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Posted: 4/17/2013 2:41:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2013 3:49:50 AM EDT by MattDamnit]
Riding with a friend and they had a checkpoint in Pulaski County. Got stopped, they then started asking names and when they asked for mine I simply said Sir I don't want to give mine, he got all huffy (He was about 5'4 with blonde hair) and asked if I wanted to go to jail, I then asked for what? He said being a dumbass. This was out of line, rude, and very childish for a State Trooper. I asked for his badge number and he quickly left and had this constable come over and tell me I was going to jail for "interfering with government business and being a john doe"

Yet again, I told him I wasn't being disrespectful but I don't have to give my name. He said it was a DUI checkpoint, to which I said I'm not driving. He started yelling so I said fuck it, ( I had no I.D. on me) so I gave him my social. He came back yelling again saying if I didnt' quit lying he would take me to jail. Turns out the idiots ran my SS wrong. He came back didn't apologize and said a bunch of bull. I told him I know my rights but when I feel threatened you back me into a corner it's not right. Of course he says no one is going to hurt you.

I'm about a year away from my degree, and I hope to become an LEO. But when the fuck did the job become filled with men who have no respect for the average citizen or their rights? Don't get me wrong, I would have glady given my name but these guys were nosey as shit asking where we were going, what we were doing. I don't have to answer that, as lame as it sounds, this isn't nazi germany.

Damn shame these cops use intimidation when they should make the citizen feel safer. I'd love to have not said anything but that shit ain't worth getting the fuck stomped out of me and the "Footage" being lost or some shit like that. In this area the bad cops kill the good ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Catron
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 4:38:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2013 5:27:23 AM EDT by IHC53]
Welcome to America, 2013.

Please enjoy your stay.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 9:10:56 AM EDT
Yep. If the good don't start reigning in the bad, public support will fall further than it already has.

I'm a former deputy and though there ARE good people in the profession, as a rule I have ZERO trust for LE these days. Sad times.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 11:14:29 AM EDT
I know a lot of LEO's, and while I dont always agree with the way they handle some of these situations a small part of me understands why some of them act the way they do. In this crazy society with all the nuts out there, they never know who it is they are stopping or how they will react when confronted. While you may not  have a legal responsibility to always respond to their questions or demands and they may or may not have a legal right to ask them of you, it makes the whole situation go so much smoother to just respond with respect and show them you are not a threat to them. Even though they may be in the wrong, most of them now a days approach every situation as though they are dealing with a criminal or some nut case, it will usally defuse the situation very quickly by responding with respect, the majority of them will return the respect and change their attitude when they see you are a law abiding citzen and you are breaking no laws.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 11:16:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2013 11:18:12 AM EDT by MattDamnit]
I was extremely nice to the officer, called him Sir, and kept my voice calm. He was extremely rude and out of line. You can't treat everyone like criminals.

I put my handgun on the dash to have it out in the open so they knew I had a weapon, I could have left it in the glovebox. Sadly they didn't even notice the handgun.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 12:55:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2013 1:38:54 PM EDT by bjesse60]
I have a hard time respecting Leo's as I have only met a few who actually deserved it. Most want to push the "your a civilian and I am above you bullshit".  Fuck that, if I break a law  give me a ticket & send me on my way, but I don't need anything else from you. I understand the idiots they deal with on a daily basis & the dangers they face, but they chose the profession not me. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I personally don't need them to do anything for me, they don't make me feel any safer, if there is a problem I will try my best to handle it or leave, not wait till someone comes to my rescue. This is what is wrong with our country today, everyone wants/needs help.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 12:58:01 PM EDT
Some are power hungry assholes that think that badge on their chest gives them the right to treat people how ever they want, but really most are decent people. I was pulled over once for a headlight being out, when I leaned over to get my registration and insurance out of the glovebox he seen my pistol in my pants. Next thing I know Im at gun point and he's telling me to freeze. I stopped and kept my hands in the air and told him I had a permit and asked him what he wanted me to do. He opened the door and had me back out of the truck, he asked if he could remove my pistol, I told him thats fine. Once he had my pistol he asked if I had anyother weapons, I said no. He asked for my drivers license and CCDW, I handed them to him and he went to his car. He came back a couple minuets later and handed me my pistol and ID, he appoligized and told me to fix my headlight and he left. That situation could have turned very nasty if I had not complied with his instructions or if I had tried to tell him what the law says he can or cant do. I tend to let them be the Alpha dog in those situations right or wrong and try to put myself in their position facing an armed unknown subject, but thats just me I guess.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 1:18:51 PM EDT
Sure, there are some bad cops out there, but most of the ones I know are good people. Given the crap that they put-up with for low pay I'm willing to give them wide latitude. Yes, aggressive policing will sometimes lead to them (accidently) violating my rights; but so long as that doesn’t result in a criminal record, a false arrest, significant cost or loss of property, or significant physical harm I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They have a hard job; I only ask that they do their best.

