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Posted: 2/26/2010 4:26:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Insane. Just really insane.
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Posted: 2/26/2010 4:47:44 PM EDT
[#2]
NJ taxes =operating expenses of government cronies+pension and benfits of elected officials+excessive salaries of elected officials+sweetheart contracts with built in bribes to elected officials+the little bit left for the people
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Posted: 2/26/2010 6:43:22 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm in my current house since 2000 - my property tax has doubled in the last 10 years (100% increase). My salary has increased 16% in this time frame...I wish I had the blank checks our politicos have to write every year
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Posted: 2/26/2010 7:26:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I wish I had the blank checks our politicos have to write every year it is going to get worse, as these same idiots keep making financial commitments that are not currently and can never be backed up... http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_pension_chris_christie_stat.html ar-jedi |
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Posted: 2/26/2010 7:40:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Built my house in 1986 and my taxes were $800.00
Fast forward to 2010 and know they are 5k. 
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Posted: 2/27/2010 12:02:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Organized Law Enforcement has existed in Keyport since 1850, when the town had a town marshal/constable who was assigned to patrol the business district and wharf area's. The Keyport Police Department has officially existed since December 13,1926. The Department currently consists of 19 Police Officers, 4 full time Communications Operators, 2 Support Staff a number of part time Class II Special Police Officers, Communications Operators and our School Crossing Guards. The Department is is presently headed by a Chief of Police, there are two Lieutenants, a Detective Sergeant, four Patrol Sergeants, ten Patrol Officer's and a Detective.
Is this particular Force responsible for just a 1.4 square mile area 
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Posted: 2/27/2010 4:36:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Is this particular Force responsible for just a 1.4 square mile area yes. (!) and there are literally hundreds of examples of this. there is so much overhead when a tiny town has their own municipal services. many of these towns should be, from law enforcement and other perspectives, annexed with surrounding larger towns. the burden on the taxpayers is too large otherwise, and is growing. it would be a heck of a lot simpler and cheaper to add two cars and 4 patrol officers to a larger neighboring town. contrast with the Nassau County PD out on LI. one county, one police department, many precincts. one town bordering with Keyport is Hazlet (5.7 sq mi), which has a separate PD that employs 48 people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazlet,_New_Jersey another town bordering with Keyport is Union Beach (1.9 sq mi), again they have an independent PD that employs 27. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Beach,_NJ in short, in (1.4+5.7+1.9) = 9 square miles there are about (25+48+27) = 100 people employed by the police department –– which (by my estimate) includes about 75 patrol officers (i used the keyport ratio of 19 PO's out of 25 total, = 76%). ar-jedi |
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Posted: 2/27/2010 5:52:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is this particular Force responsible for just a 1.4 square mile area yes. (!) and there are literally hundreds of examples of this. there is so much overhead when a tiny town has their own municipal services. many of these towns should be, from law enforcement and other perspectives, annexed with surrounding larger towns. the burden on the taxpayers is too large otherwise, and is growing. it would be a heck of a lot simpler and cheaper to add two cars and 4 patrol officers to a larger neighboring town. contrast with the Nassau County PD out on LI. one county, one police department, many precincts. one town bordering with Keyport is Hazlet (5.7 sq mi), which has a separate PD that employs 48 people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazlet,_New_Jersey another town bordering with Keyport is Union Beach (1.9 sq mi), again they have an independent PD that employs 27. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Beach,_NJ in short, in (1.4+5.7+1.9) = 9 square miles there are about (25+48+27) = 100 people employed by the police department –– which (by my estimate) includes about 75 patrol officers (i used the keyport ratio of 19 PO's out of 25 total, = 76%). ar-jedi Like Lugerman said, Insane. 
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Posted: 2/27/2010 6:04:42 AM EDT
[#9]
AR-Jedi,
You may be right in the specific instance, but the issue isn't so much the municipality or county in most circumstances. Look at your tax bill. It should break down like this: 1/3 Municipality & County 1/3 Elementary School 1/3 High School 2/3's of the tax bill are from schools. That translates to the bloat of teachers and the NJ Extortion Association. The schools and school administrators are bleeding us. Should we consolidate services across the board like corporate america has... hell yeah... but the biggest bang on our tax bill is from schools. Just my 2 cents. |
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Posted: 2/27/2010 7:38:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Good luck they tried to consolidate Medford Lakes police (2 sq miles) with Medford the Medford police said they could do it no problem, the taxpayers would save an average of $1000.00 a year on there property taxes.The people were outraged put supportive yard signs up and all but lynched the mayor just for proposing this. Needless to say they kept there police. (and there very high taxes)
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Posted: 2/27/2010 7:46:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
The people were union was outraged put supportive yard signs up and all but lynched the mayor just for proposing this. fixed for you. 
ar-jedi |
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Posted: 2/27/2010 7:48:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Thanks im sure your correct.
