Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/2/2003 3:17:35 PM EDT
I'm beat from the sun and the run, so I'm going to make this brief, so I can eat and clean guns. Sorry, I'll do the scores and such later.

If anyone has any digital pics, post them please. Or they can email me at cmfaber@hotmail.com.

Overall I think it was a great success! Some things went better than expected, other things didn't. For instance it's a lot easier to design interesting COF, but it's hard to actually make them look good and survive mother nature (the heavy winds in this case).

Next time will be much better as we learn from our experiences and build better equipment for the shoots.

Thanks to all who came out, even those that could not stay for the entire match. A special thanks to those who helped setup and the folks that helped clean up afterwards.

Another special thanks to Anne and Gary for once again feeding us.

A very big thanks to the guys that donated to the cause. I forgot to put out a tip jar, but a couple folks still remembered to help with the costs of MODCC.

One more big thanks to Donnie at SableCo for the wonderful donations that were given off as door prizes.

I'll post more latter, but I'm hungry.

Thanks again to all who made it to the inaugural event!
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 3:28:07 PM EDT
Almost forgot. Thanks to Lief for hauling all the target stands and barricade materials back and forth from his place. We couldn't pull this off without him!
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 6:57:53 PM EDT
Here are the results.

We only ran two of the COFs, because of time constraints and the wind would have made the 3rd I designed very difficult.

Stage 1.
Shamusmcoi 1.08 +3 misses =1.14
HKocher 1.23 +1 miss =1.25
Cutter75 1.08 +1 no-shoot =1.13
GaryM 0.38 +1 miss =0.40
Mousegun 0.40 +1 miss =0.42
Duke-Nukem 1.20 +3 misses 1 no-shoot =1.29
*award for deadest hostage (5 hits I think) and most stripper clips reloaded...
Pitsnipe 0.38 +4 misses 1 no-shoot =0:51
Bob 0.57 +3 misses =1.03
ShakyJake 0.38 +1 miss =0.40
*I forgot to add the 20 sec penalty for beating me with my own rifle
Justin 1.06 +4 misses 1 no-shoot =1.21
KPEL308 0.57 +4 misses =1.05

So ShakyJake and GaryM tied for 1st with the same base time and same number of misses, thus the same total time.

Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:04:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2003 7:06:08 PM EDT by HKocher]
Stage 2.

Cutter75 1.14 +no penalties=1.14
Shamusmcoi 1.07 +no penalties=1.07
HKocher 0.43 +1 miss +1 no-shoot (whoops!)=0.50
GaryM 0.43 +1 miss=0.45
Mousegun 0.39 +no penalties=0.39
Pitsnipe 0.39 +1 miss=0.41
Shakyjake 0.43 +1 miss=0.45
Justin 0.48 +5 misses +1 no-shoot=1.03
*had to add that Justin ran this with a handgun...

Mousegun won this one, good job!

Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:15:36 PM EDT
Outstanding!!

Many thanks to HKocher and ShamusMcoi for putting together the first match.

Many thanks to KPEL308 for running the match as the RO. For the next match, I volunteer to be an alternate RO, so Kpel308 can get a breather and shoot a better score.

oz
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:16:34 PM EDT
Some thoughts for next time....

Personally, I think scoring should be modified to make things more challenging. We were adding 2 secs for misses and 5 secs for hitting a no-shoot target. Perhaps this needs to be increased. Maybe 5 secs for a miss and 10 secs for a no-shoot. This will encourage precision over speed, since we had a fair share of dead hostages and many bad guys that lived to fight another day...

Also, MouseGun87 suggested using 250M zero targets (scaled down for 25M) to simulate long shots. This is definitely a good idea.

BTW, now's the time to throw out suggestion for the next match, so we can attempt to impliment them. Also since we have already ran a match, we now have a little experience in what will work and what will not work.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:41:19 AM EDT
Thanx OZ for volunteering. Note to self: BRING MORE EFFING GATORADE!!!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 8:52:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 9:47:41 PM EDT by Cutter75]

Originally Posted By HKocher:
Some thoughts for next time....

Personally, I think scoring should be modified to make things more challenging. We were adding 2 secs for misses and 5 secs for hitting a no-shoot target. Perhaps this needs to be increased. Maybe 5 secs for a miss and 10 secs for a no-shoot. This will encourage precision over speed, since we had a fair share of dead hostages and many bad guys that lived to fight another day...