My personal story was getting profiled. I was driving-home at 4am after a long night out and got pulled-over for not signaling a turn. As soon as the cop saw that I wasn’t drunk I was sent on my way. It happened again when I made my girlfriend ride with her head out the window as she’d been throwing-up drunk. The officer tried to get me to admit that she hadn’t had her seatbelt on (I said “I took mine off to get my wallet” and made no mention of how she buckled her’s as the cop was approaching the car). As soon as the cop saw that I wasn’t drunk and verified with the girlfriend that she was in-fact there of her own free will we were sent on our merry way. Sure I was subjected to a little hassle, but they were trying to prevent drunk driving. I applaud their efforts.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 3:46:20 PM EDT
Honestly in my area of Kentucky I've had far more good encounters with LEO's than I have bad ones. Although I had two incidents in which I feel the cops were somewhat out of line or at least nearing the line. First was a fugitive search at my home that I had just moved into, I had not changed my address yet. Apparently some lady who sold drugs used to live at or used my address as hers over a year before they came looking for her. I was not home at the time but my father was and he let them in they searched, found some of my guns that were not hidden well and unloaded them. I tried to obtain a copy of the search warrant the next day but gave up after getting the run around.

The other time was while passenger in a car at a KSP "safety checkpoint" out in the middle of nowhere. The vehicle I was riding in had no license plate and was not registered to the driver due to a title SNAFU, but was insured. One of the state cops stood out from the other because he wore grey BDU's he questioned the hell out of us asking about weapons and everything else, seems to me he really wanted to be a dick but there was a superior on-scene who let us go and told the driver to get the car registered before he drove it anymore. We promptly left and made a cardboard sign that we hung up the road that warned of the roadblock.

Neither of these situations were nearly as bad as encounters I have heard of, know about or been part of in other states.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 8:07:57 PM EDT
I never chime in on these things but here we go...

Positive, last Saturday some friends and I were out drinking. Lady friend (dd) drove me home, hit a KSP checkpoint on 313 joeprather around 230am. He asked for her license, told him i had and attempted to give him my ccw license, he just looked at it and asked if in had a gun on me which I replied yes. He said ok, asked the driver if she had been drinking, she responded no but i said I had which is why she was driving, looked at the plate and sent us on our way telling us to have a safe night.

Bad, doing 55 in a 50 came up behind a KSP car going the same. A car was going around 50. He hit his lights, causing said car to pull over, then accelerated to roughly 80mph. I followed, roughly an eighth mile later he shut his lights off, then proceeded at 55-60mph. Obviously used his lights to get through traffic, more than likely to get home as it was 5pm.
Link Posted: 4/17/2013 11:55:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2013 12:05:25 AM EDT by Tankdawg0057]
Originally Posted By richiemfmead:
I never chime in on these things but here we go...

Positive, last Saturday some friends and I were out drinking. Lady friend (dd) drove me home, hit a KSP checkpoint on 313 joeprather around 230am. He asked for her license, told him i had and attempted to give him my ccw license, he just looked at it and asked if in had a gun on me which I replied yes. He said ok, asked the driver if she had been drinking, she responded no but i said I had which is why she was driving, looked at the plate and sent us on our way telling us to have a safe night.

Bad, doing 55 in a 50 came up behind a KSP car going the same. A car was going around 50. He hit his lights, causing said car to pull over, then accelerated to roughly 80mph. I followed, roughly an eighth mile later he shut his lights off, then proceeded at 55-60mph. Obviously used his lights to get through traffic, more than likely to get home as it was 5pm.


4 lane?  They will do that to get the slow left lane drivers to move over, and yes it is an actual traffic violation to drive slow in the passing lane.  Also there are times that calls come in from dispatch that require a lights and siren response then minutes later the call is either cancelled or degraded below a lights and siren response.  So do you continue to the downgraded fender bender driving 80 with lights and sirens that came out originally on the radio as a horrendous crash?  No you don't, you turn em off and drive reasonable.  Don't always assume things unless you know that is what he/she was doing.
Link Posted: 4/18/2013 6:47:26 AM EDT
We're all guilty of it from time to time, judging others based solely on one side of the story. It helps sometimes to stop and try to put yourself in their position, especially where the cops are concerned. They have no idea who you are, what your intentions are, how you will respond to confrontation. Now a days they have no idea what they are going to run into with even a simple traffic stop. They have a tuff and possibly dangerous job and in rare occasions their safety and the safety of others around them can be in jeapordy if they are not on guard.
Link Posted: 4/18/2013 8:47:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2013 8:52:26 AM EDT by MattDamnit]
Originally Posted By ShootnNut:
We're all guilty of it from time to time, judging others based solely on one side of the story. It helps sometimes to stop and try to put yourself in their position, especially where the cops are concerned. They have no idea who you are, what your intentions are, how you will respond to confrontation. Now a days they have no idea what they are going to run into with even a simple traffic stop. They have a tuff and possibly dangerous job and in rare occasions their safety and the safety of others around them can be in jeapordy if they are not on guard.


