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9/23/2020 3:47:02 PM
Posted: 3/30/2008 5:45:14 PM EDT
This question is on both magazines and stocks.

In order to make a pinned stock or magazine legal in NY, does it need to be pinned to the point that it can be unpinned, but require tools(ie takes a wrench to remove a bolt) or does it need to be permanent(silver solder or spot weld the nut onto the bolt)

I am asking cause I am thinking of getting a GSG5 and I hear its easy to pin the mags by putting a bolt through the back to block the follower going any lower after 10 rounds.

Also I am looking at one of the folding skeleton stocks that are available and am thinking of drilling and droping a bolt through there as well...


And unrelated, I know we are not allowed to transport loaded magazines in a vehicle.  What about if they are not accessible from the cab.(I have a truck, rifle will be in cab, mags in bed).

Is that OK or not???
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 2:30:46 AM EDT
Since when can you not have a loaded mag in your car??  Have I been ignorantly breaking the law for many years???
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 8:20:43 AM EDT
Only applies to rifles.  I believe the law reads you cannot have a loaded rifle in your vehicle.  The definition of loaded includes a loaded detachable magazine....

Unless I am reading the law wrong....
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 8:41:46 AM EDT
The law says that you cannot have a rifle or shotgun, "loaded in chamber or magazine."

Some say this means that you cannot have a loaded magazine, but I don't think so.

I think the law is very clear.  "Loaded in chamber" means there is a round in the chamber, and "loaded in magazine" means mag in the weapon, but empty chamber.

The law against this is a hunting regulation, designed to keep people from hunting from motor vehicles, and to me, the definition I posted makes perfect sense.
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 8:42:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2008 8:43:48 AM EDT by rkbar15]
The law states you cannot have a loaded rifle/shotgun in or upon a MV unless it is "unloaded in both chamber and magazine". The law says nothing about transporting charged detachable clips or magazines.  Of course as always you are on your own to decide what is legal or not legal.

ETA: JK beat me to it.
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 8:42:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainbarred:
This question is on both magazines and stocks.

In order to make a pinned stock or magazine legal in NY, does it need to be pinned to the point that it can be unpinned, but require tools(ie takes a wrench to remove a bolt) or does it need to be permanent(silver solder or spot weld the nut onto the bolt)

I am asking cause I am thinking of getting a GSG5 and I hear its easy to pin the mags by putting a bolt through the back to block the follower going any lower after 10 rounds.

Also I am looking at one of the folding skeleton stocks that are available and am thinking of drilling and droping a bolt through there as well...


And unrelated, I know we are not allowed to transport loaded magazines in a vehicle.  What about if they are not accessible from the cab.(I have a truck, rifle will be in cab, mags in bed).

Is that OK or not???


I think you would be ok if you silver soldered or welded the mag stop (bolt) into the magazine.
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 9:55:06 AM EDT
Well that clears that up!!!

Thanks guys!  Now excuse me while I go load 20 some odd mags...

Any more input on the mags/stock pinning question would be appreciated.

IMHO, it would be stupid to require it be welded or whatever as taking the stock off something like an AK(only requiring a screw driver) makes it an AOW.

But then again, the whole law is stupid so why should any of it make sense.

I mean... I understand the bayo lug portion of the law!  Drive by bayonettings were really out of control prior to the 94 ban!!!!  
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 10:07:07 AM EDT
I think some of the AR-15 franken mags produced during the ban were limited to 9 rounds. If you have a 10 round mag and can force another round in it I guess they considered it a LCAFD.

Personally I think it's a good idea to transport  mags/ammo in a locked container. Some might consider that overkill but I also think that depends on where you live.  
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 11:05:19 AM EDT
What I personally do when I'm taking my rifle to the range is, I keep my loaded mags in my range bag, in the passenger compartment.  The rifle goes, unloaded, chamber open (to show it is unloaded) and the safety on into the trunk.

I try to show that I am following both the spirit and letter of the law.  But I'm also not going to spend time at the range loading up all my mags.  

