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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/2/2005 8:29:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 6:32:57 PM EDT by grooVe]
So I'm sitting in traffic last week in Lodi because some assclown decided to run a red light and smash into cross traffic. Nobody was hurt but it slowed everything down really good. Anyways, I finally get up to where it all happened and a local cop is just pulling up. I stop at the light and take a look at the damage while I wait. The cop starts getting out of his car and I notice that locked next to his seat is a AR15 SBR.

Now I must be wrong here, but I thought NFA stuff was illegal in CA? Any norcal LEOs want to clue me in? (and then take me shooting?)

please!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 8:55:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:04:37 PM EDT
LEOs can also get write-offs for banned weapons, including ones not importable for civilian sales because the system is stupid.

I wonder if it would be possible to get a Sig 551 written-off on Dept letterhead...
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:17:37 PM EDT
the cops can have whatever they want as long as they can get it issued to them. The stuff they get on department letter head belongs to the department. If I remember correctly in the end they can get it given to them as a retirement gift of sorts.

But the firearm does not belong to them, its department property. Some agencies issue the fun stuff to the officer as a personal weapon, others issue it one per car.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:46:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By D-duck:
the cops can have whatever they want as long as they can get it issued to them. The stuff they get on department letter head belongs to the department. If I remember correctly in the end they can get it given to them as a retirement gift of sorts.

But the firearm does not belong to them, its department property. Some agencies issue the fun stuff to the officer as a personal weapon, others issue it one per car.




Hmm.. So.. even though they're being written off for it, and they buy the firearm, it's not really theirs?

Where's the fun in that?

What's the matter? Don't they TRUST cops?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:23:34 AM EDT
I want to start my own town and be the chief LEO.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:24:26 AM EDT
Actually, I am sure what you saw was a semi. SBR,
Most of the departments are giving their guys AR's ever since the LA bank robbery.
You will notice that the shotgun has a new companion loocked right next to it.
I think they were worried about the shotgun being lonely when the police are in the donut store.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:34:02 AM EDT
when I was in grover beach (Pismo) for the 4th of July weekend, I observed a local motor officer with a 10.5 colt in a rack on the side of his saddlebag. He was more than happy to answer my questions and even let me get close enough to check it out. Unfortunately he didnt let me take a photo.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:12:24 AM EDT
NFA stuff is available in Kali for LEO (through there department on an official capacity), movie makers and criminals.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:25:15 PM EDT
For all we know, the officer could have been a member of the local PD's tactical team and the SBR was one of his issued duty weapons. Many municipalities don't have the funds to maintain a full time ERT/SWAT squad.

A few of the local PD officers have AR15 type rifles in their cars. Some Santa Clara County LEO's carry them "open" next to their shotgun. Palo Alto LEO's store them in the trunk.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:32:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By D-duck:
the cops can have whatever they want as long as they can get it issued to them. The stuff they get on department letter head belongs to the department. If I remember correctly in the end they can get it given to them as a retirement gift of sorts.

But the firearm does not belong to them, its department property. Some agencies issue the fun stuff to the officer as a personal weapon, others issue it one per car.



Pretty sure that departments set guidelines on which firearms they'll sign off on. Mainly due to logistics concerns like ammo, mag and parts compatibility. Makes it easier if officers can swap mags in a situation. Also makes it easier on the department armorer (Staff or contract) if he doesn't have to train and stock parts for a bunch of different weapons (AR15 vs Sig 551).
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:40:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 1:41:14 PM EDT by uglygun]
Local PD(Bakersfield) has a very nice condition MG42 that they confiscated and transferred to the dept.

Friend of mine who is a higher up in the dept. was kind enough to send me pictures of them firing it at the local police range. Guess the buzz of the MG42 was loud enough that some old timer a fair ways down the road called the station to report gun fire while ACCURATELY describing what he thought he heard.