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Posted: 2/27/2010 9:48:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Is this more the fault of towns and school boards or trenton's fault?
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Posted: 2/27/2010 12:29:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
AR-Jedi, You may be right in the specific instance, but the issue isn't so much the municipality or county in most circumstances. Look at your tax bill. It should break down like this: 1/3 Municipality & County 1/3 Elementary School 1/3 High School 2/3's of the tax bill are from schools. That translates to the bloat of teachers and the NJ Extortion Association. The schools and school administrators are bleeding us. Should we consolidate services across the board like corporate america has... hell yeah... but the biggest bang on our tax bill is from schools. Just my 2 cents. If you are not in an Abbot District, it's usually more Like 50% to the BoE, 25-30% to the county, and the remaining portion to the Town. We sat down and worked out the numbers a few years ago, and out of an average $10,000 tax bill (LOT of multiple Families where I work which skews the property tax average upwards) The TOTAL cost out of that for the Police and Fire Budget was just over $500.00. 118 Police Officers, 3 secretaries, 99 Firefighters, and THEIR 2 secretaries, and the crossing guards, along with Operating Costs and factored overtime. For a Population of 50K residential, and probably another 35L during the day for the industrial area. |
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Posted: 2/27/2010 12:59:28 PM EDT
[#15]
My tax bill in Morris County:
County $979 Local $1977 Local Open Space $77 School $5734 
County Open Space $164 Fire $88 Total $9,000 |
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Posted: 2/27/2010 2:58:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
My tax bill in Morris County: County $979 Local $1977 Local Open Space $77 School $5734
County Open Space $164 Fire $88 Total $9,000 Damn, Your School Tax is higher than the Total of all of our taxes 
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Posted: 2/27/2010 7:12:12 PM EDT
[#17]
this is going to happen in more and more towns... http://www.app.com/article/20100227/NEWS/2270317/1070/NEWS02&source=rss ar-jedi |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 4:34:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Gov. Christie has already started the cuts to the schools budgets. Pennsauken HS has had 8 million cut from the budget. theyre lining up the teachers now to see who stays and who goes. the sad part is the average salary at that school for a teacher is $45,000. Hardly robbing anyone blind, imho a modest salary. Its the union big wigs and administrators that cash in and the teachers take the fall. just my 2 cents.
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Posted: 2/28/2010 5:24:49 AM EDT
[#19]
It's always the people who actually do the real work who take it on the chin. If you dont pay teachers a decent wage your going to get retards graduating from school, because that is what your going to have teaching your kids. I think Christy has a personal vendetta against the NJEA.(and he schould) but I dont think teachers in NJ are over paid.
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Posted: 2/28/2010 5:38:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Since my wife is a teacher , I KNOW they arent overpaid. but i do agree that the taxes to feed this system are ridiculous. I see my wife wake up at 4:45 am every morning so she can be at work at 6:30. she comes home after shes done helping the kids who want to do better after school, around 3:45. And then she works from 7:30 at night until 9:30 when she cant keep her eyes open grading papers and trying to e-mail parents and get them to participate. Its sad. i wouldnt do all of the work she does for that salary. everyone always thinks the teachers have a great gig, and yes they have a good schedule as far as summers off, but the money isnt there to live like a shiek. Now when you look at the administrators and thier six figure salaries i can see where it adds up. My wife doesnt have tenure, and she also doesnt believe in it, so she is one of many teachers on the chopping block.
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Posted: 2/28/2010 5:50:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Gov. Christie has already started the cuts to the schools budgets. Pennsauken HS has had 8 million cut from the budget. theyre lining up the teachers now to see who stays and who goes. the sad part is the average salary at that school for a teacher is $45,000. Hardly robbing anyone blind, imho a modest salary. Its the union big wigs and administrators that cash in and the teachers take the fall. just my 2 cents.