But that's just me.  As someone else already said, your mileage may vary.
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 11:14:15 AM EDT
Your trunk is a "locked" container. If you have one I wouldn't keep targets, ammunition or anything else related to guns in the passenger compartment. YMMV
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 11:14:18 AM EDT
Well I just spent a little time perusing the penal law, and found that the definition of a "loaded weapon" is


"Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition  or  any
 firearm  which  is  possessed  by one who, at the same time, possesses a
 quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.


so.... by definition, you cannot transport the ammo and firearms to the range at the same time....
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 11:18:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2008 11:20:07 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By captainbarred:
Well I just spent a little time perusing the penal law, and found that the definition of a "loaded weapon" is


"Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition  or  any
 firearm  which  is  possessed  by one who, at the same time, possesses a
 quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.


so.... by definition, you cannot transport the ammo and firearms to the range at the same time....


"Firearm" has a special meaning in NYS. Legal length long guns not classified as assault weapons are not "firearms" in NYS. A handgun is a "firearm" but if you are licensed or otherwise exempt from the licensing law you're exempt from that section of the PL.

Now you need to lookup the definition of a "firearm".
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 11:33:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainbarred:
Well I just spent a little time perusing the penal law, and found that the definition of a "loaded weapon" is


"Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition  or  any
 firearm  which  is  possessed  by one who, at the same time, possesses a
 quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.


so.... by definition, you cannot transport the ammo and firearms to the range at the same time....


To piggyback on what rkbar15 said, "firearm" is a term of art in NY (as it is in most jurisdictions).  Legal definitions and dictionary definitions are often very different.

From Penal Law Section 265.00:



3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver;  or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length;  or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length;  or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked;  the overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.  Firearm does not include an antique firearm.


As you can see, pistols and revolvers are "firearms" in NY, and as such possession of one is illegal.  However, having a pistol permit means you are exempted from the law making them illegal, assuming that the pistol you are in possession of is registered on your permit.
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 11:49:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2008 11:58:29 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By captainbarred:
so.... by definition, you cannot transport the ammo and firearms to the range at the same time....


Just to confuse you a little more legally possessed "firearms" are the only guns that can be legally transported loaded in or upon a MV in NY. And just so you can be throughly confused sometimes the various codified laws get confused and refer to firearms when they actually mean something else.

ETA: The USC/CFR also has a definition of a "firearm" which could be a legal length shotgun.
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 5:44:40 PM EDT
I think they make it confusing as hell so they can arrest you if they want too....
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 5:55:45 PM EDT
exactly, some dumbass was like... HEY lets throw in a bunch of paper work AND word things so they dont make ANY sence, AND find more ways to make things a huge long drawn out process intead of being clean cut and straight to the point
Link Posted: 3/31/2008 6:02:31 PM EDT
talked to a guy from the DEC about what defines a loaded firearm in the car, his answer was you could have the magazines loaded, but not in the gun...duh

so thats the best answer i could give
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 4:54:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DieselDJ:
exactly, some dumbass was like... HEY lets throw in a bunch of paper work AND word things so they dont make ANY sence, AND find more ways to make things a huge long drawn out process intead of being clean cut and straight to the point


You can thank your elected Albany critters for the mess they have created over the years.  
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 9:48:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
You can thank your elected Albany critters for the mess they have created over the years.  


Don't forget Big Tim Sullivan!

The father of New York State firearms laws!
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 7:42:32 PM EDT
So back to one of the original questions....

Do you all think the magazine blocks need to be welded or silver soldered??

or am I fine with a bolt and nut?

How about on the folding magazine?
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:25:15 PM EDT
As far as the stock goes... I think anything you could UN-pin, without removing it from the rifle would be a bad idea.

The mag mod has to be permanent at 10 rounds max... otherwise it isn't really a 10 round mag. It's an illegal high cap mag with a temporary impediment. Possession is the violation, so sticking something in the way and promising to only load 10 rounds isn't going to cut it in the eyes of the law.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 5:00:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainbarred:
So back to one of the original questions....

Do you all think the magazine blocks need to be welded or silver soldered??

or am I fine with a bolt and nut?

How about on the folding magazine?


Personally I don't think you're "fine" with either pinning a stock or any type of blocked magazine that was originally manufactured as a LCAFD. There is no agency in NY that has the authority to review, approve/disapprove or issue standards to either pin stocks or block magazines.

Once again you're on your own to determine what is legal or not legal and what level of risk you want to assume in attempting to comply with the law.
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