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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/2/2005 10:44:24 PM EDT
I may get hired for a job up in AK and would be moving the family up there. The little I know about AK gun-wise is that it is pretty much like AZ..non-draconian! I am an avid AR shooter but I am thinking I may need to up my firepower for the four-legged natives there. What do use guys use for bear protection? Shotgun? .308 rifle? .50 AE pistol? Thanks for the knowledge!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:17:58 PM EDT
I carry either a good 12ga if I've got the carry room, or a Ruger 454 Casull. What city are you looking at coming to?
No problem with gun laws up here, bring all you've got!
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:57:18 AM EDT
I was told that Anchorage, Wasilla and Palmer have a serious meth problem going on. So I was looking at Eagle River..rural/suburban, yet close enough to get to Anc if I needed. House prices havent gotten to crazy there...YET!
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:49:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The4thHorseman:
I was told that Anchorage, Wasilla and Palmer have a serious meth problem going on. So I was looking at Eagle River..rural/suburban, yet close enough to get to Anc if I needed. House prices havent gotten to crazy there...YET!



Meth is everywhere in America, but I've read it's particularly bad in the North Pole area and the Mat Su valley. But a meth lab was busted about three blocks down from me a few years ago, and I live in Anchorage proper.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:57:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 8:28:10 PM EDT by AK_Mike]

I've known someone who dumped 12 rounds of .44mag into a bear, before the bear killed him...


He wasn't the only one, .44's have failed on numerous occasions. My life is worth the extra weight, I keep my shotty at the ready and I sleep with it (when outdoors). If I carried a .44, it would be my secondary firearm. When that bear is in your face, I think you may change your mind about just packing a .44. Perhaps I feel so strongly about it because where I am, bears are commonplace, including the white variety which know no fear.

I hope you are at least using heavy solids for maximum penetration with the .44.

I have seen a .357 shot at a range of two feet at a bears head (kill shot) only to have it zing around under the skin and exit out the back. I have also seen a .338 bounce off the skull. (lesson - don't shoot the top of the head). What the .357 has going for it is penetration, but I wouldn't trust my life to it against bear unless I had nothing else more powerful, and I am not going to let that happen. I'll also tell you where you can stick that pepper spray.

Yep, it was Joe Nava. Good thing he had a door to close.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 9:50:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
I've known someone who dumped 12 rounds of .44mag into a bear, before the bear killed him...



12 rounds??? Did he have 2 pistols or have time to reload?

The4thHorseman - Eagle River is right smack between Wasilla/Palmer and Anchorage I am pretty sure that if there are problems with meth in those places Eagle River has the same problems. I am going to have to look at housing in ER the whole reason I skip them is because of housing prices (and proximity to Anchorage)

Personally the only time I hear about Meth busts are Anchorage, North Pole or the Aspen Hotel in Fairbanks.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:28:23 PM EDT
He reloaded, seriously.

Most of the friends I have that have had to actually shoot the bear with a bolt rifle got one or two shots off, a third in one case but invariably the last shot was in the bears face.

My original concealed carry instructor opened a door, saw the bear, fired all 6 rounds then closed the door. He told us this story because after he shot he realized he fired every shot single action mode and this was a lesson that you normally fire as you practice and that's the way he normally shot - he started to practice with double action after that.

Just as it is for two legged critters, handgun bullets are a poor choice.

BTW, .338WM is popular to hunt bears but I recommend the .375H&H instead, the recoil is far less punishing.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:18:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 4:47:23 PM EDT by Alaskagrown]
You must have had Joe Nava for your instructor, right? I have heard that story too.

He swears by the 357 for bear defense, that or a 12ga. He told us of a lady that took one of his courses that was charged by a griz and the 357 worked for her also.

I carry a 44 and when I am hunting have a 338WM pushing either Federal Premium 210gr or 250gr Nosler Partitions. If I ever go to Africa though it'll be an excuse to get a 375H&H or a 416.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 10:05:59 PM EDT
Man you guys don't want to here we had our first Meth lab bust here a few months ago .
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:02:05 PM EDT
Ok..so I decide to hump my 12 guage around my homestead, barn, outhouse etc. What loads should I be using for bear?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 1:02:35 AM EDT
Well I suppose if you live in deep bush, otherwise you won't need to haul one around the homestead. If you go to your outhouse with a handgun, don't drop it in the drink. It's happened before, it's not always the wallet or car keys.

I use good slugs, Brenneke are the most accurate I have ever used. Some people use buck shot exclusively, which I don't understand as it doesn't have the penetration. Some alternate between buck and ball, or load buck up front (I do this sometimes), theory being you blind it with the buck, then continue drilling it with slugs.

Just carry the biggest thing you can, that you can handle, using the heaviest solid rounds you can fire out of it - be it hangun, shotty, or rifle. Make it quick handling, and iron sighter or optics that are very low powered or see though rings.