Also, MouseGun87 suggested using 250M zero targets (scaled down for 25M) to simulate long shots. This is definitely a good idea.

BTW, now's the time to throw out suggestion for the next match, so we can attempt to impliment them. Also since we have already ran a match, we now have a little experience in what will work and what will not work.



I agree...
What's the point of running the COF for fastest time if you miss all the bad guys???
In fact, Kpel308's made a comment at the shoot that "accuracy" should be the initial goal... He was more concerned with hitting the targets, than scoring the best time...
our shoot time's will improve (over time) the more we participate...
It's like in Football. If you practice sloppy, then you'll play sloppy.
Speed will come...
I'll have to re-read FDCC's site to see how they "score", but I believe that the penalty for hitting a "hostage" should be more severe...
Shaky or Shamus also made a comment that (1) sandbag on the each stand might help keep them upright in windy conditions...
good suggestion, and inexpensive...

Hkocher sorry I missed getting you some cash the day of the shoot, I certainly want to contribute...
I'll double my donation next shoot. That said, what do we need to balance the books???
And what do we need for future "growth"???
Any idea???
If we have a figure, then it will be easier for everyone to "share the load". Don't want any oneperson to bear the burden alone...

Again, I had a blast, and enjoyed myself immensely - best part was being with the gang...
and getting to know ya'll better...


___________________
"I didn't mean to kill the hostage... he just got in the way"
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 11:09:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 11:55:26 PM EDT by Cutter75]
Here is FDCC scoring, and it makes sense...

Each hostile target needs to have two shots on the body(anywhere on the body) to be considered a stop. The only exception to this is making a head shot. If there is any one shot to the head, this is considered a stop. We use IDPA type targets. These have a prefferated "vital zone" circle in the upper chest area. Any shots in that circle is considered clean and no extra time is added. Any shots outside of the vital zone circle adds one second to your base time. Any misses adds 5 seconds to your base time. If you have multiple targets and you miss more than you hit, you don't get a time. If you shoot a no-shoot target, you don't get a time.

With this scoring Kpel308 scored more kills than he did, but may have been penalized a few seconds for being out of the circle on the body and I would have scored "no time" for shooting the hostage on my first COF.

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 12:27:36 PM EDT
I like the idea of scoring for accuracy and penalizing heavily for dead good guys.

Is there a firm date set for the next shoot?
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 2:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cutter75:
Here is FDCC scoring, and it makes sense...

Each hostile target needs to have two shots on the body(anywhere on the body) to be considered a stop. The only exception to this is making a head shot. If there is any one shot to the head, this is considered a stop. We use IDPA type targets. These have a prefferated "vital zone" circle in the upper chest area. Any shots in that circle is considered clean and no extra time is added. Any shots outside of the vital zone circle adds one second to your base time. Any misses adds 5 seconds to your base time. If you have multiple targets and you miss more than you hit, you don't get a time. If you shoot a no-shoot target, you don't get a time.

With this scoring Kpel308 scored more kills than he did, but may have been penalized a few seconds for being out of the circle on the body and I would have scored "no time" for shooting the hostage on my first COF.




I really like this idea too. My Garand hates this idea, but it doesn't have much sway...
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 3:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cutter75:
Here is FDCC scoring, and it makes sense...

Each hostile target needs to have two shots on the body(anywhere on the body) to be considered a stop. The only exception to this is making a head shot. If there is any one shot to the head, this is considered a stop. We use IDPA type targets. These have a prefferated "vital zone" circle in the upper chest area. Any shots in that circle is considered clean and no extra time is added. Any shots outside of the vital zone circle adds one second to your base time. Any misses adds 5 seconds to your base time. If you have multiple targets and you miss more than you hit, you don't get a time. If you shoot a no-shoot target, you don't get a time.

With this scoring Kpel308 scored more kills than he did, but may have been penalized a few seconds for being out of the circle on the body and I would have scored "no time" for shooting the hostage on my first COF.



I like this idea too.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:47:07 PM EDT
Hey Duke,

I miss the bound-overwatch practice like we used to do. Is it remotely possible to have a team event for the carbine match? I am picking Duke-Nukem as my partner!

