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Posted: 2/21/2007 1:37:13 PM EST
I moved back to Richmond after living in Fredericksburg for the past 5 years. I'm looking for a range or club to shoot pistol, rifle and shotgun. What are my options? I'm in Midlothian and willing to drive about 30 minutes if needed.

I'm interested in 3 gun matches if anyone knows of a place to take part too.

Thanks,
Brian
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 2:47:31 PM EST
Check out the listing at the top of the VAHTF page it has a topic for ranges.

There are a few to choose from in Central VA
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 5:54:23 PM EST
Blackcreek gun range in nearby Hanover County has 3 gun matches. See their website for information.

http://bcidpa.kicks-ass.net/
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 3:32:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By CCPD:
Blackcreek gun range in nearby Hanover County has 3 gun matches. See their website for information.

http://bcidpa.kicks-ass.net/


Yeah, try this place. It's almost like shooting in a combat environment except instead of combat going on you have annoying old men yelling at you and trying to make you leave. This place sucks ass. If you like shooting from mildewed concrete and rusty office chairs at a rotten piece of ply-wood for a birm then this is the place for you. These guys are assholes.
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 6:58:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By va_gunz:

Originally Posted By CCPD:
Blackcreek gun range in nearby Hanover County has 3 gun matches. See their website for information.

http://bcidpa.kicks-ass.net/


Yeah, try this place. It's almost like shooting in a combat environment except instead of combat going on you have annoying old men yelling at you and trying to make you leave. This place sucks ass. If you like shooting from mildewed concrete and rusty office chairs at a rotten piece of ply-wood for a birm then this is the place for you. These guys are assholes.


I guess you have never shot IDPA or the 3 gun matches down there. Totally different enviroment. We use the lower ranges for the matches. Granted, KC can be difficult to get along with, but he leaves us alone when shooting matches. Come on down to either and you'll see what I mean.
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 7:31:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By koolaid:

Originally Posted By va_gunz:

Originally Posted By CCPD:
Blackcreek gun range in nearby Hanover County has 3 gun matches. See their website for information.

http://bcidpa.kicks-ass.net/


Yeah, try this place. It's almost like shooting in a combat environment except instead of combat going on you have annoying old men yelling at you and trying to make you leave. This place sucks ass. If you like shooting from mildewed concrete and rusty office chairs at a rotten piece of ply-wood for a birm then this is the place for you. These guys are assholes.


I guess you have never shot IDPA or the 3 gun matches down there. Totally different enviroment. We use the lower ranges for the matches. Granted, KC can be difficult to get along with, but he leaves us alone when shooting matches. Come on down to either and you'll see what I mean.



Agree - the 3gun environment is 100% different than what you describe as typical "during the weeK" shooting. Very cool group of guys - plus rapid fire AR & pistol shooting on the run. ounds a lot better than just sitting there at a bench, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 5:54:12 PM EST
What about Cavalier in Hanover? I heard they had some openings? Does anybody know the dues?
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 6:23:17 PM EST
Black Creek is a good range. I have had no issues with KC over the 4 years I have been there. The guy has always been straight up with me. He runs a no bullshit place, it's his, I find the rules acceptable. I have witnessed him get into some folks but deservedly so. The IDPA is run by a great group of guys and is a lot of fun. For the price the place is hard to beat.

Spence
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 6:01:26 AM EST
Conservation Park in Charles City...

Conservation Park of Virginia Inc
Phone: 804-966-7313
5100 Charles City Rd
Charles City VA 23030


fred
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 9:22:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By spence:
Black Creek is a good range. I have had no issues with KC over the 4 years I have been there. The guy has always been straight up with me. He runs a no bullshit place, it's his, I find the rules acceptable. I have witnessed him get into some folks but deservedly so. The IDPA is run by a great group of guys and is a lot of fun. For the price the place is hard to beat.

Spence


KC and his son do not fairly enforce the rules. It’s happened to me and I have seen it happen to others. I have been covered by a loaded handgun several times and informed KC of this. Not once did he take care of the situation.

It’s his range and his rules….but it’s my money so I went with setting up my own range.

300M, fun, and SAFE!

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 2:38:25 PM EST
If you are one of the annointed few who KC trusts (i.e., the few people who run the matches) then I'm sure it's a great place. I have been a member for 4 years, and been yelled at for doing various things that aren't in the rules. For example, I signed out this past Fall and drove over to the "match" ranges because I heard people shooting on steel. I just popped in, took a look, and wondered who they were and why they were allowed to shoot on the steel. KC drove over in his golf cart, yelled at me, and told me not to wander around. I've also been yelled at for shooting "too fast" on the pistol range - even though all my shots were within a 6" circle and none were through the roof border piece.

I would be very interested in the 3 gun (and IDPA/IPSC) but I don't know how I would be able to practice. I can't practice at Blackcreek, that's for sure.

