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Posted: 1/23/2009 11:22:05 PM EDT




Link Posted: 1/24/2009 3:04:05 AM EDT
[#1]
At first look it appears it might be.  

center-fire, semi-auto, capable of accepting a detachable magazine, NO thumbhole or protruding hand grip.  If that's a muzzle-break and NOT a flash-suppressor, it appears to be good to go.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 3:41:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Threaded barrel???
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 9:02:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Threaded barrel???


are 100% legal in California.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 9:23:51 AM EDT
[#4]
I read that prototype supposedly take standard AR uppers (presumably with a modified bolt carrier of some kind since it doesn't have a conventional buffer tube).  As such the only thing you'd need to worry about as PaDanby said is to avoid flash hiders and not attach a forward vertical grip to it.

BTW, yes you could put a bullet button or mag lock on it and add more evil features, but then there would be no point, you might as well go with a regular AR build.  The point of this system is that it allows a "conventional" grip (straight rifle stock) rifle with an AR upper and for CA you don't run afoul of the AWB regs.  (vs. using a monsterman grip or a U-15 stock on a regular AR lower)
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 9:48:56 AM EDT
[#5]
This looks to be an adapation of Calgunner Mud's & 50Freak's "Blackstar" concept.

They were having trouble finding machine shop time to build lowers & special small parts at a cost-effective price.

Plus, the whole OLL craze kinda cut into demand.

I'm betting they use a shortened bolt carrier and some kind of 'rat tail' spring/buffer system in the stock a la the FAL.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 11:51:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Threaded barrel???


are 100% legal in California.


Except for semi-auto handguns
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 3:26:25 PM EDT
[#7]
looks like an American SKS kinda thing ?
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 3:55:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Threaded barrel???


are 100% legal on rifles in California.


Except for semi-auto handguns


Fixed.

Swap the flash suppressor for a muzzle brake and it's CA legal.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 4:01:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Threaded barrels are ONLY an issue on semi-automatic handgun WITH a removable magazine.

They are not regulated on ANY rifle.
They are not regulated on ANY handgun that is single shot or with a fixed and/or internal magazine.
They are not regulated on non-semi-auto handguns.

ETA: And Bill, I wonder if they are just taking an approach similar to the ZM Weapons system, or the OA93 pistol style carrier but with a Atchisson style recoil assembly. I never understood why Mudd never took that approach instead of using a rat tail style design. The rat tail just seems like too much work for something that doesn't need to be.

I also DISLIKE that design for one reason: It appears to use a proprietary fire control group. That makes me think it's going to be AWFUL feeling and will further reduce the amount of standard parts you can use.

If you ask me, featuerless is a much better build compared to that thing. But to each their own.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 4:50:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Retro AR with B16 is way to go (M4GERY=HAYSEED)
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:44:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Retro AR with B16 is way to go (M4GERY=HAYSEED)


But then you are stuck with 10 round mags. If you want detachable mags and over 10 rounds you would have to use the MM grip or something like that which doesn't offer the greatest ergos. Then there are some people that still want to avoid the whole evil assualt rifle looking rifles so something like that may fill a need.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 9:25:19 PM EDT
[#12]
I guess they are produced by Ares, same people that are ? producing the Shrike.  Probably expensive and backordered.
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 11:05:25 AM EDT
[#13]
NeoWeird wrote:
....And Bill, I wonder if they are just taking an approach similar to the ZM Weapons
system, or the OA93 pistol style carrier but with a Atchisson style recoil assembly.

I never understood why Mudd never took that approach instead of using a rat tail style
design. The rat tail just seems like too much work for something that doesn't need to be.


I think any maker would be silly to not allow standard AR uppers to work.  People buy ARs for an eye to the future w/flexibility/compatibility.  

For the Blackstar, as I understood it  (I've actually handled some Blackstar prototypes, and one of the pictures has my upper/scope on it)  the rat-tail system parts and interrelationships and cut-down bolt carrier were cheaper/easier to mfg & to work into a Remington buttstoc than by use of other parts combinations.

Mudd actually uses his in competition. (Helluva nice/sharp guy, too.)

NeoWeird wrote:
I also DISLIKE that design for one reason: It appears to use a proprietary fire control
group.  That makes me think it's going to be AWFUL feeling and will further reduce the
amount of standard parts you can use.


As I recall, the only proprietary FCG part was the trigger - hammer/disco/springs/pins etc are stock milspec ones.



NeoWeird wrote:
If you ask me, featuerless is a much better build compared to that thing. But to each
their own.


Yes, but that's for CA, and today.  A coupla years ago was different.  The whole OLL thing has made a ton of progress in 3 years and LE agencies generally understand "there are these weird ARs that aren't AWs because they have special doohickeys on 'em".  Every range in CA every weekend seems to be populated with OLL rifles.  CA NRA membership has shot up.

However, other states with weird laws on semiauto rifles (NY, MD, MA - and perhaps (upcoming) DC)  may not have as good of a regulatory law setup as CA has and no Harrott decision, so this could sufficiently get around "AR-ness" and be akin to M1As and Mini14s.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA    




Link Posted: 1/26/2009 11:09:43 AM EDT
[#14]
i THINK IT WOULD LOOK SHARP IN WOOD FURNITURE !
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 12:37:12 PM EDT
[#15]
I have two OLL type semi-autos and I wouldn't mind having one like that.  I think it might be fun to shoot.
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 7:50:04 PM EDT
[#16]
I want one!   I wish they kept the magwell a little longer though.  The machined trigger guard looks nice compared to previous ideas.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 11:25:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Looks like an AR-M14
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 11:30:14 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Looks like an AR-M14


Ditto ! (M14/SKS/AR cross) imagine with some sweet blond wood furniture ...
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 12:48:54 PM EDT
[#19]
It would be interesting to use the modified recoil setup from this in a standard lower with a side folder stock (like the Spikes 22LR).

I know it would have to be out of state or on RAW/featureless builds, but just spitballing ideas.  
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 1:11:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
It would be interesting to use the modified recoil setup from this in a standard lower with a side folder stock (like the Spikes 22LR).

I know it would have to be out of state or on RAW/featureless builds, but just spitballing ideas.  


Um, then a big rat tail would be hanging out.
I believe there's a FAL-like rattail projecting down into the buttstock.

Link Posted: 1/27/2009 3:03:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It would be interesting to use the modified recoil setup from this in a standard lower with a side folder stock (like the Spikes 22LR).

I know it would have to be out of state or on RAW/featureless builds, but just spitballing ideas.  


Um, then a big rat tail would be hanging out.
I believe there's a FAL-like rattail projecting down into the buttstock.




OK.  
From the pics it looked like maybe they came up with an internal recoil spring and new BCG that didn't actually exit the rear of the receiver.

In the words of Emily Latilla..."Never mind."  
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