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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/22/2004 10:26:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 9:18:10 PM EST by MordecaiPSI]
Ok here is the deal. I am 20 years old. I just shoot sheet and trap with my dad and friends but i got interested in an AR 15. Well i buy one from EE here, go to my local FFL dealer in MD but he tells me that although i can buy one i cant get one transfered to me with pre-ban features (telestock, bayonet lunge, FS, etc....) becaus eim not 21! WTF??

Is this true? I dont wanna buy a pre-ban! I dont get it....i can serve and die for my country but i cant have a rifle with a telestock/fs/bayo lunge since im 20?

Someone please tell me this dealer is wrong.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:13:00 AM EST
Im from Delaware, but I some times go to Maryland gun shows. The last one I went to was in Tomonium. I saw an AK and worked out a price with the dealer, then he tells me that there was an 8 day waiting period beacause Maryland considers assault weapons as pistols. I didnt fell like going through the B.S. of a transfer and waiting period so I passed on the buy. The moral is that since your 20 you cant buy a pistol or a assault weopon for another year. You should go to PA, DE or VA gun shows and buy one from a private seller.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:11:26 AM EST
Wont there be a problem though for me to bring it back to MD? I think i can have a AR but just not a pre-ban ar.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 9:24:05 AM EST
I dont think the problem is the gun I think it is your age. You have to be 21 to buy a pistol and if MD is registering assault weapons as pistols this would mean you have to be 21. I know that you can buy NO-BAN ar15s because I saw a dealer at the Tomonium show with a hole table of new colt M4 clones with colapsible stocks, flash hiders, and bayo lugs. If I were you I would just get my parents to buy it under one of their names or a friend. Its not a straw buy if its a "gift".
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 10:31:40 AM EST
Heres a thought.....
Some dealers in Maryland do "cash and carry" sales on HBAR AR15s. If im not mistaken, any cash and carry gun should be available to anyone 18 or older. You could just locate and buy a hbar AR15, sell the upper on the EE and get an upper of the configuration you want (ie M4)
I am pretty positive thats perfectly legal, but I would verify that with someone in the know first.
HTH
John F.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 11:22:38 AM EST
Thats an expensive route to take. IMO it is better to buy a gun the way you want it, then to compromise and try to work back to the original choice. It is hard to get out what you put in when you try to sell second hand. do it right the first time and spend the extra money on accessories.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:15:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 12:16:00 PM EST by MordecaiPSI]
Well i have a friend who is 21, can i get him to buy it then he can just give it to me? Whats the procedure for transfer of that sort?

Either that or ill just have to buy an HBAR i guess.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 1:17:02 PM EST
That is considered a "staw buy" which is technically illegal. But a private sale is legal. So if your friend buys the gun and then "sells" it to you, that is totally legal. I would just type up a bill of sale with your friends name and yours along with the make, model, and serial #, and both of you sign it and get a copy. If you really want to get fancy you could have the copies notarized. But the bill of sale is just to cover you and your friends ass in case the gun is ever stolen or used in a crime.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 2:02:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 2:10:43 PM EST by 9supercomp]
The only AR15 legal to sell in Maryland as a regular rifle (sporting) is a Colt HBAR.
Must be marked HBAR on the receiver.
All other AR15's including all other Colt's are restricted and require pistol paperwork and you must be 21 (First question on the application) to purchase.

I've called the state police on this several times since Bushmaster is selling one with a stamped barrel (HBAR). They say we can sell them as regular rifles, but will not give a written statements as such.
Most dealers will not cross that line.

I work for 2 shops and neither will sell anything but the Colt HBAR as a regular rifle.

As for going to another state to purchase in a private sale is against the law also.
You can not buy or sell outside your state of residency on any long gun.
If you want something, it must be transfered to an FFL in your state.

Most of the PA dealers know Maryland law now and will not sell you one.
I'm not sure on the VA dealers since I don't get down that way any more.