I go there because it's the only real option closeby that has the facilities I need. I wish there were others.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 4:15:54 PM EST
Well, I know I am not one of the annointed few, nor am I going to be in the business of defending actions I know naught about (the sign out issue) or selling/drinking Black Creek koolaid. That said, it's told to you pretty quickly that rapid fire shooting is not wanted. So if you got chewed about it suck it up and enjoy your time or move on if you find it disagreeable. I got chewed about shotgun shell hulls that I left at the 25 yard range, I apologized and remembered to pick them up next time. KC is an older guy who deals with people very directly, it seems to me as though a lot of people have never encountered a curmudgeon before or are expecting a resort experience. Sometimes you have to put your time in with the old school before your accepted. Ever go to a new school? Basic training? Join a new hunt club? It's the same. Or sometimes they just happen to be assholes, you'll have to draw your own conclusions.

Spence

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 6:53:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 6:54:54 PM EST by dbrowne1]

Originally Posted By spence:
Well, I know I am not one of the annointed few, nor am I going to be in the business of defending actions I know naught about (the sign out issue) or selling/drinking Black Creek koolaid. That said, it's told to you pretty quickly that rapid fire shooting is not wanted. So if you got chewed about it suck it up and enjoy your time or move on if you find it disagreeable. I got chewed about shotgun shell hulls that I left at the 25 yard range, I apologized and remembered to pick them up next time. KC is an older guy who deals with people very directly, it seems to me as though a lot of people have never encountered a curmudgeon before or are expecting a resort experience. Sometimes you have to put your time in with the old school before your accepted. Ever go to a new school? Basic training? Join a new hunt club? It's the same. Or sometimes they just happen to be assholes, you'll have to draw your own conclusions.

Spence



Yes, that's all well and good, except that the term "rapid fire" isn't defined by the rules or during your orientation there. Apparently it's whatever KC thinks it is at the moment. The purpose of the rule is to prevent people from firing out of control and pulling shots into the roof or over the berm - I have never done either. I also find it odd that "rapid fire" is banned, but full auto is allowed on Saturdays (though I've never seen one there).

I don't mind people who are direct at all - I just don't like having to wonder what sets them off, and I like to know exactly what a rule means. Moving on isn't an option, as already noted. There really aren't any other ranges in the area with the same facilities.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 11:48:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 11:58:05 PM EST by kdmoore]
Couple of things.

Black Creek
KC's son, KC jr aka Buster, passed away a week or so back. Just KC around now. The club grew from a core group of .22 target shooters, that there is ANY action shooting is pretty remarkable. They have the most solid benchs to be found tho! :)

Membership just went to $100. Partial memberships are also available. I'm not a member there, so double check my info.

I think they used to have openings till late in the year, but seems like they fill up pretty quickly now, wouldn't wait around if you decide it's the one.

They have a single trap house, and numerous ranges from short (15 yards?) to 100 yards. They host hyperaccurate rimfire competitions and Cowboy action shoots (of which I know very little). Second Saturday is IDPA. Fee is now $20, they usually have a higher round count than most of the other IDPA matches. I've just started running a shotgun side match. Fee is $10 and shooting starts after IDPA is done. Round count is targeted for 50 minimum, but 2x that is the least I'd show up with. I group all into pump, semi and open, (same as NCRR below).

3gun is the last Sat of the month. For logistics, they have to limit shooters, so you need to email in your desire to shoot to Joe Fallis (match director) starting about 2 weeks before the match.

Cavalier
Just got over a fight with Hanover Co. As part of it all, they were able to up their membership. It used to take years to get in, but there are current openings. You need another member to sponser you. There are hours of operation (that is new, you used to be able to shoot 24x7). You are your own boss over there, but they are sensitive to the neighbors. Rapid shooting into a 6" circle is encouraged! Trying to learn to bump fire would not be cool.

I'm a member, but am unsure of the fees. There is an initiation fee (~250 to 300?) There is also a yearly flat fee (~200). And the bylaws allow them to charge a yearly fee for special need. As the legal battle drained a lot of money so that is currently 75 bucks.

They have ranges with tables and target stands (short to long ... ~25 yards to 500yds) and pistol bays where you can set up your own practice for IDPA/USPSA and shoot till you are out of bullets! (bring your own stage stuff and targets tho).

They have clays set up to throw everything but trap or skeet. There is a sporting clays field, and 5 stand, and some of the machines are on rails and I think there is wobble trap. I got away from shooting clays when I discovered action pistol, so I don't know all of the new games. They shoot Thursdays and Sundays. Because you are a guest of the trapper, you don't have to be a member to shoot this. Henry Baskerville is the patron there, he runs occasional hunting trips out of Richmond so always check in before you go.

There is a lot of shooting sport there. Cowboy Action, and highpower run at the 500 yd range and another version run at the 100 yd range, and others. Their IDPA is the last Sunday of the month and I think it's $10. (I don't shoot Sundays, so I don't really know). I know a lot of the regulars at that match, they are a great bunch!

Rivanna
Another place that is pretty quick to get to is Rivanna. If you don't mind commuting out west they have a GREAT facility. Indoor pistol range, outdoor trap AND skeet. Ranges for rifle/pistol. I don't know all they support, but I know their IDPA is on the Third Saturday ($10). Dues are reasonable, and are half off if you are 75 miles away. If you have more time than money, this would be the ideal choice. Once a year they have a "3gun" match. Actually, it's a pistol match, a rifle match and a shotgun match (no gun transitions).