They got the gun in a traffic stop of all things, it was a non-documented WWII bring back.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:24:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 3:31:47 PM EDT by Mauser101]

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By D-duck:
the cops can have whatever they want as long as they can get it issued to them. The stuff they get on department letter head belongs to the department. If I remember correctly in the end they can get it given to them as a retirement gift of sorts.

But the firearm does not belong to them, its department property. Some agencies issue the fun stuff to the officer as a personal weapon, others issue it one per car.




Hmm.. So.. even though they're being written off for it, and they buy the firearm, it's not really theirs?

Where's the fun in that?

What's the matter? Don't they TRUST cops?




leelaw-
Check into your local PD for this...

Prior to his retirment my father picked up a '94 complaint AR. SDPD and SD Sheriffs allow their officers to purchase for personal use post '94 ban complaint "AWs" and pre ban "AWs". They are allowed to keep for personal use a '94 compliant rifle after retirement. Pre-ban types are not allowed to be held onto, they will need to be either turned in (hopefully you get some money back), sold (not even sure about that) or converted to a '94 compliant rifle.

Two months before his retirment I convinced my father to pick up a Bushy, this one specifically and as many 30 round magazines as my monther wouldn't notice on the bank statement. Got himself ten 30s and the two 20s that came with it. Finally took possesion of the extra mags 2 weeks before his retirment was in.

He told me that several departments were approving a similar program. You might look into that. I'm pissed about the "special class" but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage.

EDIT: AK brakes are LOUD.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:07:31 PM EDT
Any of the NFA stuff is department owned, and there is a lot of it out there.You would be surprised, within a couple houses of mine there is an M-4 and an MP-5[LE guns].I had a friend stop by in his take home car which he carrys an MP-5 and his swat gear in the trunk. I was thinking to myself shit there are 3 NFA weapons right now in a 75 yard stretch of my street.Makes you wonder how many are in the state.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:08:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
leelaw-
Check into your local PD for this...

Prior to his retirment my father picked up a '94 complaint AR. SDPD and SD Sheriffs allow their officers to purchase for personal use post '94 ban complaint "AWs" and pre ban "AWs". They are allowed to keep for personal use a '94 compliant rifle after retirement. Pre-ban types are not allowed to be held onto, they will need to be either turned in (hopefully you get some money back), sold (not even sure about that) or converted to a '94 compliant rifle.

Two months before his retirment I convinced my father to pick up a Bushy, this one specifically and as many 30 round magazines as my monther wouldn't notice on the bank statement. Got himself ten 30s and the two 20s that came with it. Finally took possesion of the extra mags 2 weeks before his retirment was in.

He told me that several departments were approving a similar program. You might look into that. I'm pissed about the "special class" but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage.

EDIT: AK brakes are LOUD.



Hmm, I'll have to check that out, however I think it might look weird if I ask about getting so-called CA Assault Weapons when being interviewed for a position.

I wonder what they would do for an officer moving out of state..

As for the "special class" thing, I hate it.l I'd like to standardize the law by, oh, I dunno.. abolishing the may-issue CCW, the AWB, and the full-capacity magazine ban.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:30:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
leelaw-
Check into your local PD for this...

Prior to his retirment my father picked up a '94 complaint AR. SDPD and SD Sheriffs allow their officers to purchase for personal use post '94 ban complaint "AWs" and pre ban "AWs". They are allowed to keep for personal use a '94 compliant rifle after retirement. Pre-ban types are not allowed to be held onto, they will need to be either turned in (hopefully you get some money back), sold (not even sure about that) or converted to a '94 compliant rifle.

Two months before his retirment I convinced my father to pick up a Bushy, this one specifically and as many 30 round magazines as my monther wouldn't notice on the bank statement. Got himself ten 30s and the two 20s that came with it. Finally took possesion of the extra mags 2 weeks before his retirment was in.

He told me that several departments were approving a similar program. You might look into that. I'm pissed about the "special class" but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage.

