this place was opening, I was thinking it would be awesome (I don't give a shit about travel times, I just fucking hate traffic) to have a place "up the road" from me. But $20 an hour, unloaded firearms, and all the other bullshit?

Just not worth it. Feels like my wallet is beeing fucked raw while I'm being treated like a criminal.



The price is one of the things he didn't address to me, and I didn't press the issue. I usually go to Bullseye in L'ville because its close. I prefer ACM too. Good people there and a nice facility to boot.

I'm guessing there are no other ranges convenient to the Cumming area, maybe that's why he's priced it the way he has. I'm sure building, equiping and stocking a new facility ain't cheap either. It'll be interesting to see how long he stays in business. If he goes out, we'll have to pool our money and have the GA Arfcom Shooting range and Guns store. That'd be a bit scarry.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 8:16:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2005 8:18:37 AM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By JoeWang:
Exactly where is this place??? There address shows up as a goose egg on all the search engines.

$20/hour is steep. Its a new range, but man! I pay $100/yr for an outdoor range with 2 pistol ranges, a 100 yard rifle, 300 yard rifle and a shotgun range with automated clays for the price of the clays. To be honest I get more out of training in the rain, sleet and cold there than I would slow-fire 3-second shooting in a climate-controlled range.

I know the guy has a business to attend to, and I'll probably frequent there during lunch. But there needs to be some flex in the rules.



JoeWang -

The new range is right off Bethelview, in between GA400 and Castleberry (west side of GA400 and exit 13). I posted a link to the new range along with a Yahoo map in the GA ranges thread that is tacked


I WAS excited to have somewhere closer to my house to go shoot. I live withing minutes of this place. Please note, WAS as in past tense. I doubt I will ever go now that I have seen the rules and pricing. I would probably drive right past it on the way to Norcross (ACM) or L'ville (Bullseye) or to one of the DNR ranges.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 8:58:47 AM EDT
Thompsondd,

Its too bad that they have to be that way cause that would be a bit closer to me than ACM. I like ACM alot though and just the $ part of that range makes it 3 times more expensive than ACM. I'm very disapointed with that, I was looking forward to going there when it opened.

We should hook up sometime and shoot at ACM when you get the chance.
I'm a poor soul that my wife is in Brazil for 3 months so I have alot of spare time when I'm not working
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 9:27:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By birdbarian:
The price is one of the things he didn't address to me, and I didn't press the issue. I usually go to Bullseye in L'ville because its close. I prefer ACM too. Good people there and a nice facility to boot.



What indoor range allows you to enter and exit with a loaded firearm? Certainly not ACM. Just because you have a CCW does not mean you are a safe gun handler. Every indoor range I've been in is a "cold" range. Break that rule at your own risk of expulsion and banning.

I find the listed rules for the range to some extent prohibitive to what I would look for in a range. Certain the price of shooting is way high. I think they will realize that eventually if they are lucky to survive.

Also, what difference does it make if customers use aluminum or steel cased ammo? One can only assume that the range collects and resells the brass and doesn't want to have to sort out the stuff.

Link Posted: 7/10/2005 11:07:04 AM EDT
Mayo, its not really the fact that you cant walk in the place with a loaded gun, I never do with ACM either, but normaly I have my gun on my hip or in my hand in a holster, not LOCKED in a case. Thats the part of that rule I didnt like, I dont even own a lockable case for my guns. All soft cases.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 12:42:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A-Train:
Mayo, its not really the fact that you cant walk in the place with a loaded gun, I never do with ACM either, but normaly I have my gun on my hip or in my hand in a holster, not LOCKED in a case. Thats the part of that rule I didnt like, I dont even own a lockable case for my guns. All soft cases.



I believe Bullseye has a sign on the door that says "No loaded weapons". I just remove the mag and unchamber the round (personal defense ammo) while in the car and walk in. I use different mags for target ammo which I don't normally get out of the bag until I am inside the range anyway, so the loaded gun thing isn't that big of a deal for me. I understand the point however.

The bigger deal for me is getting raped at the register. This guy is $$$$. I wouldn't take but a couple of hours, whether in one trip or spread out over several visits, before I could pay for a year membership somewhere else.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 12:53:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 1:01:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if they enforce those rules as written, are that anal about ammo, and don't reduce their prices they will be out of business in 2 years tops.



couldn't have said it better myself.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 7:30:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2005 7:30:36 PM EDT by Mayo]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if they enforce those rules as written, are that anal about ammo, and don't reduce their prices they will be out of business in 2 years tops.



No argument there. They will either adapt or go away.

Keep an eye on the property values.

Link Posted: 7/12/2005 1:39:58 PM EDT
I don't know about their prices being too high. Ed's in Marietta is a hole and charges $14/hr and it's packed on the weekend.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 2:23:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2005 2:24:41 PM EDT by A-Train]
Dont even look at gun prices at Ed's too, you'll have a heart attack and wont make it out to the parking lot, and if you do buy a gun from Ed's you payed WAY too much. Ed's is so over priced its not even funny. Last I was there one guy was trying to sell me a used POS Sig P225 for like $800 I got my P229 for almost half of that and in perfect factory restored condition elsewhere with 2 barrels.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 2:59:15 PM EDT
My overall point is that a super-clean, well-ventilated range and safe range may be worth $20 to a segment of the shooting community. Ed's charges $14/hr and I don't personally consider it clean, well-ventilated or safe and its still full on the weekends.
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 3:04:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 4:09:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
the indoor range we had here <went under when the owner absconded with the money and ran> was doing good business at 6.00 per hour range fees. 20.00 per hour is a flat out ripoff.



I won't pay $20/hr either. But I'm betting there are many who will. Cumming is the middle of BF Forsyth Co. You used be able shoot on your land but not if you just bought a $300k house on a 1/4 in a subdivision.

Don't hate the guy for trying to make a buck. Its a mostly free country, shoot elsewhere.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 12:47:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2005 12:48:38 PM EDT by birdbarian]

Originally Posted By Mayo:

Originally Posted By birdbarian:
The price is one of the things he didn't address to me, and I didn't press the issue. I usually go to Bullseye in L'ville because its close. I prefer ACM too. Good people there and a nice facility to boot.



What indoor range allows you to enter and exit with a loaded firearm? Certainly not ACM. Just because you have a CCW does not mean you are a safe gun handler. Every indoor range I've been in is a "cold" range. Break that rule at your own risk of expulsion and banning.

I find the listed rules for the range to some extent prohibitive to what I would look for in a range. Certain the price of shooting is way high. I think they will realize that eventually if they are lucky to survive.

Also, what difference does it make if customers use aluminum or steel cased ammo? One can only assume that the range collects and resells the brass and doesn't want to have to sort out the stuff.




Only times I've gone to ACM was straight from work, so I guess I never carried concealed there, and I do recall seeing the sign on the door.

Never noticed the signs at Bullseye. I've carried concealed there many times. Never really thought about it.

A locked container is pure BS.

It'll be interesting to see how long they stay in business or how they adjust. Free market woo hoo!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:37:18 PM EDT
I just checked the place out.

They've got pistol and rifle. Rifle up to 460. They're using a water trap system so there is virtually no lead dust from the bullet impact, plus a lot of forced air moving down range.

1 year unlimited membership is $300, which is on par with places in Cobb.

The range opens Sept 1 (call before you make the drive, none of the stalls were up when I was there )
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:08:50 PM EDT
I have never had problems with a ranges rules. Their place their right. If it was close and I wanted to shoot I would go.
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