If you are hunting the beast, that's another matter.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:34:44 AM EDT
I may take up hunting later on..but for now my concerns would be self-preservation. From what I understand bears just don't up and charge unless you spook em or deliberately *&!#% with them. I just want something that if a bear decides I look like good-eating (like I have been told before) I want to be able to stop the charge or deflect the bear away.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:16:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:47:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The4thHorseman:
I may take up hunting later on..but for now my concerns would be self-preservation. From what I understand bears just don't up and charge unless you spook em or deliberately *&!#% with them. I just want something that if a bear decides I look like good-eating (like I have been told before) I want to be able to stop the charge or deflect the bear away.



Not always true, unfortunately (for the couple that just got eaten 12 miles from where I am). A bear may attack if it's deperately hungry, hurt, has been fed by people or is used to them (no more fear), or protecting cubs which you may or may not be aware of being near. A bear does not normally think of people as good eating, hence the lack of widespread attacks. The polar bear is another matter - they have no fear and as long as what it sees moves, it may consider it to be food. Many people have been attacked and killed while minding their own business for various reasons. Hopefully when it comes to non-white bears, and they are not used to seeing humans - just cracking a shot over their heads will generally deter them and scare them away, just don't stake your life on it.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 12:50:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:

Originally Posted By The4thHorseman:
I may take up hunting later on..but for now my concerns would be self-preservation. From what I understand bears just don't up and charge unless you spook em or deliberately *&!#% with them. I just want something that if a bear decides I look like good-eating (like I have been told before) I want to be able to stop the charge or deflect the bear away.



Not always true, unfortunately (for the couple that just got eaten 12 miles from where I am). A bear may attack if it's deperately hungry, hurt, has been fed by people or is used to them (no more fear), or protecting cubs which you may or may not be aware of being near. A bear does not normally think of people as good eating, hence the lack of widespread attacks. The polar bear is another matter - they have no fear and as long as what it sees moves, it may consider it to be food. Many people have been attacked and killed while minding their own business for various reasons. Hopefully when it comes to non-white bears, and they are not used to seeing humans - just cracking a shot over their heads will generally deter them and scare them away, just don't stake your life on it.


Very very true . And I will never ever push my luck like that agin . Believe me . Carrying that little J frame feels great untill it is snack time .
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:45:28 PM EDT
BEars are as unpredictable as people, maybe even more so.

I have seen them not even flinch when warning shots are fired.

The rules for gun for bears are :

a) Anything is better than nothing

b) Bigger is better.

.44 mag in its storebought 240gr form is a pansy assed waste of brass and lead, and unsuitable for defense in my book.....

I like the 320 gr hardcasts available from garret, buffalo bore, etc....well I prefer those if .44 is what I have.

A bear was just killed here a week or so ago with a .44, tons of griz in the area this year, I've seen one in the driveway, and there have been several wounded in the area.

Ain't seen meth down here, Coke and oxycodone seem to be the order of the day, after pot of course....

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:33:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:

Originally Posted By The4thHorseman:
I was told that Anchorage, Wasilla and Palmer have a serious meth problem going on. So I was looking at Eagle River..rural/suburban, yet close enough to get to Anc if I needed. House prices havent gotten to crazy there...YET!



From what I have seen, house prices in Eagle River are just as bad as in ANC. Peter's Creek and Birchwood are nearly as bad. I had to go to Wasilla before I could afford anything decent, and even there the prices still seem to be on the rise.


I'm curious. What is a meth problem? I never hear or see anything about it.



Meth is the new scourge of today my friend. Methamphetamine is the drug of choice in the new millenium, like crack was in the 80s. Easily made from OTC drugs and the labs they are cooked up in are time-bombs waiting to go of. Turns people into lunatics.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 1:34:03 PM EDT by AK_Mike]

Originally Posted By yekimak:
I like the 320 gr hardcasts available from garret



This is what I use in a .44 for bear, if I have to. I highly recommend the Garret solid bronze bullets for penetration.


buffalo bore


I haven't tried BB in .44, but that's what I like in my 45-70


after pot of course


Yeah, well, that's legal here of course. I hear we grow some of the best (Alaskagrown pride!)
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:30:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:33:02 AM EDT by The4thHorseman]
I think I may go with a Benelli M1 Super 90. An autoloader should overcome that ass-tightening fear that inevitably comes with a bear coming at you. I can also drop an OC/CS grenade inbetween me and it and run like hell!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:09:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:11:40 AM EDT
If you are considering a Benelli M1S90, you may want to consider the M3S90 instead. The M3 allowes for either semi-automatic or manual pump action with a turn of a ring. The manual pump mode would allow for positive cycling when the shotty is gunked up or frozen. I like mine, the only thing is you are limited as to barrels, and they are all 7 shot without accessories to change that.

