User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/8/2011 3:31:08 PM EDT
As predicted by Martin Camp about four years ago the AR now dominates the above event.
And given that in the last two years there have been only two entries each year for the "Historic" class, is it now time time to drop Historic and have a seperate comp for it over a leisurely two days without a hint of a rundown? Those who shot No.4's for the falling plates seem to have enjoyed themselves; so how many of you would enter with a No.4 if this were to happen? Discuss........... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2011 4:49:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd come and shoot the historic class, but none of mine have a 10rnd magazine. The Lee Enfield was quite a special rifle for the time in featuring that sort of capacity, in that class of firearm; it even held more than the self-loading M1 Garand. The interest probably isn't high enough to cater for sub-10rnd service rifles, and I'm well aware most own a No.4, SMLE, No.5, etc..
If it does get popular, the option to get the more unusual stuff out may appeal to some. I see a lot more K31 rifles in use these days at Bisley. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 12:46:35 AM EDT
[#2]
I would be very interested in wooden rifle only CSR days.
If at a particular match I have a choice between shooting Practical optic class or wooden class, practical optic would always be my first choice for practice / league position reasons etc. As has been said on a number of occasions in the past on this site, CSR using 'as issued' wooden rifles gives the the nearest to a level playing field that you will be able to achieve. Unfortunately 303 ammunition is shockingly expensive these days. Given this and my lack of ability (and most others too) to be able to regularly hit the targets beyond 300 yds, I would prefer to shoot Urban contact (25 - 100 yd) and 100 / 200 / 300 yd matches. If we could use butt zero and a moving target that would be good too. As for classes, SMLE / No 4 / jungle carbine can all go against each other. You could have a No 4 T class. You could also have a five round mag class which would be suitable for any other historic rifle (Moisin Nagant / Schmidt Rubin / P14 / Springfield etc). As for rules, rifles to be used as issued. So no supports / bipods etc. Ordinary Brit / Yank issue slings used as 2-point. Issue sights. I definitely won't come if the range tramp is the chief RCO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 12:51:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I definitely won't come if the range tramp is the chief RCO. He was missing on Sunday from the Enfield Challenge which pleased most of us! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 8:48:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Actually LV426, you ought to have a class for 2-groove Savage built No4's with targets 4 times bigger and half the distance. (Guess what I have....
 )
Soren |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 12:10:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Wouldn't mind a go at the Wooden Gun one either.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 12:32:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Actually LV426, you ought to have a class for 2-groove Savage built No4's with targets 4 times bigger and half the distance. (Guess what I have.... )Soren ? Ive just bought a No4 Savage. 2 Groove? Oh crap, why do i think I'm about to find out something i dont want to hear?  Id proably be up for a match as long as Ive got aa scope on the rifle by then. It will be a No32 so period, hopefully you'll still let me play. I alsso have several others that might want to play from the Artists or OSM.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 2:00:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually LV426, you ought to have a class for 2-groove Savage built No4's with targets 4 times bigger and half the distance. (Guess what I have.... )
Soren ? Ive just bought a No4 Savage. 2 Groove? Oh crap, why do i think I'm about to find out something i dont want to hear? Id proably be up for a match as long as Ive got aa scope on the rifle by then. It will be a No32 so period, hopefully you'll still let me play. I alsso have several others that might want to play from the Artists or OSM. Have you seen the prices of No32 scopes? If not, prepare to pucker... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2011 2:05:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually LV426, you ought to have a class for 2-groove Savage built No4's with targets 4 times bigger and half the distance. (Guess what I have.... )Soren ? Ive just bought a No4 Savage. 2 Groove? Oh crap, why do i think I'm about to find out something i dont want to hear? Id proably be up for a match as long as Ive got aa scope on the rifle by then. It will be a No32 so period, hopefully you'll still let me play. I alsso have several others that might want to play from the Artists or OSM. Have you seen the prices of No32 scopes? If not, prepare to pucker...  I have seen the price of a No32. I've been proper puckered for a while. One option is one of the reproduction ones available from the USA. Someone is looking into that for me. Other than that I have been offered a No32 Mk1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2011 11:44:29 AM EDT
[#9]
I would be interested in a historic only CSR match. There's even some historic SR stages we could shoot such as the Hamilton Leigh and the Barlow.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2011 12:51:15 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm up for doing an historic CSR match,the old SMLE needs an airing.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2011 1:59:18 PM EDT
[#11]
That's it then Mr Strangely B, there seem to be quite a few takers.
