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Posted: 4/13/2006 7:27:39 AM EDT
For now.



TABC suspends stings at bars
Public outcry led to review of program



11:26 PM CDT on Wednesday, April 12, 2006
Associated Press



The Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said Wednesday that it has suspended a crackdown on public intoxication after an outcry over the program that sends undercover officers into drinking establishments.

Spokeswoman Carolyn Beck said the agency first announced its decision Tuesday in a letter to state Rep. Kino Flores, chairman of the House Licensing and Administrative Procedures Committee.

The Palmview Democrat had asked the head of the commission, Alan Steen, last month to consider a moratorium on the program until a hearing scheduled for Monday.

The commission announced last week that it was conducting an internal investigation of the program.

Ms. Beck said the commission opted to put the program on hold "just to give us time to sift through all the information we've received and pull together all the information and determine the best way to proceed."

The hearing Monday will continue as planned and will also include the Senate Criminal Justice Committee, Ms. Beck said.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:11:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 10:16:09 AM EDT by plarkinjr]
GOOD!
Maybe now they'll have time to fight some real crime.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:32:13 AM EDT
How about worrying about the border, instead of what some dumbass is doing in side a bar.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:49:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:59:02 PM EDT
Perhaps disbanding the TABC is in order? That would be about as effective as a pop on the nose with a rolled up newspaper to get these assholes in order.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 1:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gator96:
Perhaps disbanding the TABC is in order? That would be about as effective as a pop on the nose with a rolled up newspaper to get these assholes in order.



Supposedly that is a possibility.

Someone told me that the TABC, and some other if not most other Texas state agencies (IIRC) have sunset provisions in the laws that set them up. So every several years our Texas politicans have to keep voting to keep said agencies around.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 1:30:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
GOOD!
Maybe now they'll have time to fight some real crime.



And real crime for TABC is what.. minor in possession, no tax stamps on bottles, drinking alcohol in public after 2:15M?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 1:35:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
Someone told me that the TABC, and some other if not most other Texas state agencies (IIRC) have sunset provisions in the laws that set them up. So every several years our Texas politicans have to keep voting to keep said agencies around.



I don't think they have a sunset but even if they do, the enforcement will not stop. They may be combined with DPS as a division but it would be no different than when the feds combined INS with Customs into what is now called ICE. Same function and same agents but combined under a central name and agency.

So many people on this forum think that TABC is nothing more than a taxing agency for the state. Given that as a premise, who do you think runs DPS, a different legislature than TABC? It all comes from the same government and the same laws apply. Simply changing the name or combining it with another state agency won't change anything.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:49:38 PM EDT
I love all the whining about TABC doing this all of sudden. They've been doing it for years and only announced it for the headlines and to make people aware. I've got friends who work there and do a whole lot more than arrests PIs in a bar. More street cops across this state make more PI arrests inside bars than TABC ever thought of doing.  All the agents I know prefer to arrest PIs before they get in the vehicles and drive drunk.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:23:33 AM EDT
Ok. sir, maybe street cops do make more arrests for PI's across the state, but can you honestly tell me that the State of Texas has nothing better to do than to investigate and prosecute Minors, or perhaps Bootleggers? There is no other better resource for my (19 year old tax dollars, which happen to be on trial for consuming alcohol under 21) tax dollars than to go after those who either decide to drink under 21, as an adult,  or those to drink in excess. As a tax paying citizen, who has also had to register for the selective service, I dont find this realistic. It just seems really stupid. If you are a police officer, is that what you really signed up for, to arrest people who are Publicly Intoxed, or maybe under the age of 21, and be a hypocryite. Plese serioulsy reject my paragraph without being a liar or hypocrite. Please.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:33:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gator96:
Ok. sir, maybe street cops do make more arrests for PI's across the state, but can you honestly tell me that the State of Texas has nothing better to do than to investigate and prosecute Minors, or perhaps Bootleggers? There is no other better resource for my (19 year old tax dollars, which happen to be on trial for consuming alcohol under 21) tax dollars than to go after those who either decide to drink under 21, as an adult,  or those to drink in excess. As a tax paying citizen, who has also had to register for the selective service, I dont find this realistic. It just seems really stupid. If you are a police officer, is that what you really signed up for, to arrest people who are Publicly Intoxed, or maybe under the age of 21, and be a hypocryite. Plese serioulsy reject my paragraph without being a liar or hypocrite. Please.



It is hard to understand your statement but I think you said it is stupid to sign up for the draft and yet not be able to drink until 21. Is that correct?

As far as what officers sign up for, it is to enforce all laws. I don't think any officer signed up to only chase murder suspects. Then again, they have a realistic view of police work, not what you got off of CSI, Law and Order or some other show.

TABC agents sign up knowing that most of the laws they will enforce will be misdemeanors and with most of those being Class C which is the lowest degree laws in the state. So yes, they knew exactly what they signed up for. Texas DPS, while they work other crimes, mostly issues traffic citations and works accidents. Like TABC, most of what the average trooper does is Class C misdemeanors and traffic citations. They also knew what they signed up for.

I am not sure how that makes any of them liars or hypocrites.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:28:28 AM EDT
Before this I didnt know that TABC could even do stuff like this..........


Damn, I am going to watch out for those guys..............well, try to at least......
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:25:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
Before this I didnt know that TABC could even do stuff like this..........


Damn, I am going to watch out for those guys..............well, try to at least......




You won't have any trouble seeing them.  The ones around here are about 400 lbs..
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 11:26:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 11:31:40 AM EDT by plarkinjr]

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
GOOD!
Maybe now they'll have time to fight some real crime.



And real crime for TABC is what.. minor in possession, no tax stamps on bottles, drinking alcohol in public after 2:15M?