Other Competitions

Another place to shoot IDPA is the ITI range. Not a members club to. They do a lot of training for different groups, so their calendar doesn't allow a regularly scheduled match. They have the cool facilities. There is rumor another match will be held soon. It's usually announced on the VAIDPA yahoo group.

Norfok county Rifle Range
To far to join, but I mention because you like competing with long guns. There is a shotgun match out at Norflok that is well worth the drive. When I can, I usually pool with a shooter or two and it makes for a fun day. They don't do it in the winter, but in a month or two they'll start back up. Usually 100 round minimum, and it allows you to concentrate on your shotgun skillz.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 12:23:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 12:27:31 AM EST by kdmoore]

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:

Originally Posted By spence:
Well, I know I am not one of the annointed few, nor am I going to be in the business of defending actions I know naught about (the sign out issue) or selling/drinking Black Creek koolaid. That said, it's told to you pretty quickly that rapid fire shooting is not wanted. So if you got chewed about it suck it up and enjoy your time or move on if you find it disagreeable. I got chewed about shotgun shell hulls that I left at the 25 yard range, I apologized and remembered to pick them up next time. KC is an older guy who deals with people very directly, it seems to me as though a lot of people have never encountered a curmudgeon before or are expecting a resort experience. Sometimes you have to put your time in with the old school before your accepted. Ever go to a new school? Basic training? Join a new hunt club? It's the same. Or sometimes they just happen to be assholes, you'll have to draw your own conclusions.

Spence



Yes, that's all well and good, except that the term "rapid fire" isn't defined by the rules or during your orientation there. Apparently it's whatever KC thinks it is at the moment. The purpose of the rule is to prevent people from firing out of control and pulling shots into the roof or over the berm - I have never done either. I also find it odd that "rapid fire" is banned, but full auto is allowed on Saturdays (though I've never seen one there).

I don't mind people who are direct at all - I just don't like having to wonder what sets them off, and I like to know exactly what a rule means. Moving on isn't an option, as already noted. There really aren't any other ranges in the area with the same facilities.


I'm with spence, but I'll say I'm not going to defend the actions of the rangeowner, as none of this has happened to me. I only go there to compete. Maybe try to explain them is all.

It doesn't matter if YOU know you are in control, you have to let THEM know you are in control. A casual "hey, watch this" likely won't do. The guys I know that have pulled it off have spent serious time over there, on the range and in the gunshop chatting with KC. The permissions have been slow coming, and they slowly gained KC's confidence.

We've all been to ranges that have holes everywhere (ceilings for the indoor ranges!) For every 10 responsible shooters, there is the one who is trying to do movie stuff (dumping mags from pistols in both hands as fast as can, NOT in control, etc). Owning a range on your own private land, you have to consider the neighbors and the effect of any round that leaves the range. Add to that, there is a real schism between accuracy shooters and action shooters. That was the real roots of the Zumbo comment.

So the "rapid fire" rule isn't defined? It's probably "defined" by what sounds fast to him that day.

Lastly, Full Auto. I've only ever heard what I think was a 1919 running pretty slow in controlled bursts. I'm guessing that a hip fired uzi would not fly. I'm guessing that an M16 would get a visit from KC because it runs pretty fast. I'd guess you'd have to show control to shoot any full auto there.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 3:12:00 AM EST
Not to change the subject, but does anyone know any details about KC Jr.? I was just there on the 10th talking to him and looking at the obituary it appears he passed on the 12th.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 11:12:01 AM EST
Shot Blackcreek's match for years . I have no idea who this "KC" person is who everyone is going on about.

Just come to a regular shoot on the weekends & you won't have anyone telling you to shoot slower. And no one needs practice to participate in a shoot. Just show up & be safe.

kdmoore - good round up.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 3:09:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By CBR900:
Shot Blackcreek's match for years . I have no idea who this "KC" person is who everyone is going on about.

Just come to a regular shoot on the weekends & you won't have anyone telling you to shoot slower. And no one needs practice to participate in a shoot. Just show up & be safe.

kdmoore - good round up.


"KC" is Mr. Young the owner of the range. Older (60's?) gentleman that normally wears glasses and a cowboy style hat.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 3:15:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 3:16:05 PM EST by dbrowne1]
K.C., Jr. is the older man who owns the property and range. K.C., III is his son who helped him run the range and who passed away.

All gripes aside, I'm sorry to hear that K.C., III passed away. He was always very kind and diplomatic in dealing with shooters (including me), and had a tough life the last few years. He also took my (then) girlfriend under his wing when she came to the range with me and was upset due to the level of noise, something she didn't expect.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 3:27:11 PM EST
Thanks for the replies. Some good info here. I'll take a look at Blackcreek (soon it seems is better than later). I also heard that there is an "Appleseed" match in Chesterfield March 31 and April 1st.

I saw this at the www.RWVA.org site (you know the guys who teach to you be a rifleman and not a cook in Shotgun news...)
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