EDIT: AK brakes are LOUD.



Hmm, I'll have to check that out, however I think it might look weird if I ask about getting so-called CA Assault Weapons when being interviewed for a position.

I wonder what they would do for an officer moving out of state..

As for the "special class" thing, I hate it.l I'd like to standardize the law by, oh, I dunno.. abolishing the may-issue CCW, the AWB, and the full-capacity magazine ban.

A lot of CLEOs wont sign off on AW permits. I've heard Rupf wont sign them, if your thinking about Co Co County SO.I'm not an expert on this but I would imagine the sheriffs that issue CCLs are probably the same ones that give AW permits to their deputys.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:15:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pieeater:
A lot of CLEOs wont sign off on AW permits. I've heard Rupf wont sign them, if your thinking about Co Co County SO.I'm not an expert on this but I would imagine the sheriffs that issue CCLs are probably the same ones that give AW permits to their deputys.



Yea, I've heard he's a tightass... At least my desire to be in the field isn't tied to a CLEO sign-off..

I know for sure than Oakland signs off on AWs, at least I saw a bunch of Oakland officers at the police range in Concord with their new AR-15s.

One thing that could tick me off is a refusal to sign off on a CCW for an officer... but I don't know if there is an exemption for that.. I haven't been keeping up on it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:18:26 PM EDT
To the best of my knowledge being LEO gives you automagic CCW in the state. Don't drive over to Yuma to buy a Superball ticket with a revolver in your briefcase though.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:53:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
To the best of my knowledge being LEO gives you automagic CCW in the state. Don't drive over to Yuma to buy a Superball ticket with a revolver in your briefcase though.



What was with the national CCW bill that was passed last year? For full-time LEOs or retired LEOs only?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:32:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 2:32:31 AM EDT by kasudyo]

Originally Posted By pieeater:
A lot of CLEOs wont sign off on AW permits. I've heard Rupf wont sign them, if your thinking about Co Co County SO.I'm not an expert on this but I would imagine the sheriffs that issue CCLs are probably the same ones that give AW permits to their deputys.


I looked into it a little, apparently in Co Co County, Rupf doesn't deal with them, the local PDs do. Guy wrote in to packing.org and said he tried and pretty much got completely shot down in El Sobrante. I'm sure no chance in hell for CC in, say, Richmond, but for me out in the eastern stretches of the county I might have a better chance with the local chief. Maybe. Not that I currently have a suitable piece. I noticed the local SportMart had ankle holsters... I thought it was funny: Unless you're wearing shorts, that's definitely concealed, and there's only around 300 concealed permits in this whole county.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:17:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kasudyo:

Originally Posted By pieeater:
A lot of CLEOs wont sign off on AW permits. I've heard Rupf wont sign them, if your thinking about Co Co County SO.I'm not an expert on this but I would imagine the sheriffs that issue CCLs are probably the same ones that give AW permits to their deputys.


I looked into it a little, apparently in Co Co County, Rupf doesn't deal with them, the local PDs do. Guy wrote in to packing.org and said he tried and pretty much got completely shot down in El Sobrante. I'm sure no chance in hell for CC in, say, Richmond, but for me out in the eastern stretches of the county I might have a better chance with the local chief. Maybe. Not that I currently have a suitable piece. I noticed the local SportMart had ankle holsters... I thought it was funny: Unless you're wearing shorts, that's definitely concealed, and there's only around 300 concealed permits in this whole county.



I think pieeater was talking about my situation specifically.. I'm looking at future employment with the CoCo Sheriffs Dept, so I would be forced to go to Sheriff "D-Cell" Rupf for an AW write-off.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:55:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By kasudyo:

Originally Posted By pieeater:
A lot of CLEOs wont sign off on AW permits. I've heard Rupf wont sign them, if your thinking about Co Co County SO.I'm not an expert on this but I would imagine the sheriffs that issue CCLs are probably the same ones that give AW permits to their deputys.