That's no excuse, at all. You are not forced into the job. My constitutional rights, and the rights laid out by the law are more important than you feeling safe and violating them, and if someone can't handle that Law Enforcement isn't the route to go. I myself am going for the LEO route.
Link Posted: 4/18/2013 8:48:05 AM EDT
Three lane, one either way and a center turning lane. The fact he turned his lights off almost immediatley once he passed the traffic seemed suspicious. And they were going five over, which was obviously technically speeding but apparently not fast enough for whatever other business he needed to attend to.
Link Posted: 4/18/2013 11:14:02 AM EDT
Nobody is talking about violating anyones consititutional rights. The OP said the officer asked him his name and he responded he didnt want to give it to him. Asking someones name is not violating their consititutional rights, asking someone where they are going is not violating their rights. On these check points they are looking for people under the influence, they ask these questions not because they care where your going or who you are, they do it to get you talking to see if you are drunk or not. Theres no law that says you have to give them an answer, but it makes things go a lot easier if you just answer his questions, when you refuse it makes them feel like you have something to hide and puts them on the defensive. In some States with vagerance laws refusing to identify yourself or presenting some form of ID you can be arrested and taken to jail where you either tell them who you are or produce some ID or you will sit there until they run your prints or ID you in someother way to make sure your not a criminal or wanted for something. If your a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide why would you want to go through all that crap, tell the guy your name and move on.
Link Posted: 4/18/2013 6:48:14 PM EDT
When I refuse to give my name and get threatened to be taken to jail, my rights were violated. It's pretty clear.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 5:42:41 AM EDT
What Consititutional Right was violated? Most States have vagrency laws which requires you to identify yourself, no big deal, like anytime your questioned by the police you have the right to remain silent. But if you choose to use that right in this case then they have the right under the law to arrest you and take you to jail until they can figure out who you are and if your not a fugitive from justice or wanted for some reason they will release you to go on your way. If your right to remain silent is that important to you then by all means exercise that right, but for me, Im a law abiding citizen and have nothing to hide and I would rather identify myself and avoid all the hassle.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 10:58:25 AM EDT
You keep mentioning that law, I don't think you understand it at all. How would that apply to a passenger in a vehicle? It wouldn't. As for being arrested till they find out who I am, that's fucking retarded. Being coerced into giving my name by threatening me with an unlawful arrest/detention violates plenty.

It shouldn't ever be just to comply to what a cop wants. People have rights, cops are here to protect and not bully. It would be even different had they actually thought I "did some crime" but these children were just mad I asserted my right and they went on a power trip.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 2:53:07 PM EDT
Im not aware of any law in Kentucky requiring someone to identify themselves to an officer when asked unless they're suspected of a crime. As a passenger in a vehicle, a person has no duty to even acknowledge the officer since it was a DUI checkpoint.

An officer just can't walk up to someone and demand to see their papers.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 3:19:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flb_78:
Im not aware of any law in Kentucky requiring someone to identify themselves to an officer when asked unless they're suspected of a crime. As a passenger in a vehicle, a person has no duty to even acknowledge the officer since it was a DUI checkpoint.

An officer just can't walk up to someone and demand to see their papers.


They called it a "safety checkpoint". But I'm glad someone else has some common sense. I called the London post and he said I did have my rights, I told them well don't have your officers threaten those who use them. The sgt was extremely nice, lord knows if he did anything though.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 3:43:54 PM EDT
I can't believe DUI checkpoints are still legal since there is no evidence they do anything except inconvenience and violate the rights of every innocent motorist that passes through them.
It's a "show me your papers" zone with the excuse of looking for DUI offenders.
If the sole purpose of a DUI checkpoint was limited in scope to that purpose, law enforcement wouldn't even bother to do them.
Link Posted: 4/20/2013 4:05:11 AM EDT
Lets see here:
- How many people have their house or car broken into, personal property stolen?
- How many people are injured or killed by a drunk driver or someone on drugs?
- How many people are abused, raped, murdered?
Of course you can also throw in dealing with Drug Cartels, Gangs, and Organized Crime.