My other Benelli is the M1S90 tactical (14" barrel). That would be handier, but then there is the $200 tax stamp.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:52:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:14:09 AM EDT
I don't think anyone said slugs would penetrate any better, but wouldn't you rather have an 1+ ounce big ass slug penetrating than a relatively small handgun bullet? The heavy weight of the slug allows it to penetrate and break bones. The handgun bullet doesn't have as much inertia. Ask yourself, which would you rather be shot by if you had to be - a .44 or a 12ga slug?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:14:19 PM EDT
M3S90 it is then!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:23:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:10:16 PM EDT
Sure, I agree with that completely. If you are going to carry just a handgun, make sure it's powerful as you can handle and use the right loads, like Garrett Bronze Solids - for penetration.

It's unfortunate that people tend to carry handguns more than long guns, which is the ONLY reason to carry a handgun for bear - if you are the type that would be prone to carrying a handgun or no gun at all. To me, it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. You need the right tool for the right job. I've seen this tendency with concealed carry handguns as well. At first it may be a full or moderately sized handgun of adequate caliber and power (for penetration and hollowpoint expansion). Then they begin to feel that it's too heavy and/or bulky, so they downsize. Then maybe again, and again, then the next thing you know they carrying a little .32 auto or somesuch. Better than nothing but when the time comes to need it, they would have been far better off with the proper handgun they had in the first place.

I would NEVER recommend a handgun to anyone for bear protection. If they choose to be lazy and refuse to carry a long gun, then yes, at least take a handgun. For bear protection, your chances of successful defense in situations where you must shoot the bear, are much higher when using the long gun. Increasing my chances of saving my life are worth carrying the extra weight/bulk to me. I am of the school that uses handguns for concealment and to fight my way to my rifle. Handguns are known to be a poor firearm to use against people when compared to a long gun, it's no better against a bear. If it's not that good for people, why would one think it's okay for bear???

It's up to each individual to decide how much risk they want to put their life at. I'll never advise anything that would increase that risk as a primary/first option. My own father laughs at me when he sees me carrying concealed, he thinks anonymity and low statistics will save him and that he has no need for the firearm. That's fine and dandy till the day he may need one. I won't worry as I know I will be prepared. So like carrying long guns for bear as opposed to just a handgun, so like carrying at all - better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I deal with so many bears, seen enough attacks, seen enough bear kills, that I am admittedly touchy about the subject. Most people will never be close to what I commonly experience (when it comes to bears).

As we speak, there are several Grizzlies here and there walking around the area, sometimes past the front door or out my window. No polar bears, yet, it's not the season for them to be here - but they will.

Anyone remember the thread about the guy who tried to take a brownie with his AR? Shot it 8 times and the bear ran around in agony (extremely dangerous at that point) until it finally expired on it's own from blood loss some time later? Hate to think what would have happened if all he had was a handgun. That's not to say you can't kill a bear with one shot from a handgun, people do hunt bear with .44's, but they better have a long gun backing them up. It's about chances and risk. In this case, you are taking chances with and risking your life. Think hard about only carrying a handgun. Personally, I carry BOTH in the woods.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 3:00:03 PM EDT
Looks like i'll in and around Bethel soon. how are the bears out there? I wonder what company policy will be about guns in the plane...

Ben, The_Emu
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:47:39 PM EDT
http://www.alaska.faa.gov/faifsdo/pilotwinter.htm

In case of a survival situation, survey your conditions. Should you stay with the aircraft or start out on foot? Asking yourself the following questions can help you make a decision. Did you file a flight plan and or does anyone know your flight itinerary? Is your emergency locator transmitter (ELT) operating and turned on? Do you have a survival kit, equipment (for a tent, you can use parts of the plane, etc.) to make a shelter. Use airplane parts to help you survive; Gas for fire, oil for smoke signals, seat upholstery to wrap around feet or hands, wiring for tie strings, the battery may be used to ignite fuel. A survival kit is required by Alaska law; food for each occupant to sustain life for two weeks, an ax or hatchet, a first aid kit, a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle and some ammunition, a small gill net and an assortment of tackle such as hooks, flies, lines, sinkers, etc., a knife, two small boxes of matches, a mosquito headnet for each occupant.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:49:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Alaskagrown:
http://www.alaska.faa.gov/faifsdo/pilotwinter.htm

In case of a survival situation, survey your conditions. Should you stay with the aircraft or start out on foot? Asking yourself the following questions can help you make a decision. Did you file a flight plan and or does anyone know your flight itinerary? Is your emergency locator transmitter (ELT) operating and turned on? Do you have a survival kit, equipment (for a tent, you can use parts of the plane, etc.) to make a shelter. Use airplane parts to help you survive; Gas for fire, oil for smoke signals, seat upholstery to wrap around feet or hands, wiring for tie strings, the battery may be used to ignite fuel. A survival kit is required by Alaska law; food for each occupant to sustain life for two weeks, an ax or hatchet, a first aid kit, a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle and some ammunition, a small gill net and an assortment of tackle such as hooks, flies, lines, sinkers, etc., a knife, two small boxes of matches, a mosquito headnet for each occupant.




Having extra mosquito netting never hurts. ALWAYS take duct tape, the shiney 100mph type.
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