I looked into it a little, apparently in Co Co County, Rupf doesn't deal with them, the local PDs do. Guy wrote in to packing.org and said he tried and pretty much got completely shot down in El Sobrante. I'm sure no chance in hell for CC in, say, Richmond, but for me out in the eastern stretches of the county I might have a better chance with the local chief. Maybe. Not that I currently have a suitable piece. I noticed the local SportMart had ankle holsters... I thought it was funny: Unless you're wearing shorts, that's definitely concealed, and there's only around 300 concealed permits in this whole county.



I think pieeater was talking about my situation specifically.. I'm looking at future employment with the CoCo Sheriffs Dept, so I would be forced to go to Sheriff "D-Cell" Rupf for an AW write-off.


Yes I was talking about the AW write-off. As for CCLs in Contra Costa, Rupf is pretty tight with them. I dont know about any of the local chiefs.Also LEOs dont need a CCL I was talking about CCL for non LE. I know someone that does have a CCL from Rupf he is a business man and a member of the sheriffs posse.So if you want one bad enough start going to all the sheriffs posse dinners.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:04:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pieeater:
Yes I was talking about the AW write-off. As for CCLs in Contra Costa, Rupf is pretty tight with them. I dont know about any of the local chiefs.Also LEOs dont need a CCL I was talking about CCL for non LE. I know someone that does have a CCL from Rupf he is a business man and a member of the sheriffs posse.So if you want one bad enough start going to all the sheriffs posse dinners.



www.keepandbeararms.com/march/posse.asp

For those who are interested.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:23:06 PM EDT
Sounds like a great dept to work for.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:28:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:
Sounds like a great dept to work for.




Good department.

Not so good sheriff.

His nickname "D-Cell" has to do vaugely with the T word that we don't utter.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:55:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
To the best of my knowledge being LEO gives you automagic CCW in the state. Don't drive over to Yuma to buy a Superball ticket with a revolver in your briefcase though.



Thanks to HR 218, now we can !

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 8:01:38 PM EDT
Bakersfield PD and the Kern Co. Sheriff have issue AR-15's for street officers/deputies and both agencies allow officers on letterhead to purchase their own. And they get to keep them when they leave. The Sheriff also has lots of surplus M-16A1's they converted to semi and replaced the triangle handguard with an A2 handguard.

I am the Rangemaster in my department and I issue an M-16A1 (Surplus) with A2 handguards and maintain the auto feature, along with good training.

In addition we issue Meprolight M21 Reflex sight, ITI M3 light and Wilderness Tac sling as standard issue. For those who have their own and/or buy their own (the chief allows it) we still issue the flashlight, sling, and sight.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:55:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By grooVe:
So I'm sitting in traffic last week in Lodi because some assclown decided to run a red light and smash into cross traffic. Nobody was hurt but it slowed everything down really good. Anyways, I finally get up to where it all happened and a local cop is just pulling up. I stop at the light and take a look at the damage while I wait. The cop starts getting out of his car and I notice that locked next to his seat is a AR15 SBR.

Now I must be wrong here, but I thought NFA stuff was illegal in CA? Any norcal LEOs want to clue me in? (and then take me shooting?)

please!



Do you (among many others here) truly not understand the difference between Department issued and personally owned weapons?

At least you weren't whining about it like the knuckleheads on some of the recent NYC threads.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:27:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Do you (among many others here) truly not understand the difference between Department issued and personally owned weapons?

At least you weren't whining about it like the knuckleheads on some of the recent NYC threads.



I thought the system worked such that a department authorizes the purchase for an individual officer to purchase their own weapon, I didn't know that in essence the officer is purchasing it for the department to allow him to use.

Glad to know, though.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:20:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Do you (among many others here) truly not understand the difference between Department issued and personally owned weapons?

At least you weren't whining about it like the knuckleheads on some of the recent NYC threads.