Thanks for pointing out the sillyness!

(perhaps those LEO's could be assigned to an agency that might really protect us)
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:02:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 10mmillie:
I love all the whining about TABC doing this all of sudden. They've been doing it for years and only announced it for the headlines and to make people aware. I've got friends who work there and do a whole lot more than arrests PIs in a bar. More street cops across this state make more PI arrests inside bars than TABC ever thought of doing.  All the agents I know prefer to arrest PIs before they get in the vehicles and drive drunk.



Are all the agents you know reliable psychics and/or fortunetellers, do they know for a fact who is going to leave and drive drunk, or all they just making assumptions?

I do not support a department of pre-crime.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:52:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
Are all the agents you know reliable psychics and/or fortunetellers, do they know for a fact who is going to leave and drive drunk, or all they just making assumptions?

I do not support a department of pre-crime.



The pre-crime argument is bogus. Presumption of a potential DWI is not an element of Public Intoxication. The TABC just wanted to crack down on PI to help curb DWI, which it probably did. If they had said they wanted to crack down on PI to stop bar fights or assaults, you would have never heard of the issue. They tried to make a political statement by saying they were going to enforce an existing law and played the town crier when doing it. They managed to impress MADD and piss off a bunch of other people.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 9:55:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:
The TABC just wanted to crack down on PI to help curb DWI, which it probably did.



How does arresting people who are not intoxicated per DWI law, do not have vehicles and will not be leaving the hotel since their room is upstairs curb DWI? I never understood that. Seems if that was your goal you would target West End, Deep Ellum and other bars where vehicle travel to/from is common, or even professional sporting events and concerts.

And instead if hitting them with a useless PI, let them get to the car and hit them with a DWI.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:52:49 AM EDT
The premise of Public Intoxication as a crime is an unconstitutional infringement of our civil liberties.

If they want to cite drunk and disorderly, that's an entirely different issue.

This is a BS law.  
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 8:23:49 AM EDT
A friend was ticketed for PI and given a free ride downtown... because he was outside the bar, waiting for his taxi to arrive.  Sure prevented a DWI there!
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 9:37:49 AM EDT
i want to by whisky on sundays!!!

Link Posted: 4/15/2006 11:24:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
How does arresting people who are not intoxicated per DWI law, do not have vehicles and will not be leaving the hotel since their room is upstairs curb DWI? I never understood that. Seems if that was your goal you would target West End, Deep Ellum and other bars where vehicle travel to/from is common, or even professional sporting events and concerts.

And instead if hitting them with a useless PI, let them get to the car and hit them with a DWI.



The 0.08 alcohol concentration for DWI will not get you even close to a Public Intoxication. Most people that are intoxicated at 0.08 show very few indications of being intoxicated, if any. To show enough indications of intoxication to get you arrested for PI, you need a lot more alcohol in you than the DWI standard.

I have no idea how they pick their targets. I don't work for TABC and they don't work that program in my part of the state as far as I know.

You could allow a person to get in the vehicle and start it up and get the DWI. You could probably do one per night considering the time consumed for the required paperwork. You could get a couple of PI's at a time and be back out in a few minutes. It is a matter of time involved.

A better way to reduce the DWI's by using the PI statute would be to let the person walk to the car and maybe put the key in the driver's door. Then arrest them for PI as it would be fairly certain that the person was going to be DWI just as soon as he entered the car. You could still get the speedy PI arrest and you would be targeting the driver instead of arresting several people in the hope of getting the right one that would eventually drive.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 11:25:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
The premise of Public Intoxication as a crime is an unconstitutional infringement of our civil liberties.
This is a BS law.  



Please cite the case that shows PI is unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 2:03:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
The premise of Public Intoxication as a crime is an unconstitutional infringement of our civil liberties.
This is a BS law.  



Please cite the case that shows PI is unconstitutional.



That old rag that talks about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" among other liberties.

I know... that position is SO played out.  Especially in the days of securing das Homeland.  
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 2:42:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Please cite the case that shows PI is unconstitutional.



That old rag that talks about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" among other liberties.

I know... that position is SO played out.  Especially in the days of securing das Homeland.  



When I took civics, "life, liberty and the puruit of happiness" was in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. Maybe the revisionists have changed that also.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:32:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:01:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:
The 0.08 alcohol concentration for DWI will not get you even close to a Public Intoxication. Most people that are intoxicated at 0.08 show very few indications of being intoxicated, if any. To show enough indications of intoxication to get you arrested for PI, you need a lot more alcohol in you than the DWI standard.



date
county
person
in­toxicated
in a public place
to the extent he/she MAY be a danger to him/herself or others

MAY= if a cop says so
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:15:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By B2:

Originally Posted By tvc184:
The 0.08 alcohol concentration for DWI will not get you even close to a Public Intoxication. Most people that are intoxicated at 0.08 show very few indications of being intoxicated, if any. To show enough indications of intoxication to get you arrested for PI, you need a lot more alcohol in you than the DWI standard.



date
county
person
in­toxicated
in a public place
to the extent he/she MAY be a danger to him/herself or others

MAY= if a cop says so



Yep, that is what the Penal Code says, "may endanger".  It goes by the opinion of the officer making the arrest. An arrest without a warrant is always due to the opinion of an officer and it is that way for every law, not just PI. I didn't know the cops had the power to convict though. I thought guilty or not guilty was reserved for a judge or jury.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:26:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:

Originally Posted By rogue007:
Before this I didnt know that TABC could even do stuff like this..........


Damn, I am going to watch out for those guys..............well, try to at least......




You won't have any trouble seeing them.  The ones around here are about 400 lbs..



And dressed like douchebags. And acting like Miami Vice.

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