Most people don't deal with any of it on a daily basis, but when they do, life is a very different story.

Who gets to "go to work" and potentially deal with any or all of that on a daily basis, with no gurantee that they are going to come home at the end of the shift?

YES, there are some Officers who have issues, but they are the exception and not the rule.

As they say, until you have walked a couple days in their shoes, and dealt with stuff that would drive most people over the edge, then I would say cut them slack, and be thankful that someone is willing to put their life on the line to try and make the world a better place for all of us.

If you do run into one of the few who are not doing as they should, then by all means report it to their superiors.

Otherwise, think about the $#!@ that the Officer may be dealing with who is addressing you, and ultimately what is their real goal and motivation.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson
Link Posted: 4/20/2013 8:31:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2013 8:41:31 AM EDT by 7255]
Originally Posted By ShootnNut:
What Consititutional Right was violated? Most States have vagrency laws which requires you to identify yourself, no big deal, like anytime your questioned by the police you have the right to remain silent. But if you choose to use that right in this case then they have the right under the law to arrest you and take you to jail until they can figure out who you are and if your not a fugitive from justice or wanted for some reason they will release you to go on your way. If your right to remain silent is that important to you then by all means exercise that right, but for me, Im a law abiding citizen and have nothing to hide and I would rather identify myself and avoid all the hassle.


You realize vagrancy laws are more closely related to homeless folks and drifters than passengers in cars. Or do you support cops abusing the law if "for the common good" or some bullshit like that?

ETA: What you're thinking of is called "Stop and Identify". Kentucky has no such law. OP is not obligated to identify, and can not be detained for failing to identify.
Link Posted: 4/20/2013 8:54:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By captrichardson:
Lets see here:
- How many people have their house or car broken into, personal property stolen?
- How many people are injured or killed by a drunk driver or someone on drugs?
- How many people are abused, raped, murdered?
Of course you can also throw in dealing with Drug Cartels, Gangs, and Organized Crime.

Most people don't deal with any of it on a daily basis, but when they do, life is a very different story.

Who gets to "go to work" and potentially deal with any or all of that on a daily basis, with no gurantee that they are going to come home at the end of the shift?

YES, there are some Officers who have issues, but they are the exception and not the rule.

As they say, until you have walked a couple days in their shoes, and dealt with stuff that would drive most people over the edge, then I would say cut them slack, and be thankful that someone is willing to put their life on the line to try and make the world a better place for all of us.

If you do run into one of the few who are not doing as they should, then by all means report it to their superiors.

Otherwise, think about the $#!@ that the Officer may be dealing with who is addressing you, and ultimately what is their real goal and motivation.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson



No, I'm not going to put up with shit just because they took a job they can't handle.
In my actual experience of working in law enforcement and with public safety agencies, its an us vs them mentality and anybody that isn't in their circle is a target.
I left because I didn't want to be associated with bullies that ARE a large percentage of the department.

Made the move to EMS and its WORSE there. Paramedics who hate their job and frequent flyers so much that they brag about committing medical malpractice just to give their patients pain as payback. Instructors who give you tips on how you can perform unnecessary procedures on certain patients just to get some practice because those patients can't say no. Sub-standard care because the responders don't have the physical requirements to perform effective CPR for any meaningful amount of time. Healthcare fraud, taught by instructors, reinforced by departments who want $$$.


These things aren't the exception to the rule, they ARE the rule and because they let it continue, it pervades the minds of the newbies who come to accept it as part of the job.

I guarantee if it was standard practice to record encounters of "us" and it was standard practice to let "them" watch them all, many people would be out of jobs and the standard of hiring and retention would change dramatically in public safety.

Link Posted: 4/20/2013 9:08:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2013 9:15:42 AM EDT by MattDamnit]
I'll tell you the same shit I tell people in the military who play that card all day, nobody forced you into that shit. Don't use your job as an excuse to be a jackass or break the rules, especially to infringe on the rights of others.

But show my an honest soldier or officer, I will glady help your family while your away, donate to the fallen brother fund, give you respect you deserve and hold you above most. I'll call you sir or ma'am, be polite and respect and understand you do have it rough.

My issue comes from being respectful, to having some country bumpkin cops get pissed I asserted my rights and being insulted, then when I want the officers info or badge number he runs. It's cowardly to insult someone, act childish and then avoid them when you learn they know a thing or two.
Link Posted: 4/22/2013 9:32:18 AM EDT
So why did you not want tell them your name?
Link Posted: 4/22/2013 2:24:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RWEIII:
So why did you not want tell them your name?