I know people will do it, but I am just trying to tell you what the laws are.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 2:41:52 PM EST
Wait, so they will only sell you a Colt HBAR not any other HBAR like an RRA or Bushmaster?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:18:40 PM EST
9supercomp your saying it is illegal to buy a gun in another state from a private citizen (not a dealer)? Thats news to me. So your saying that if a friend in PA was selling his gun it would be illegal for me to go out of my state to buy it? If thats true I would like to see your information source. Last time I checked it was totally legal to buy a long gun out of state even from a dealer. Handguns must be transfered.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:56:18 PM EST
My understanding is that you CAN buy a rifle in another state, but it must be through an FFL, not just direct from a citizen (you could go to a gun store in VA or PA & buy a lever 30-30, for example). A pistol/regulated firearm has to go through a MD FFL.

Gun Rack in Burtonsville will sell most Bushmasters as rifles.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:59:41 PM EST
I was reading the MD law and i found this:

http://www.mdsp.maryland.gov/mdsp/downloads/assault_weapons.pdf

It says ALL Bushmaster rifles are banned? But the Colt Sportster HBAR is not banned? Jeez....i can vote, drive, and die fighting for my country but i cant buy a rifle cause it shoots a .223 cal bullet from a black rifle that says ar-15 on it?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:21:49 PM EST
The gun laws in MD are truely great...Vote Republican in the coming election
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:19:06 AM EST
Move to DE, evil black rifles for everyone!
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:34:43 PM EST
How big of a deal do you guys think it would be for my friend to just buy it and it would be "technically" his. Would the range owners care that much? I mean are they very strick on checking ID of everyone at thier range with a black rifle/a rifle that looks liek its restricted?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:51:29 PM EST
weird... I figured since the AWB went away it would't be an issue. Is an assault weapon still an assault weapon now that the things that made one an assault weapon no longer matter? This seems like a serious gray area to me.

Although, if I were going to believe anyone here I would take 9Supercomp's word on this issue. He knows his shit.

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:00:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 4:02:27 PM EST by Foxxz]
MD has its own assult weapons BS. However, I would think just as long is it doesnt have "evil" features it would be a problem. just buy as a regular long gun. but then again, i can't never figure out MD gun laws. if it has the evil features you mention, then you have to fill out the same paperwork you do for a pistol and be over 21.

-foxxz
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:34:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
MD has its own assult weapons BS. However, I would think just as long is it doesnt have "evil" features it would be a problem. just buy as a regular long gun. but then again, i can't never figure out MD gun laws. if it has the evil features you mention, then you have to fill out the same paperwork you do for a pistol and be over 21.

-foxxz



MD is weird on this issue. Some gun shops will let you buy an AR as a regular long rifle if it's an HBAR. Otherwise, I think regardless of "evil" features it's lumped in with pistols as far a wait times and age restrictions.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:16:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 8:16:58 AM EST by MordecaiPSI]
Ok heres the low down on MD law, i just talked to the Jessup Barrack in charge of licencing. I can get no evil feature rifle but i can get any rife that is stamped "HBAR" on it from the factory. A lot or (most) dealers do not know this.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:39:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By MordecaiPSI:
Someone please tell me this dealer is wrong.



Dealer is WRONG. You can't buy a rifle that is covered under the MD AW law until you are 21; However you can buy any HBAR (as it's treated as a 'regular' rifle like any Winchester).

There is no mention in the law of features (i.e. telestock or FH). If it's an HBAR then you can buy/own it. (this means in most cases you won't be able to buy an M4 type till you're 21).
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:40:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By 187evry1:
You should go to PA, DE or VA gun shows and buy one from a private seller.


That would make you a deFacto criminal (as well as the person selling it).

I don't know about others - but I always check the Drivers license when selling a rifle privately.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:42:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By MordecaiPSI:
Well i have a friend who is 21, can i get him to buy it then he can just give it to me?


Strawman sale - highly illegal (Federally and State). If you were ever caught you'd be screwed.

BTW you can 'give' firearms to in-state relations, but anyone else is a no-no.