Johnnyrock, she needs a new district, in my town they get $68,000 and aren't worth much of it. HurricaineAllie loves school, she does extra work, she has trouble spelling, they only teach them phonetic spelling, as for math, they jump around so much, they still use fuzzy math, and then there are the idiots that let kids bully, and tell the victims to just be friends as they give the bully cookies. I just heard that they are only allowed to give so many detentions to the bad kids, guess they don't want to hurt their feelings. A friend's sister teachers there and is so frustrated. And the worst ones are the administators, any teacher that is worth it is unhappy and pushed out |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 6:07:09 AM EDT
[#22]
i know what you mean Wind, my wife has kids whose reading level is below my second grade son's. i see what my kids are taught here in Collingswood and I question the methods of the math they teach as well. If we honestly want our children and thier peers to succeed we need to educate as well, if not better, than we were taught. My wife's problem is she actually likes being there in a struggling district because she wants to help the kids there. The sad truth is there is no easy fix, and a lot of people will suffer no matter what is done. We can only hope that the ends truly justify the means, whatever they are.
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Posted: 2/28/2010 10:57:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Since my wife is a teacher , I KNOW they arent overpaid. but i do agree that the taxes to feed this system are ridiculous. I see my wife wake up at 4:45 am every morning so she can be at work at 6:30. she comes home after shes done helping the kids who want to do better after school, around 3:45. And then she works from 7:30 at night until 9:30 when she cant keep her eyes open grading papers and trying to e-mail parents and get them to participate. Its sad. i wouldnt do all of the work she does for that salary. everyone always thinks the teachers have a great gig, and yes they have a good schedule as far as summers off, but the money isnt there to live like a shiek. Now when you look at the administrators and thier six figure salaries i can see where it adds up. My wife doesnt have tenure, and she also doesnt believe in it, so she is one of many teachers on the chopping block. yet her school probably has 5-7 Administrators making welll over 100K per year....depending on the size, nevermind the "District office" and so on... |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 10:58:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Lori teaches in a Abbot area and when the school runs out of toilet and copy paper, paper towels all by November I wonder who is getting the money. Not the teachers. Her pay is less than already mentioned and her raise last year, ZERO, NADA! Next years raise, don't hold your breath.
Parents are drug dealers, 'street walkers', or not even there. They child may live with a grand parent, aunt or in one case an older sister. However many of the Spanish speaking students parents are PISSED if the kid does not do well. In the middle of class if Lori calls a Spanish speaking parent and tells the parent Juan or Mary is not doing the work the parents chews out the kid right then and there on Lori's phone in Spanish faster than Lori can understand it. Yes, Lori is fluent in Spanish too. Anyhow, who is getting the money, the school administration first. I just wish Lori could find a school system that places a value on education but there are no openings. Maxwell |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 5:33:02 PM EDT
[#25]
ps:
from a Greece-based business colleague of a friend... Greece feels pretty odd at the moment. One has a sense of hunkering down, waiting for the serious stuff to hit. Shops are closing, people with their own businesses look worried, strikes are a constant and one is just grateful there is no sign of anything more nasty but the affluent elite live as if nothing has changed. Its very hard to see how they are going to get out of this mess. The idea of taking a pension cut for some, or of paying taxes for others is a complete anathema. We all dodge the system. Its virtually impossible not to. For example, we are in the middle of building work and keep asking the contractor how much social security we are meant to be paying for the workers and he looks vague and doesnt know and says: "poof, dont worry' and so what more can we do, short of getting in touch with some scary bureaucratic organisation which itself is riddled with corruption, has no clear rules and which will probably charge you way more than the correct amount out of sheer incompetence. will this scenario repeat in NJ? |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 5:46:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Is this more the fault of towns and school boards or trenton's fault? "yes". basically, there is a bottom-to-top inability to balance a budget and no backbone to say "no". what has not hit yet is that when the state is bankrupt, all of the contracts that the state/counties/towns had with the police, fire, teachers, etc are going to be vacated. we can't pay for pensions already committed to, and state bankruptcy is going to reset that. the folks depending on some large future pension are going to be very surprised by this, but it has been coming for years and the budget gap problem is now growing exponentially. and taxes can not be raised further; increasing real estate, income, or sales taxes will just increase the rate at which businesses and wealthy individuals are already leaving the state of NJ. please don't suggest that the federal government would step in and lend the state money to get a footing below the currently underfunded pensions. this is the worst possible scenario for a million reasons, not the least of which it means your federal tax dollars could and would be used to prop up underfunded pensions in other states as well. for example, in California. and, if my federal tax dollars are going to be funding other states –– well, i want a vote in that state to determine how my money gets spent. why the hell would i want to be paying into something that i don't have even the semblance of a say in? remember the whole taxation-without-representation deal? so, no, as a state we do not want federal bail-out money, that is a knife that cuts many ways and all of them are bad. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 5:46:25 PM EDT
