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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/6/2006 8:14:49 AM EDT
Has anyone had to replace the follower or spring on the cali legal vulcan? Has anyone replace the mag with a 10 round 6.8 SPC mag?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:59:10 PM EDT
Yes, some months ago someone posted a How To with pics. Can't seem to find it anymore. He forced the original mag out then removed the pin that had kept it in place. IIRC, he installed a BM 10-rd mag, drilled a hole through it and replaced the pin.

You should be able to do the same with a 10-rd SPC mag, but I wouldn't have a 5.56 upper anywhere nearby.

I think most people are using either a #10 nut or a maglock kit to keep their lowers legal. There's no law that says it must be pinned.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:29:21 PM EDT
Remember to remove the pistol grip and telestock (and, obviously, any upper) BEFORE removing/ repairing the 10rd Vulcan fixed mag.

Remember to reinstall the repaired fixed mag FIRST before reattaching the pistol grip or telestock.

An open magwell off-list AR lower with a pistol grip and/or telestock may well be considered an assault weapon. You don't want this condition to happen even for a microsecond.

Bill W.
San Jose, CA
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:37:27 PM EDT
Here's a question, remove just the telestock butt or both the butt and buffer tube to be legal?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:43:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sodie:
Here's a question, remove just the telestock butt or both the butt and buffer tube to be legal?



Good question.

For safety's sake I'd take the whole stock off. The telestock tube is expressly for the telestock -
unless you could fix/pin/screw down the stock open so it does not collapse/expand by hand (i.e, like the old postban CAR15 stock of the late 90s) I'd still play it safe.



Bill W.
San Jose
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:30:35 PM EDT
If you want to build a 6.8SPC you better not own any 5.56mm as 5.56mm can be fed through 6.8SPC mags (even if it doesn't function 100%, it functions well enough) and you can fit more than 10 5.56mm rounds in a 6.8SPC 10 round mag.

I've noticed some people talking about this on calguns.net but I don't have an account there so I could not warn them. Somebody pass it on please.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:37:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CTT2:
Has anyone had to replace the follower or spring on the cali legal vulcan? Has anyone replace the mag with a 10 round 6.8 SPC mag?



Try taking a look at this weblink from calguns:

www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26035
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:34:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
If you want to build a 6.8SPC you better not own any 5.56mm as 5.56mm can be fed through 6.8SPC mags (even if it doesn't function 100%, it functions well enough) and you can fit more than 10 5.56mm rounds in a 6.8SPC 10 round mag.

I've noticed some people talking about this on calguns.net but I don't have an account there so I could not warn them. Somebody pass it on please.



I'm not buying it.

A .50 Beowulf 7 round mag is a 20 round mag in 5.56 IIRC.

As long as I have an upper of the appropriate caliber I think I'll be okay.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:29:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
If you want to build a 6.8SPC you better not own any 5.56mm as 5.56mm can be fed through 6.8SPC mags (even if it doesn't function 100%, it functions well enough) and you can fit more than 10 5.56mm rounds in a 6.8SPC 10 round mag.

I've noticed some people talking about this on calguns.net but I don't have an account there so I could not warn them. Somebody pass it on please.


That's why I went with a Stag-6.8 lower.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:12:18 PM EDT
There are many mags that work in higher capacities when misapplied.

Apparently, 10rd HK USP40 mags work in USP 9mm and hold a couple of extra rounds. Other similar situations exist for other platforms.

If you have a 6.8SPC upper/gun, having 6.8SPC 10rd mags would be fine. Only if you had the 6.8 10rd mags without the upper or gun could it get a bit smelly.



Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:11:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:12:27 PM EDT by wyv3rn]

Originally Posted By bwiese:
There are many mags that work in higher capacities when misapplied.

Apparently, 10rd HK USP40 mags work in USP 9mm and hold a couple of extra rounds. Other similar situations exist for other platforms.

If you have a 6.8SPC upper/gun, having 6.8SPC 10rd mags would be fine. Only if you had the 6.8 10rd mags without the upper or gun could it get a bit smelly.



So let's say you own 5.56mm and 6.8SPC uppers. You have a lower with a "10 round 6.8SPC mag". DA slaps your 5.56mm upper on your "6.8SPC lower", loads 11+ rounds of 5.56mm and fires the gun until the magazine is empty. You are telling me that in this overreaching state the DA won't prosecute?

Wishful thinking.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:12:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 6:14:04 PM EDT by bwiese]

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:

Originally Posted By bwiese:
There are many mags that work in higher capacities when misapplied.