I like the scoring rules poined out by Cutter75.

oz
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 6:28:29 PM EDT
Guys, it was a hell of a good time. We've got a good bunch of guys involved, and I can only see it getting bigger and better.

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 9:40:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 9:41:07 PM EDT by Cutter75]
Hey, if we are going to FIRETEAM some courses, then I want GaryM and/or ShakyJake
on my team...

GaryM's pretty deadly with that AK...

And Shaky's deadlier with Hkocher's carbine (of course who wouldn't be, have you seen that tricked out AR???)...

I'd be the team member fuddling with my magazine while my partner's took out the bad guys...
Like Kurt Russell in "Big Trouble In Little China", I'd jump out with my knife and go "HA",
when the fighting was over...


Link Posted: 8/7/2003 5:04:33 AM EDT
Carrying the Garand, Duke-Nukem can knock out all the badguys that are hiding behind the hostages .... by shooting it through .... LOL.

oz
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 12:59:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PITSNIPE:
I like the idea of scoring for accuracy and penalizing heavily for dead good guys.

Is there a firm date set for the next shoot?



Well, if the first Saturday is the weekend we shoot, then September 6th is the next Shoot.

Unless Hkocher says otherwise, I will submit the permit request tomorrow to the Conservation Area Supervisor...

Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:23:09 PM EDT
Cutter75,

I went to the range briefly yesterday. OMG. It was filthy!! Esp. at the target line on the 25 yd lanes. People just trashed the range like crazy!!

Next time we have a clean-up, we need to focus on the trash down range. You may want to ask the CA if we can close the portions of the range for an hour or half hour so that we can completely remove those trash.

oz
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 2:09:11 PM EDT
that is so sad, why dont we act like adults, people are the own worse enemy, why cant the pick up after themselfs. it just makes all gun owners look like losers. we will end up losing the range if people keep that up dont the understand that. i mean heck i was going nuts the day we cleaned up when i thought i left my water bottle on the tabel after we left.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 3:59:51 PM EDT
I know. I just got upset everytime I come to this range and it looks like garbage dump down range.

I have talked to several CA agents, and all they want is for us shooters to be 1) safe, 2) clean up our trash when we are done. I just dont get it, why cant people understand such a simple request in exchange of a free and open range like Finger Lake??

I mean, we have more freedoms to shoot here than in most other public or private ranges in MO. No CA agent will mind if you empty your magazine in a few seconds, as long as you keep all the bullets on the berm. Try to do that at the range nearby STL (Busch?), it will get you kicked out of the range for sure ....

Cutter75, besides our effort to clean up the range, maybe we should launch a campaign to remind shooters (esp. those who are not ARF.com members) of their responsibility to clean up after themselves. They have enough signs out there reminding people to clean up, but they dont make any difference .... a human approach may work better.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 10:07:34 AM EDT
Ahh.... the early days, I remember them well.

You organizers keep up the hard work, it's a thankless job but it's a very fun and rewarding experience.

I design most of the COF's and reactive targets for FDCC so if you need any help or tips let me know. We've already been through some of the growing pains you're bound to encounter in the future.

Good Luck!



Dirk
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 11:01:46 AM EDT
Last time I was out there I picked up a bunch of crap from downrange.
targets that there was nothing left of, cans, cd fragments, and misc trash floating arround.

For notifying other shooters to pick up...
Maybe we should all pitch in and get some(1 for each side) 55gal drums to put closer to the shooting stations(chained to the ground to keep yahoos from hauling them downrange to shoot), and put something like "provided by the midmo ar15.com members, please keep our range neat"
I mean, maybe people are just to lazy to take the stuff to the dumpster ON THE WAY TO THEIR CARS, we could make it a bit closer. and it will give more exposure to the site for those 'evil rifle' owers who dont know about us.

Maybe talk to the rangers about creating a brass pit the lenth of the fireing line, so shooters could kick their brass in there, then any reloaders could just come out and sweep it into something instead of having to pick thru the grass, then the leftovers can be trashed later on.
I would also like to see a 'dud bucket' like the have at the conservation department ranges.
Just a box(or maybe semi sealed can w/ brakefluid in it) to drop dud's and missfires in. It's a whole lot safer than droping them on the ground like I've seen most people do.