You will have to start making the arrangements. Organise it and they will come... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2011 3:07:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
That's it then Mr Strangely B, there seem to be quite a few takers. You will have to start making the arrangements. Organise it and they will come... One for the NRA Civ SR Committee me thinks; and discussion with LERA & HBSA to try and get their weight behind it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2011 10:28:27 PM EDT
[#13]
As long as it's an additional match and not an instead of, you could organise it for the day before or the day after a Winter League match. But aren't all the Historic classes already well catered for with LERA, HSBA, their own events in the Imperial and the Trafalgar. If you look at the low scores shot by those using SMLEs and No.4 either the targets are too small or the CoFs too hard, do you really want to shoot expensive ammo just to miss.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2011 10:52:35 PM EDT
[#14]
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class
No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 10:30:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 12:27:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
As long as it's an additional match and not an instead of, you could organise it for the day before or the day after a Winter League match. But aren't all the Historic classes already well catered for with LERA, HSBA, their own events in the Imperial and the Trafalgar. If you look at the low scores shot by those using SMLEs and No.4 either the targets are too small or the CoFs too hard, do you really want to shoot expensive ammo just to miss. The summer historic weekend is only at 200 yards and doesn't really cater for things like the "sitting", my thoughts would be the traditional 100, 200 & 300 matches we currently do. albeit without any rundowns which I think are one of the off putting factors for the old and bold. If you could add in a Roupell (Enfield Challenge) on the ETR at Ash you then have a bloody good weekends shooting. I have to say I was surprised how many NRA club members the Tramp managed to put together for the falling plates which did show that there is interest in No.4's, even though one of them was a TV. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 12:35:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class I do hope someone is keeping a list of reasons you're not in charge just in case
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 12:54:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 1:26:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 1:34:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? What do you think is perfectly right with them? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 1:49:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? What do you think is perfectly right with them? You first, I insist.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 3:50:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Looks like Bradders is a bit busy in another thread at the moment. Looking forward to him posting in this one again because I'm interested to see what he has to say.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 4:01:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? Historical and irons, not so much, although there is a time and place for everything. But those classes are so poorly attended they at times are pointless IMHO. Practical....well that's just pandering to and appeasing those thatnwill in no way appease or accomodate the rest of us. The class was created because they were spitting their dummies out. It is Service Rifle after all. Interestingly though, whereas Servive class has improved significantly, Practical class performances have stagnated to the point that Service class scores and performances are better. Just look at the Imperial overalls. Every year in the Methuen, we have to play to their rules, never ours. Do you know why? Because if we shot it to SR rules as it should be, they'd all cry off and not take part Same with the falling plates match. One way traffic every time |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 4:22:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? Historical and irons, not so much, although there is a time and place for everything. But those classes are so poorly attended they at times are pointless IMHO. Practical....well that's just pandering to and appeasing those thatnwill in no way appease or accomodate the rest of us. The class was created because they were spitting their dummies out. It is Service Rifle after all. Interestingly though, whereas Servive class has improved significantly, Practical class performances have stagnated to the point that Service class scores and performances are better. Just look at the Imperial overalls. Every year in the Methuen, we have to play to their rules, never ours. Do you know why? Because if we shot it to SR rules as it should be, they'd all cry off and not take part Same with the falling plates match. One way traffic every time It's a shame more people don't go in for irons and historic because there are some really cool guns that go into those classes. They might be diminutively represented but they do no harm when they're there. It sounds like there might be or might have been some friction between service rifle and practical rifle communities. I'd be interested to hear the ins and outs but it seems a bit Judean People's Front at first glance. I'd have thought both disciplines hold the same appeal to ostensibly the same people. As for performance, in a similar spirit to my posts in the massive mouthful sniper competition thread I'd have thought that people can use whatever they perceive as advantages. Like you say, the perceived benefits of a rifle eligible for practical class do not always equate to high scores. I don't know enough about the discipline to proclaim anything is perfectly right with the irons, historic and practical classes. I can't see the harm they do and I can see the benefit of them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 4:31:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? Historical and irons, not so much, although there is a time and place for everything. But those classes are so poorly attended they at times are pointless IMHO. Practical....well that's just pandering to and appeasing those thatnwill in no way appease or accomodate the rest of us. The class was created because they were spitting their dummies out. It is Service Rifle after all. Interestingly though, whereas Servive class has improved significantly, Practical