Apparently, 10rd HK USP40 mags work in USP 9mm and hold a couple of extra rounds. Other similar situations exist for other platforms.

If you have a 6.8SPC upper/gun, having 6.8SPC 10rd mags would be fine. Only if you had the 6.8 10rd mags without the upper or gun could it get a bit smelly.



So let's say you own 5.56mm and 6.8SPC uppers. You have a lower with a "10 round 6.8SPC mag". DA slaps your 5.56mm upper on your "6.8SPC lower", loads 11+ rounds of 5.56mm and fires the gun until the magazine is empty. You are telling me that in this overreaching state the DA won't prosecute?

Wishful thinking.



Here, there is a 'path to legitimacy' when you have firearms that correspond to the mag type.

Currently CA does not recognize 'constructive possesion' issues. (That could change, but it will require a case with more severity.)

Even ATF won't bother you if you have a 10.5" AR upper separate from your regular 16" or 20" AR, as long as you have another AR lower reg'd as a pistol (or, more rarely, and not applicable in CA, as an SBR). Having a 10.5" upper and a separate AR or AR lower not reg'd as a pistol is where the problems start.

If you had only a 223 rifle and a 6.8SPC mag, that might be more problematic: even so, that is so far down on the list of things that that likely would only be a tack-on violation on top of more serious AW violations.

The situation you spoke of also had the DA commit the crime of mfgring an assault weapon since it could operate with 11+ rounds whereas in the configuration you originally had, it couldn't.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:03:23 PM EDT
The ATF has also said that you cannot have more SBR uppers than you own reg'd SBR lowers if you own other non-SBR lowers as that could be considered constructive intent. You must have 1 SBR lower for every SBR upper IF you own other non-SBR lowers. Could the same could be said here re: 6.8SPC?

ie. If you own other 5.56mm lowers you can't have multiple 6.8SPC uppers unless you have the same or more 6.8SPC lowers to put them on.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:09:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 12:10:17 AM EDT by bwiese]

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
The ATF has also said that you cannot have more SBR uppers than you own reg'd SBR lowers if you own other non-SBR lowers as that could be considered constructive intent. You must have 1 SBR lower for every SBR upper IF you own other non-SBR lowers. Could the same could be said here re: 6.8SPC?

ie. If you own other 5.56mm lowers you can't have multiple 6.8SPC uppers unless you have the same or more 6.8SPC lowers to put them on.



No. As for 5.56/6.8/7.62x39, etc. there is no law banning caliber changes on AWs. As long as relevant barrel and/or rifle length restrictions are maintained, no worries. And the gun doesn't need to be of the caliber originally marked on the receiver. Furthermore, there are some AR lowers that don't have the caliber even marked.

I think for what you mentioned above, they said that only in relation if you _also_ had regular AR15 rifles. If you ONLY had 3 legal reg'd SBRs, you would be welcome to have 5 or even 10 short-bbl uppers. Uppers/barrels etc are not controlled in & of themselves.

Hell, I think I have have more uppers than lowers. Many people in CA (and for that matter, rest of USA) have one AR and various caliber/formfactor uppers (16" CAR, 20" A2, 7.62x39 and 9mm, for example).


Bill Wiese
San Jose



Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:36:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:
I think for what you mentioned above, they said that only in relation if you _also_ had regular AR15 rifles. If you ONLY had 3 legal reg'd SBRs, you would be welcome to have 5 or even 10 short-bbl uppers. Uppers/barrels etc are not controlled in & of themselves.



This is correct and what I stated, if not as clearly. Thank you for the rest of the info, nice to know we can build 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel rifles if we like.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:50:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:

Originally Posted By bwiese:
I think for what you mentioned above, they said that only in relation if you _also_ had regular AR15 rifles. If you ONLY had 3 legal reg'd SBRs, you would be welcome to have 5 or even 10 short-bbl uppers. Uppers/barrels etc are not controlled in & of themselves.



This is correct and what I stated, if not as clearly. Thank you for the rest of the info, nice to know we can build 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel rifles if we like.



Yes, people have been changing calibers on reg'd AWs - regardless of whether they are Roberti-Roos guns, or SB23 guns reg'd as AWs in 2000. AW reg forms even reflect 'multicaliber' status - if you enter several calibers on the reg form for a given gun, your reg papers come back with "8888" as the caliber. Caliber is a supplemental item for registration; it needs to be filled out for sake of completeness, but changing it does not void registration, nor is registration not processed if your caliber is not the 'official' one possibly marked on lower... [50BMG stuff aside.]

Bill W.
San Jose

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