Another club I'm in , the Cascade Mountain Men, is having its annual muzzle-loading arms and pioneer crafts show at the Monroe Fairgrounds this coming Saturday and Sunday. I thought a few of you might be interested.

This one's all about traditional muzzle-loaders, not these goofy plastic things Knight and others convince you you need with a 4-12x scope so that you can be Jim Shockey and shoot a moose at 500 yards. Those things're not allowed at this show. We're about flintlocks and caplocks and round balls and real black powder. Lots of cool stuff for sale and on display. Builders making traditional guns on site. A blacksmith making gear, etc, etc. As usual, WAC will be piggybacking their show onto ours, but in different buildings. If you have time, it's well worth the drive.

I'm not an Engrish teacher, but...............you?

I did the rondy scene in middle school and high school . that was alot of fun im  prolly  gonna go try my hand at it again once i get my tc hawken re sihghted in.
just tell this crew there will be guys there in leather and loin cloths and they will be all over it
                                                                                      watch your top knot and keep your powder dry

I rike engrish. I am from Seattuhhr, too.

So I take it you get the picture now, glass houses/stones, ect?

ETA-I don't "do" subtle... Don't shit in my thread, I won't shit in yours?

What picture and what glass houses? I do not recall having criticized any member's English. If I have, show me where, and I'll accept the glass houses bit.

Oh, you mean my critique of the punctuation of the 2nd Amendment? Here's my response: I am not drafting a constitution that will be the law of the land when I post here. What I am doing is bullshitting with (I hope) like-minded individuals. It's not the same. In that context, I used engrish drafted to an acceptable standard. No?

I si wut yu did their...

Grammatical debate of the 2A aside, you came at the issue in that thread, (mine), in an insultive manner after the initial introduction of your personal/educationally based opinion. Especially when you, as a FNG, post:









And then you cry about dissenting opinion. Get off your fucking high horse.







LOOK-The opinion part is GREAT, good for the board, good for us, and educating each other is the very core of this board. Being a condescending fucking douchecanoe about it is stupid and without merit. Especially when you do it while being a realatively unknown entity, and then, presume to do it again in another seperate, unrelated thread of mine.



NOW the LCR makes better sense.







NOW is it clear? To reiterate what I mentioned previously, the bigger picture is that you should not throw stones if you live in a glass house, by way of that, do not presume to correct another's English, spelling, or grammatical errors, and expect to reside here in impunity.



You're new here, and we have a bad habit of stomping the shit out of FNG's for no good reason. I'd like to see you understand that "asshat trollery" isn't well tolerated, but at the same time stick around. From what I've seen in several of your posts, you've got quite a bit to contribute, just understand that this is a tight knit group, and dogpiles tend to occur.

How do you really feel about this matt?

T

migradog: Because he's Matt45 and facts matter.

"Douchecanoe"? I like that.

In hopes we can just move forward and not become enemies, I'll refrain from comment except to say that I apologize if I have come across in a way that irks you.

Very Cool.





Now, back to the subject at hand?



What's it take, current market for a guy to get into a flintlock long gun? I'm inclined towards a Kentucky style, rifle in .45cal. I'm not looking Right Now, but am considering in the future something that's not a "special" custom piece, but, is a reasonable shooter...

There's no easy answer to that.

You can buy a cheaper ready-made gun for just a few hundred. I would not recommend this course of action.

Rather than go about it from this angle, though, let me try another approach, by describing the progression I went through:

I started out wanting something that look traditional but that closely as possible mimiced the performance of a modern weapon. This was in the early '80s, when the "Jeremiah Johnson"-fueled Hawken craze was approaching its zenith. I became a dutiful follower of the Hawken herd, building an authentic replica of the real thing, which meant it was HEAVY.