Link Posted: 8/16/2003 7:14:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2003 7:16:37 AM EDT by Cutter75]

Originally Posted By BaNo:
Last time I was out there I picked up a bunch of crap from downrange.
targets that there was nothing left of, cans, cd fragments, and misc trash floating arround.

For notifying other shooters to pick up...
Maybe we should all pitch in and get some(1 for each side) 55gal drums to put closer to the shooting stations(chained to the ground to keep yahoos from hauling them downrange to shoot), and put something like "provided by the midmo ar15.com members, please keep our range neat"
I mean, maybe people are just to lazy to take the stuff to the dumpster ON THE WAY TO THEIR CARS, we could make it a bit closer. and it will give more exposure to the site for those 'evil rifle' owers who dont know about us.

Maybe talk to the rangers about creating a brass pit the lenth of the fireing line, so shooters could kick their brass in there, then any reloaders could just come out and sweep it into something instead of having to pick thru the grass, then the leftovers can be trashed later on.
I would also like to see a 'dud bucket' like the have at the conservation department ranges.
Just a box(or maybe semi sealed can w/ brakefluid in it) to drop dud's and missfires in. It's a whole lot safer than droping them on the ground like I've seen most people do.





When I submitted the permit request for the September MoDCC shoot I added you suggetions, BaNo, to the body of the email...
We'll see what the CA does if anything...

Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:53:54 PM EDT
Glenn: Tell Jim that we want to do what it takes to make this work. I think he already knows the extra effort that you guys have all put into it. I do.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:33:45 PM EDT
hi guys
jake kept asking why i didnt just get my own account, so here i am

as far as i know now, we are planning to be there on the 6th, unless it changes due to jakes work schedule
was thinking since it was so hot last time, maybe cold food (sandwiches, pasta salad, etc) would be better than hot grilled stuff
working on a way to keep it cool and shaded--anyone have a beach umbrella they could bring??

any other requests or suggestions are welcome
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 5:56:09 AM EDT
Like that idea, Mrs SJ...
[homer]Cold tuna salad sandwiches, mmmm...[/homer]

Extra cooler with ice would help; I'll bring mine...
we can always run up to the store for more ice if needed...

Welcome aboard!!!

Link Posted: 8/17/2003 6:00:19 AM EDT
I -KNEW- that chickens were planning to take over the world!

Welcome aboard!
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 6:54:56 AM EDT
Welcome aboard diabolical_chicken, glad to see you have your own handle here. Also glad to hear you will be at the sep. 12 shindig also. Tell Jake I said Hi!
See y'all later

Link Posted: 8/17/2003 4:41:13 PM EDT
Gary,
check your calendar...
September 6th is the first Saturday.
That's the day I put in a request for a permit...
If it's the 12th, then I need to know pronto to make an adjustment...

Thanks,
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 11:39:11 PM EDT
Hi guys, you know I'm new to this so I was wondering what I would have to do to come to the next shoot? I don't know anyone but would like to come and meet some guys. Where is it at?
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:36:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 82_Airborne:
Hi guys, you know I'm new to this so I was wondering what I would have to do to come to the next shoot? I don't know anyone but would like to come and meet some guys. Where is it at?



Just show up...
It's at the Rocky Forks Shooting range just north of I-70 off Hwy 63 (North-Northeast of Columbia, MO).
It's approximately 6 miles north of the Interstate...
You'll see Brown Signs pointing to your right for the Conservation areas...
At the end of the blacktop road stay straight onto the gravel road...
You'll see a sign pointing to the right for the rifle/skeet ranges...


Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:42:06 PM EDT
Make a right at the outhouses.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 10:43:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 10:44:04 PM EDT by Cutter75]
Just got the permit from Jim L. @ the Missouri Conservation Area...

WE ARE ON - SEPT. 6TH

Link Posted: 8/22/2003 4:48:46 AM EDT
very cool, i will make this one!! im even bringing a Freind. thats new to shooting so hopefully we can convert him. he border lines anti gun. at least anti ccw. Ronald
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 6:25:15 AM EDT
Count me in.

I have two friends from my lab coming too. Also, my high power coach / shooting partner will also be there ..

Looks like it will be a big one.

Shade. I have been thinking about putting a shade to keep us a bit cooler ... I do have tarps & bungy cord, but supports are the problem. Any idea?
Top Top