So what's your name?
Link Posted: 4/22/2013 5:07:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2013 5:08:33 PM EDT by MattDamnit]
Originally Posted By RWEIII:
So why did you not want tell them your name?


Because I don't have to. Simple as that.

What's your full name? Where do you live? Where you headed, where you been? Care to answer all these for me just because? Didn't think so.
Link Posted: 4/22/2013 5:15:43 PM EDT
Difference is that here, you can't threaten him if he doesn't provide his personal information.  
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:35:17 AM EDT
John Smith
124 Maple Tree Lane
Lexington, Ky

Don't worry, my tea bags hang heavy.  And like you, I have met a few jackasses with badges but have met many more folks with badges that are good to go and will put their life down for yours if it comes to it...

Just seems that if you had simply told him your name he may not have gone all rambo on you...  I agree, he didn't have to be an ass but maybe if you would have just told him your name it would have ended there...  Maybe they were looking for someone who just happened to look like you?
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 12:14:21 PM EDT
Balls =/= Brains


Also you really shouldn't post your address online like that, I'm not an asshole, but there are people like aRock who are shitty, and if you don't know who that is google Arock ar15.

I didn't give my name because he simply didn't need it. He saw a bunch of guys with headlamps and wanted to get nosey and then became rude when he was confronted about it. Cops are public servants, the only time I need to answer to one is when I'm suspected of a crime or have committed one.

I've been pulled over before and given a ticket when I waved at a cop, he waved back and saw I didn't my
Seatbelt on and wrote me a ticket for it. Did I think he was a fuck wad? Yeah, but I thanked him and shook his hand because he was polite and had a reason for his actions.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 4:05:05 PM EDT
Lets not get started on Kentucky's primary offense seatbelt law.

Link Posted: 4/23/2013 4:17:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arfarf:
Lets not get started on Kentucky's primary offense seatbelt law.



Do you mean how fucking stupid it is I have to wear a seat belt and it goes up in price everytime I get caught without one while the 23 year old idiot on his crotch rocket doesn't have to wear a helmet?

Hehehe
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:05:47 PM EDT
You are correct about not having to give your name as a passenger.  But making this big of a deal about, I predict a short career in LE. You got to let shit go and don't trash a profession you appear to be interested in. There are shitty people in every job, just like the shitty people you will deal with everyday in your career if you make it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 11:08:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 11:15:26 PM EDT by MattDamnit]
Originally Posted By Bushmaster-M4gery:
You are correct about not having to give your name as a passenger.  But making this big of a deal about, I predict a short career in LE. You got to let shit go and don't trash a profession you appear to be interested in. There are shitty people in every job, just like the shitty people you will deal with everyday in your career if you make it.


Don't see how any of this is bashing a profession. And when people "let shit go" nothing changes, that's why the "Shit" will continue to happen. I guess you didn't read much of the post or thread, because even the dickheads I dealt with were treated with respect, which made them angrier.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 2:39:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MattDamnit:
Riding with a friend and they had a checkpoint in Pulaski County. Got stopped, they then started asking names and when they asked for mine I simply said Sir I don't want to give mine, he got all huffy (He was about 5'4 with blonde hair) and asked if I wanted to go to jail, I then asked for what? He said being a dumbass. This was out of line, rude, and very childish for a State Trooper. I asked for his badge number and he quickly left and had this constable come over and tell me I was going to jail for "interfering with government business and being a john doe"

Yet again, I told him I wasn't being disrespectful but I don't have to give my name. He said it was a DUI checkpoint, to which I said I'm not driving. He started yelling so I said fuck it, ( I had no I.D. on me) so I gave him my social. He came back yelling again saying if I didnt' quit lying he would take me to jail. Turns out the idiots ran my SS wrong. He came back didn't apologize and said a bunch of bull. I told him I know my rights but when I feel threatened you back me into a corner it's not right. Of course he says no one is going to hurt you.

I'm about a year away from my degree, and I hope to become an LEO. But when the fuck did the job become filled with men who have no respect for the average citizen or their rights? Don't get me wrong, I would have glady given my name but these guys were nosey as shit asking where we were going, what we were doing. I don't have to answer that, as lame as it sounds, this isn't nazi germany.

Damn shame these cops use intimidation when they should make the citizen feel safer. I'd love to have not said anything but that shit ain't worth getting the fuck stomped out of me and the "Footage" being lost or some shit like that. In this area the bad cops kill the good ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Catron



Been that way as long as I can remember. Lots of dip shits who think they are God once they get that badge on. Not everyone I have worked with a bunch of great cops.
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