I then experimented for years with huge-ass bullets and then on to sabots, all driven by enormous charges of various propellants in an effort to make the thing into a centerfire in performance. I chronographed my loads. I made ballisitc charts and knew how much to hold over to 200 yards. I took some game with it, and it worked well, but it was really no fun at all to shoot. The recoil was horrific, and the muzzle blast was deafening. Worse yet, all this trying to max everything out had resulted in making everything more expensive and more dangerous. Worse still for a guy who hates to clean guns, my over-driven Hawken demanded cleaning between shots and horrendous cleanup at home, using noxious smelling chemicals. Ick.

One day, I was shooting with a guy who pointed out my folly. For all that work and expense and extra risk, I had turned a 130-yard weapon into a 170-yard weapon but at the same time had taken all the fun out of actually shooting it. Of all the game I had killed, none were beyond 110 yards, so, really, I hadn't gained anything at all.

Following his lead, I went to roundballs with loose-ish patches and more realistic charges of real black powder. Suddenly, I could shoot all day, without need  to clean during firing except to run a damp patch down the barrel every 10 shots or so. Cleanup at home is simple, too. I put plain cold water in a bucket and use a tube device and a wet patch to suck water into the barrel. I pump it in and out a few times, and it's clean. Simple, easy, and no nasty chemicals. I love that. It still shoots better than I can hold offhand and it doesn't suck to clean, so I noticed I was going out to shoot it more because I was having fun with it. I also shot some elk and deer with it, and they fell over just fine when hit by a 240-ish grain roundball. The paltry number of foot-pounds carried by the balls compared to slugs didn't seem to matter at all. The ball would go in one side of an elk and come out the other side. If there were any vital organs in between, the elk would all seemd to  just stand there for about 10-20 seconds as if nothing had happened, and then drop stone dead. Still, that damned Hawken was HEAVY. I got tired of carrying it up and over mountains.

Continuing on that path, toward simplicity, I decided to build a flintlock. I built an old-school one, too, because I wanted a gun that was light and balanced and graceful. In other words, a muzzleloader that was the opposite of my brutish Hawken. The key to all that is to use a barrel that is like those used on the early longrifles:. These are heaviest at the breech, taper toward a waist that is about two thids up the barrel and then gently bell back out at the muzzle. The first one was with a 38-inch barrel. It's impossible to describe how much more balanced and elegant such a weapon feels. It also points and shoots better. Skip the intermediate steps and go right to this point, if you want a flintlock.  Also, the heart of a flintlock is the lock itself. Insist on a good one.

Naturally, such a weapon is not to be found at Cabella's for $200.

As a starting point, I will link to Jim Chambers Flintlocks. Jim builds very fine locks and offers kits that are both correct in architecture and a joy to
hold. He offers many styles. If you will hunt with it, an excellent choice is the 38-inch Isaac Haines. For target shooting, go with a 42-inch or 44-inch barrel. If you ever think yiou might hunt with it, get a .54.

http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles02.htm

I doubt this show has anything to do with the WAC show up there this weekend, right? The timing would be nice.

Same fairgrounds, but different buildings.

hmmmm...I just might be interested in this.....

Yes, yes, GW. Stop on down (or up, as the case may be).

too bad it's on that side of the state, I have this sitting around that needs to find a new home to take up space and everyone I know is too sophisticated for it.

You didn't ask.

kolat ive never been considered sophisticated (then again ive never met you )
Matt get a dixie gun works catalog then show up too a rondevous in your area, ask around at a local gun club the folks i have encountered at rondys  have been absolutly solid asking around about the whats and wheres  ussually puts a rifle in your hands  
as far as  the pprice and such id reccomend a hawken of some sort they are esier too clean unhook the barrel throw the end in a bucket of soapy water and scrub away comes clean sooner than  youd think

OK...I think I'm kinda mid-zenith of where you described forker...I've been a TC Renegade owner for years, but am kinda "over" .54cal. I've always like the .45's and .50's I've held, but especially the Kentucky's with that drop comb stock. I've shot a couple, and just like in SG's, that stock style reduces the felt/perceived recoil is much smaller. Great advie, nice write up! Thanks again!



Busboy- I've been to the Chewelah GTG, Julyamish and MountianMan Days, but that was 10 years ago. I guess those characters don't really change much.....