[#27]
whoops, double tap. |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 6:08:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
AR-Jedi, You may be right in the specific instance, but the issue isn't so much the municipality or county in most circumstances. Look at your tax bill. It should break down like this: 1/3 Municipality & County 1/3 Elementary School 1/3 High School 2/3's of the tax bill are from schools. That translates to the bloat of teachers and the NJ Extortion Association. The schools and school administrators are bleeding us. Should we consolidate services across the board like corporate america has... hell yeah... but the biggest bang on our tax bill is from schools. Just my 2 cents. If you are not in an Abbot District, it's usually more Like 50% to the BoE, 25-30% to the county, and the remaining portion to the Town. We sat down and worked out the numbers a few years ago, and out of an average $10,000 tax bill (LOT of multiple Families where I work which skews the property tax average upwards) The TOTAL cost out of that for the Police and Fire Budget was just over $500.00. 118 Police Officers, 3 secretaries, 99 Firefighters, and THEIR 2 secretaries, and the crossing guards, along with Operating Costs and factored overtime. For a Population of 50K residential, and probably another 35L during the day for the industrial area. I'm not in an Abbott District, and I've checked with others in other municipalities. My personal breakdown is: 36% - Municipal & County 32% - Elementary / District 31% - High School / Regional Now for a rant. I've read the comments and yes.. teachers are underpaid in a lot of circumstances, but they still get pensions and a giant benefits package. The other point is if you want to make money... you don't become a teacher. I'm self-employed and I have to fund my own retirement. I bust my ass to provide for my family, pay my freakin' taxes and essentially have the gov't redistribute MY wealth to the poor helpless lazy-assed slobs that either have no desire or no capacity to make their own way. I'm not sorry to say... this i's crap. This isn't the way our founding fathers intended our country and state to end up. Sure they may have been the "elite", but there was opportunity for others to succeed and not have their wealth given to someone else. I take that chance by myself and I should get to reap the rewards by myself. Rant off. |
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Posted: 2/28/2010 6:09:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Ooops
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Posted: 2/28/2010 6:11:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Oops
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Posted: 3/1/2010 2:49:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Now for a rant. I've read the comments and yes.. teachers are underpaid in a lot of circumstances, but they still get pensions and a giant benefits package. The other point is if you want to make money... you don't become a teacher. I'm self-employed and I have to fund my own retirement. I bust my ass to provide for my family, pay my freakin' taxes and essentially have the gov't redistribute MY wealth to the poor helpless lazy-assed slobs that either have no desire or no capacity to make their own way. I'm not sorry to say... this i's crap. This isn't the way our founding fathers intended our country and state to end up. Sure they may have been the "elite", but there was opportunity for others to succeed and not have their wealth given to someone else. I take that chance by myself and I should get to reap the rewards by myself. Rant off. I cant speak for anyone else, but my wife didnt become a teacher to "make money". Does that mean she shouldnt be able to support herself and be kept at a low income( which i dont believe she is). The benefits package is not as great as you may have heard. And did i mention that as a teacher, if youre hurt on the job, or maybe attacked by a student, you dont have any disability insurance that you as a private employer are required to pay for your emloyees. Look, I am the first one to tell my wife and anyone else that the situation has to change, its not working and will only lead to a collapse of the current system. I too am self employed and provide for my own retirement. the only point i was trying to make was, yes the school taxes are ridiculous, but it isnt going to the teachers. And its the teachers who will feel the sting in the end, and in turn your children if you have any. |
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Posted: 3/1/2010 4:26:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Look, I am the first one to tell my wife and anyone else that the situation has to change, its not working and will only lead to a collapse of the current system. I too am self employed and provide for my own retirement. the only point i was trying to make was, yes the school taxes are ridiculous, but it isnt going to the teachers. And its the teachers who will feel the sting in the end, and in turn your children if you have any. I understand, and yes it sucks that it doesn't go to the teachers. It sucks more that they'll pay the price. That's why I had originally commented about the NJEA and school administrators. Christie should break the Union. He should change the pension system for state employees. As you know, shit happens. Promises are broken every day. Whoever commented earlier that we're broke, hit the nail on the head. Fundamental changes must happen in the way we operate as a state. Stop the pensions for new hires, grandfather those who are already in the system if you want to be fair. Can anyone name any large employers that still offer pensions? They just don't work. Here's a novel concept... make pensions subject to annual performance reviews. Make people perform, or get out. STOP THE INSANITY OF ENTITLEMENTS. Its the attitude of entitlement that's leading to the breakdown of the state and country. The only thing we're owed, are our rights detailed in the constitution. |
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Posted: 3/1/2010 5:26:59 AM EDT
[#33]