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:43:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9supercomp:
Bushmaster is selling one with a stamped barrel (HBAR). They say we can sell them as regular rifles, but will not give a written statements as such.


Bushmaster sells MOST of their rifles as HBARS.

The Gun Rack in Burtonsville has a wide variety of Bushmaster HBARS in a variety of configurations.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:49:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By 187evry1:
9supercomp your saying it is illegal to buy a gun in another state from a private citizen (not a dealer)?


That is correct.


Thats news to me.

Hmm my guess is you've never read the law then.


So your saying that if a friend in PA was selling his gun it would be illegal for me to go out of my state to buy it? If

Correct.



thats true I would like to see your information source.


How about the BATF and the US Code.

Of cours if you don't want to wade through the BATF website or US Code you could always check with the NRA:
Sales Between Individuals
An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence.



Last time I checked it was totally legal to buy a long gun out of state even from a dealer.

You can ONLY buy from a dealer out of state - never a private sale. It's been that way since 1968 GCA at the minimum.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:50:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By MordecaiPSI:
...It says ALL Bushmaster rifles are banned? ....


No it says the "Bushmaster Rifle" - Bushmaster used to make their own 'AW type' before they made AR-15s. Looked more like an AK. That is the rifle the law mentions by name.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:52:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By 9supercomp:
Bushmaster is selling one with a stamped barrel (HBAR). They say we can sell them as regular rifles, but will not give a written statements as such.


Bushmaster sells MOST of their rifles as HBARS.
The Gun Rack in Burtonsville has a wide variety of Bushmaster HBARS in a variety of configurations.



Bought my Bush-bitch from Al at the Gun Rack. Definitely my favorite gun ever.
Al is a bit of a grump most of the time I go in there, but the youngr guy, I believe his name is Hugh, is pretty cool to talk to about gun stuff. Usually when I have him show me something he gets on a roll. I think The Gun Rack sells a lot of HBARs for this reason.

I'm not sure about buying long rifles out of states that don't neighbor MD. I know if you go to say Quantico Arms in VA they will only sell you long rifles if you are an MD resident... no pistols or AR's (pretty sure that also applies to HBARs, but don't hold me to that.) Same rule for PA. Beyond that check the laws.

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:11:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 11:13:10 PM EST by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 3:19:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By 9supercomp:


As for going to another state to purchase in a private sale is against the law also.
You can not buy or sell outside your state of residency on any long gun.
If you want something, it must be transfered to an FFL in your state..



Actually you can buy a long gun (A non-MD regulated kind) in another state IF that long gun is not a regulated firearm.

I have done it in DE and here in CO when I first arrived before getting my Colorado Drivers license.

IF I would have bought an AR before I got my CO DL and brought it back to MD that would be breaking MD law.

Now that I got my CO license, AR's AK's all the works, fill out the 4474 pay the guy and I am out the door in about 15 minutes.



How long do youhave to live in CO to be able to get the drivers license and be considered a legal resident? I would have figured at least a few months, otherwise people would be state-border jumping everywhere to get a license to buy guns in another state... They must require some way for you to prove you're not just there vacationing, right?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:47:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Actually you can buy a long gun (A non-MD regulated kind) in another state IF that long gun is not a regulated firearm.


Ric,
The question was on PRIVATE sales. Those you cannot legally do with people from another state (that is Federal Law). The only time you can purchase from someone in another state is if you go through a FFL.

-Forest
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:59:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 11:03:14 AM EST by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:36:43 PM EST
About two and a half months ago I spoke to a sargeant at the Firearms division about buying a AR that had begun life as a stripped receiver but which was now 100% complete. I told him that it was a RRA lower with a Colt upper. If I can find the sargeant's name I will post it but he told me :

QUOTE:

" It DOES NOT MATTER what the receiver has stamped on it BUT the BARREL has to have HBAR legibly stamped on it , even if the barrel and receiver are made by different companies".

He also mentioned that any brand AR rifle besides Colt that is marked HBAR was exempt from having to go through the extra paperwork and waiting period and could be transferred as a regular rifle.



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