class performances have stagnated to the point that Service class scores and performances are better. Just look at the Imperial overalls. Every year in the Methuen, we have to play to their rules, never ours. Do you know why? Because if we shot it to SR rules as it should be, they'd all cry off and not take part Same with the falling plates match. One way traffic every time It's a shame more people don't go in for irons and historic because there are some really cool guns that go into those classes. They might be diminutively represented but they do no harm when they're there. It sounds like there might be or might have been some friction between service rifle and practical rifle communities. I'd be interested to hear the ins and outs but it seems a bit Judean People's Front at first glance. Both styles of shooting appeal hold the same appeal to ostensibly the same people. As for performance, in a similar spirit to my posts in the massive mouthful sniper competition thread I'd have thought that people can use whatever they perceive as advantages. Like you say, the perceived benefits of a rifle eligible for practical class do not always equate to high scores. I don't know enough about the discipline to proclaim anything is perfectly right with the irons, historic and practical classes. I can't see the harm they do and I can see the benefit of them. The benefit is more people on the firing point, that's about all. What's the point in competing in a class of 1 or 2? Practical class shooters are cry babies
I've heard all their excuses A few years ago the scores were getting so tight that there were too many shoot offs. It was decided to try and get back to basics and get rid of bipods as it was becoming too easy. It was like Practical F-Class We allowed mag resting as do the Army etc, but then all the whinging started. My mag doesn't reach the ground My gun wont feed from the mag when rested I don't know how to use a sling I just can't get on with mag resting It's just too hard 
Then we suggested using ball ammo....... My gun doesn't like that ammo My gun won't feed that ammo
It goes on..... So we reintroduced bipods and came up with some firm class rules and all the ones that couldn't handle it migrated over, because theyre not flexible enough Every year we shoot the Methuen and plates matches and get constantly asked the same question "is this match shot to practical rules? They never reciprocate It's all a bit tiresome |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 4:57:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there should be only one class anyway- Service class No Historic No iron sights And certainly no Practical class What do you think should be allowed in this service class? Exactly the same as it is now So what do you think is wrong with historic, irons and practical classes? Historical and irons, not so much, although there is a time and place for everything. But those classes are so poorly attended they at times are pointless IMHO. Practical....well that's just pandering to and appeasing those thatnwill in no way appease or accomodate the rest of us. The class was created because they were spitting their dummies out. It is Service Rifle after all. Interestingly though, whereas Servive class has improved significantly, Practical class performances have stagnated to the point that Service class scores and performances are better. Just look at the Imperial overalls. Every year in the Methuen, we have to play to their rules, never ours. Do you know why? Because if we shot it to SR rules as it should be, they'd all cry off and not take part Same with the falling plates match. One way traffic every time It's a shame more people don't go in for irons and historic because there are some really cool guns that go into those classes. They might be diminutively represented but they do no harm when they're there. It sounds like there might be or might have been some friction between service rifle and practical rifle communities. I'd be interested to hear the ins and outs but it seems a bit Judean People's Front at first glance. Both styles of shooting appeal hold the same appeal to ostensibly the same people. As for performance, in a similar spirit to my posts in the massive mouthful sniper competition thread I'd have thought that people can use whatever they perceive as advantages. Like you say, the perceived benefits of a rifle eligible for practical class do not always equate to high scores. I don't know enough about the discipline to proclaim anything is perfectly right with the irons, historic and practical classes. I can't see the harm they do and I can see the benefit of them. The benefit is more people on the firing point, that's about all. What's the point in competing in a class of 1 or 2? I see it more like competing against everybody. Regardless of other people's interpretations of the scoreboard if I was shooting in one class I'd be looking at my score relative to all classes. Wouldn't it be cool to shoot with an SMLE and come out with overall top score, beating all the space guns. Practical class shooters are cry babies
I've heard all their excuses A few years ago the scores were getting so tight that there were too many shoot offs. It was decided to try and get back to basics and get rid of bipods as it was becoming too easy. It was like Practical F-Class Obvious suggestion is have varied courses of fire where a bipod is sometimes a help and sometimes a hinderance. We allowed mag resting as do the Army etc, but then all the whinging started. My mag doesn't reach the ground My gun wont feed from the mag when rested I don't know how to use a sling I just can't get on with mag resting It's just too hard
Then we suggested using ball ammo....... My gun doesn't like that ammo My gun won't feed that ammo
It goes on..... So we reintroduced bipods and came up with some firm class rules and all the ones that couldn't handle it migrated over, because theyre not flexible enough Sounds fine. Every year we shoot the Methuen and plates matches and get constantly asked the same question "is this match shot to practical rules? What are practical rules? Just the class equipment specifications? They never reciprocate It's all a bit tiresome |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2011 10:04:06 PM EDT
[#27]
I personally do think that the Methuen should be shot with "Service Optic" Class but the reality is that if it was one particular club would not enter as many if any teams. We should be able to beat them anyway we just need to practice Standing and Sitting Rapid more.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2011 9:58:27 AM EDT
[#28]
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