true, we are not entitled to anything. correct, we need fundmental change. Yes the pension system is stupid and unsustainable. Now, we cut the school budgets to save taxpayer dollars, good move. where do those cuts trickle down to? I am not saying dont cut the budgets, but where does the end of that fall? obviously money saved is money saved, but where does the school apply those budget cuts at thier level? This is something we all need to know as taxpayers, where exactly are our dollars spent. when we cut the budget where do those cuts apply? Is the sports program being terminated? are after school activities being cut? Maybe by some grace of God the NJEA has decided to cut the benefits package that has gotten an overinflated reputation( yeah right)? the cuts will fall on the teachers. And it will not be the most deserving workers keep thier jobs, it will be the teachers who have tenure or pull in the union. Now, i dont know where you live or the student to teacher ratio at your schools, but here its avering 35 students to one teacher. Now lose a few thousand teachers and you have a huge problem with overcrowded under educated classrooms, because one teacher in a class of fifty or more teenagers is not accomplishing shit! Yes break the unions. And also keep in mind that it used to be private sector for money and public work for benefits and pensions. Things have gotten skewed. we all know that. and lets not forget even more unemployed in our state when the hatchet falls. there are valid arguments on both sides of this, but the reduction of qualified teachers in our schools that are all struggling is not going to be the golden answer. okay, i must now get down of off my soap box. have a good day.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 3:56:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
This is something we all need to know as taxpayers, where exactly are our dollars spent. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/monmouth_couny_pays_336_employ.html MONMOUTH COUNTY –– More than one out of every 10 county employees here is paid more than $100,000 per year, in some cases boosted by overtime pay, according to a report in The Asbury Park Press. The report said 336 employees got six figures in 2009, up from 319 in 2008 and $11.6 million in overtime pay played a role in some of the paychecks. The two highest-paid employees were corrections officers at $186,000. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:03:50 AM EDT
[#35]
contrast, the disciplined approach in Denmark... http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/88-national/48460-public-employees-must-repay-pay-rises.html For the first time in 50 years raises in the public sector exceeded those of the private, meaning public sector employees must pay the extra money back Hundreds of thousands of public employees who were given pay hikes two years ago are now being told they will have to pay the money back to their employers, reports business news website epn.dk. ... Although the wage adjustment is meant to keep public employees’ salaries somewhat commensurate with increases in the private sector, an over-payment has never before occurred since the procedure was implemented 50 years ago. According to the agreement, public employees’ wages should have been lowered on 1 October by a full percent. Instead, the small increases that had been planned for 1 April will be cancelled or postponed. But that move will not be enough to cover the total overpayment, so public employees will still end up having to pay back extra money to their employers. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 5:17:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
this is going to happen in more and more towns... http://www.app.com/article/20100227/NEWS/2270317/1070/NEWS02&source=rss http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/atlantic_city_could_layoff_20.html ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:24:04 AM EDT
[#37]
stock up on food water and ammo, the end is coming.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 1:10:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Simple our taxes go to Bribes, jobs for cronies, and finally the expense of running the community....guess which is the smallest amount?
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Posted: 3/10/2010 5:26:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Simple our taxes go to Bribes, jobs for cronies, and finally the expense of running the community....guess which is the smallest amount? it's worse than we think –– some NJ STATE PUBLICLY FUNDED organizations are using TAX MONEY to LOBBY the state!!! http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/nj_public_entities_spent_more.html N.J. public entities spent more than $2M to lobby state government in past year TRENTON –– From small-town school boards to large independent authorities, public entities in New Jersey spent at least $2.1 million to lobby state government in 2009, according to reports released today. The spending by other levels of government to lobby state government came as annual lobbying data released by the Election Law Enforcement Commission showed a record $56.4 million was spent to sway lawmakers and administration officials. Boards, commissions and local governments are under increased scrutiny by Gov. Chris Christie, who has goaded them to spend wisely during a tight budget year. “There are better things for towns to spend their money on than lobbying us,” Christie spokesman Mike Drewniak said. “The budget is what it is. In these times, lobbying us seems like a bit of a futile effort. There are other ways to do that through representative government.” W.T.F. ? ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/11/2010 3:08:12 AM EDT
[#40]
i would file lobbying under the bribes column in nj. and now that the governer is cutting state aid to all communities, get ready for the property tax increase. Face it guys, it looks good, but where does the money always come from? i also dont think it was wise for christie to cut state aid to hospitals and the like that was being matched by federal dollars. I know its all taxpayer money, but it just doesnt make sense on a local level to increase the burden. i guess i just dont understand the logic.
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