I thought the system worked such that a department authorizes the purchase for an individual officer to purchase their own weapon, I didn't know that in essence the officer is purchasing it for the department to allow him to use.

Glad to know, though.



Yea, thats usually how it works. And as others have already pointed out, upon retirement, some departments give the firearm to the officer as a parting gift.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:34:39 PM EDT
But I would expect that in almost every large department the city or county buys the weapon for the Department and and it belongs to the department first last and always.

I really can't see any department allowing an officer to retain a "banned" rifle on retirement let alone an NFA item. The liability and potential political fallout if anything ever went wrong would be horrendous.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:34:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
But I would expect that in almost every large department the city or county buys the weapon for the Department and and it belongs to the department first last and always.

I really can't see any department allowing an officer to retain a "banned" rifle on retirement let alone an NFA item. The liability and potential political fallout if anything ever went wrong would be horrendous.



They do buy the firearms, its just that this is another option. Say the officer wants something different or just for the hell of it.

This works well for smaller departments and the law was written to allow departments in general to do this.

They dont get to keep NFA items, just "assault weapons"
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:08:01 PM EDT
Sorry about the confusion. I didn't mean to infer that the weapon was his own personal property, but rather the question was asking if NFA was legal to local agencies who reside in a state where there is already an AW/NFA ban.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 6:43:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By grooVe:
Sorry about the confusion. I didn't mean to infer that the weapon was his own personal property, but rather the question was asking if NFA was legal to local agencies who reside in a state where there is already an AW/NFA ban.



Most bans are for personal possession. Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any state that forbids NFA items to bona fide agencies.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:01:43 PM EDT
I've run into a group of BART SWAT guys twice. The first time we were on an escalator to a BART platform, and they noticed my "AR15.com" T-shirt () and we started talking. Two of them had FA MP-5's with Surefire front ends, and the "leader" had a C7/M4 upper on a M-16 lower, with a Surefire 500 handguard. The second time I saw them, the third guy was different, and he had an A3/M4 upper on a M-16 lower, with an Aimpoint, M4 RAS with a KAC VFG and a Surefire SU.
BART SWAT, never would've guessed.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:30:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
I've run into a group of BART SWAT guys twice. The first time we were on an escalator to a BART platform, and they noticed my "AR15.com" T-shirt () and we started talking. Two of them had FA MP-5's with Surefire front ends, and the "leader" had a C7/M4 upper on a M-16 lower, with a Surefire 500 handguard. The second time I saw them, the third guy was different, and he had an A3/M4 upper on a M-16 lower, with an Aimpoint, M4 RAS with a KAC VFG and a Surefire SU.
BART SWAT, never would've guessed.



Dude.. That could be a good career opportunity. Did you know that BART Police is the highest paid police department in the bay area?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:31:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
I've run into a group of BART SWAT guys twice. The first time we were on an escalator to a BART platform, and they noticed my "AR15.com" T-shirt () and we started talking. Two of them had FA MP-5's with Surefire front ends, and the "leader" had a C7/M4 upper on a M-16 lower, with a Surefire 500 handguard. The second time I saw them, the third guy was different, and he had an A3/M4 upper on a M-16 lower, with an Aimpoint, M4 RAS with a KAC VFG and a Surefire SU.
BART SWAT, never would've guessed.



Do you mean BART, like the train system, or does BART stand for something else?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:38:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By grooVe:
Do you mean BART, like the train system, or does BART stand for something else?


Yes, the Bay Area Rapid Transit system
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 2:54:48 PM EDT
LEO agencies can aquire any type of NFA weapon they want to get their hands on.

A small town Chief LEO can get an DShK 12.7mm from eastern europe if he really wanted one.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 4:00:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FireControlman:
LEO agencies can aquire any type of NFA weapon they want to get their hands on.

A small town Chief LEO can get an DShK 12.7mm from eastern europe if he really wanted one.



They make those in a Carbine?
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