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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:52:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:26:06 AM EST
As they call out in the article though if they aren't requiring dealers to ask then how are they to know? The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know? If they ask and the purchaser lies are they (the dealer) still in violation?


Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:05:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
As they call out in the article though if they aren't requiring dealers to ask then how are they to know? The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know? If they ask and the purchaser lies are they (the dealer) still in violation?




Medical marijuana is:

1) Legal
2) Illegal
3) None of the above

I guarantee this will end up going to court at some point.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:17:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Metonymy:
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
As they call out in the article though if they aren't requiring dealers to ask then how are they to know? The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know? If they ask and the purchaser lies are they (the dealer) still in violation?




Medical marijuana is:

1) Legal
2) Illegal
3) None of the above

I guarantee this will end up going to court at some point.


As far as the Feds are concerned, it's 2)... which is what I think they are basing this "guidance" on...
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:27:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 9:28:50 AM EST by ebrguy]
Originally Posted By Metonymy:
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
As they call out in the article though if they aren't requiring dealers to ask then how are they to know? The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know? If they ask and the purchaser lies are they (the dealer) still in violation?




Medical marijuana is:

1) Legal
2) Illegal
3) None of the above

I guarantee this will end up going to court at some point.


Like jdhill said, as far as the feds are concerned MJ is a Schedule I drug in the The Controlled Substances Act. The Controlled Substances Act is the federal U.S. drug policy under which the manufacture, importation, possession, use and distribution of certain substances is regulated.

Schedule I drugs are indicated by the following criteria:

(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.

(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.

(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.

No prescriptions may be written for Schedule I substances.

To the feds it's all about #2


Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:28:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know?






What if the purchaser does not believe he/she is addicted?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:31:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By PCR-00:
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know?






What if the purchaser does not believe he/she is addicted?


Denial?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:46:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know?






What if the purchaser does not believe he/she is addicted?

Good point.... but that still doesn't answer how an FFL is to determine a Medical Marijuana user, and, if they ask, if the purchaser is required to answer.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:36:11 AM EST
How would HIPAA laws come into play, when asking about someones medical?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:03:06 AM EST
If a guy walks in smoking a joint and declares that he is a medical marijuana user, then I suppose the FFL has a responsibility to not sell to the guy. But if the customer says nothing and checks the "no" box on the form regarding use of illegal drugs then the FFL can't be expected to ask follow-up questions.
It's like domestic violence court orders, or mental problems. In many cases the only way a FFL could know if someone has that issue is if the customer checks the "yes" box.

It's really the customer who has the most responsibility here.
People who use medical marijuana know full well that it is still illegal in the eyes of the feds. If they fill out a federal form with information they know to be a lie in the eyes of the feds then any consequences would rightly fall on their shoulders.

It's nearly impossible to tell from any news story that doesn't include a copy of the original ATF letter, but my hope would be that the ATF sent this out so FFLs would have clear guidance in cases where customers are unsure what answer they should put on the form. Now a FFL can just point to the letter and tell the customer the feds say he can't have a gun.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:05:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know?



What if the purchaser does not believe he/she is addicted?

IIRC the question actually asks "..are you a user of or addicted to..

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:10:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
Originally Posted By chrisb9381:
The paper work does specifically ask if you are addicted to any illegal drugs and if the purchaser lies i can see how they could be in hot water, but how is an FFL supposed to know?



What if the purchaser does not believe he/she is addicted?

IIRC the question actually asks "..are you a user of or addicted to..



Hmmm. "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

That actually covers a lot of areas. Medical use still violates this question as far as the Feds are concerned.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:15:54 AM EST
Furthermore, I think the FFL is considered to have asked by having the customer answer that question.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 12:17:50 PM EST
Just a lot of gray area for my liking. Seems to me as they are trying to catch dealers doing something wrong, without telling them the right way, just to shut them down making less access for the public.

Or I'm thinking to hard about this and need to take my foil hat off.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 12:48:20 PM EST
Coffee contains Caffeine, which is a stimulant.

If someone were addicted to Caffeine, they would have to mark yes. I think DaBunny and whole bunch of other coffee addicts are USCWAP.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 1:28:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 1:34:24 PM EST by migradog]
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:08:27 PM EST
The controlled substance act is every bit as stupid as the NFA.

Real freedom = hooking a hookah pipe & stem up to a water-cooled belt-fed MG so you can take bong-hits while you shoot...
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:29:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
The controlled substance act is every bit as stupid as the NFA.

Real freedom = hooking a hookah pipe & stem up to a water-cooled belt-fed MG so you can take bong-hits while you shoot...


Agree, for the most part...
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:50:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:57:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 1:57:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Unicorn:May my chains lay lightly upon me because I KNOW I'm being a damn hypocrite. But this isn't at the point of being my personal line in the sand. I don't have the personal courage to go to prison over this.


My respect for you just went up a bit. Knowing your own limitations is a good thing.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:05:56 AM EST
Medical Marijuana is not "legal" in Washington. Having a medical marijuana card is merely an affirmative defense in court. Since the card is just an medical authorization (doctor's permission slip) you can still be arrested, charged and prosecuted for possessing marijuana. The majority of cases I have seen prosecuted are "community gardens" than exceed the number of plants allowed by the state or "care givers" possessing for "clients". Regardless of the needs or legit uses for medical marijuana people who grow nearly always grow more than they use and then they sell off the excess. One thing that is interesting, the price of medical marijuana and illicit marijuana is the same. In fact there is no difference between the two products.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 7:58:42 AM EST
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1235091_ATF_Medical_MJ_fiasco_new_twist_.html
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 3:26:46 PM EST
Did someone say midget pron?
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 11:18:50 AM EST
I have always found the "addicted to drugs" part of BATFE's forms interesting. There are lots of medications that people take for sleeping disorders and other medical issues that would qualify people as "drug addicts" according to BAFTE regulations. Most people who take those drugs as they are prescribed don't know that they are on the list of BATFE "addicts". Common tranquilizers and sleep meds are on the list.
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