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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:48:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 5:51:38 AM EST by Princeton]
As if things weren't already bad enough with gun violence, this past weekend will certainly fan the flames of gun legislation in the state.

Here's the Philadelphia Daily News story (I added some bold and color for easy reference to the important parts):


A cry for help

Since Friday, at least 13 people have been slain. This year, 82 percent of the homicides have been gun-related. "We need legislation," says the city's police commissioner.
By BARBARA LAKER & REGINA MEDINA
lakerb@phillynews.com

EVEN Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham, who often sees the dead up close inside the morgue, was shocked by the city's weekend of murder.

Seventy-two hours.

Eleven bodies.

"We have to be shocked and horrified by this level of violence," Abraham said in an interview yesterday.

And hours after Abraham's lament, two other people were slain in the city - a man found shot in a car in Juniata Park and a man shot in West Kensington.

"I've been an advocate of gun control and gun restrictions for a long time," she said. "But all the safeguards unfortunately are not getting out of committee of the state Legislature."

The city's hands are tied since gun laws have to be passed by the Legislature. City Council is expected to take the first step Thursday to change that when Councilman Darrell L. Clarke introduces an ordinance that would ask residents in a ballot referendum whether they want the city to vote on its own gun laws.

"Right now, in Pennsylvania, if you want a thousand weapons, you can get them, no problem," Clarke said yesterday. "And that's outrageous.

"If you have a car, you have to get it registered every year, but if you get a permit to carry a weapon, the city doesn't have to know how many you have or what you have."


In a late-afternoon press conference addressing the spike in violence over the last week, Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson said 82 percent of the homicides this year are gun-related. "We need legislation," he said. "We need their help."

At the same press conference, Abraham said citizens need to help, too.

"We need the input of the clergy. We need good neighbors to come forward. We need parents who know that their kids are dealing drugs and have guns in their houses to turn in those guns and those drugs and those children," the D.A. said.

Just last week, state Rep. John Myers, D-Philadelphia, introduced measures to curb gun violence. One bill would prohibit people in the state from buying more than one gun during a 30-day period. A similar bill, supported by Abraham and other law-enforcement officials, was introduced in Harrisburg in 2002 but was not passed.

Myers introduced another bill last week that would require police agencies to trace recovered firearms and report them to the state police. If someone under 21 has a weapon and does not have a permit, police would be required to investigate how he or she got it.

A third proposal would allow Philadelphia to adopt an ordinance, subject to voter referendum, prohibiting ownership, possession or transfer of an assault weapon.

"I know that a number of my colleagues, especially from rural and some suburban areas, will wail that these bills infringe on their interpretation of the right to bear arms," Myers said in a written statement.

"But I challenge them to come and spend a few nights in some neighborhoods of the city and hear the gunfire that goes on at night like our residents do - to know that those shots are being fired at people, not deer or rabbits, and to realize that they, themselves, may be in the line of fire."

City leaders said young people especially have become desensitized to bloodshed.

"Unfortunately, the level of violence isn't even shocking anymore," Clarke said. "That's what's so terrible. We've become immune to violence."

Between 12:01 a.m. Friday and 11:59 p.m. Sunday, 11 people were killed in the city. They included a 9-year-old boy who was shot in North Philadelphia while sitting in a van with his sister, and two men who were shot to death in an all-night pool hall.

Some killings over the bloody weekend, however, didn't involve guns. A 10-year-old boy and his 6-year-old sister were stabbed to death by their mother, who then plunged a knife into her abdomen, killing herself.

The latest rash of killings brought the number of homicides in this city to 71, compared to 65 at this time last year.

In the last week, there have been 42 shootings and 18 homicides.

City and state leaders say that gun violence is a national epidemic, not a Philadelphia sickness.

"It's a national problem. With the number of people dead, you'd think this was Iraq," state Rep. Dwight Evans, D-Philadelphia, said yesterday. "It disturbs me that we're not collectively trying to figure out on a national level how to get a handle on this."

What irks city officials is the public's lack of cooperation in solving the city's violent crime.

"When we have these homicides and these shootings, we need people to come forth and to help us and to assist us," Johnson said during the press conference.

"This is not unique to Philadelphia," Abraham said. "Nor is it new. It's the same familiar refrain. Someone uses a gun to settle an old score or old dispute."

Abraham is not optimistic that the Legislature will pass stringent gun laws because the organized gun lobby is extremely strong and there's a "national love affair" with guns.

People kill over a seat at a bar, a look, a parking space, she said.

"Guns are part of the puzzle," Evans said. "But they don't solve the puzzle."
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:05:05 AM EST
I thought Philly had a no CCW policy along time ago. They state ruled that state laws and CCW permits are good anywhere in the state. So, how could they come up with guns laws for just philly?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:17:24 AM EST
philly sucks
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:38:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By pyro6988:
I thought Philly had a no CCW policy along time ago. They state ruled that state laws and CCW permits are good anywhere in the state. So, how could they come up with guns laws for just philly?



they can't, it still has to go through Harrisburg. What this article is saying is that Philadelphia Legislators are trying to find a loophole through that statute so they can basically make their own laws. This doesn't surprise me at all, and that city is going further downhill everyday. I live in a relatively "safe"(if anywhere in the city is) neighborhood, and I've even been hearing some gunshots lately. 6 more months and I'm outa here!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:56:22 AM EST
All they have to do is get an exemption from the state and it's easier than you think. I had a post a couple of weeks ago about a law they're pushing. If this keeps up they're not going to have any problems get a ban in Philly.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:02:01 AM EST
Why is it so hard for them to grasp that they can make all the laws that they want and only those of us who obey the law will suffer. The criminals and gangstas will always find a way to get an illegal weapon. Philly, and their corrupt mayor and that lame excuse they have for a police commissioner should get off their fat asses and get after the criminals ! oh guess they can't do that cause then the would need a new mayor. I was born and raised in Philly , my parents still live there, My son still lives there for the time being but but there are sections of that town that should be declared a free fire zone
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:07:26 AM EST
I'm wondering if those same legislators are up on the UK's current events???????
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:10:54 AM EST
The only way to stop it is illegal. Search every house and car in the city.

The weapons that are turning up at crime scenes are expensive than a couple of years ago. More HK's, SIG's, Desert Eagle's and FN's are turning up.

They had a good commissioner but they let him leave.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:15:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By CT_AR:

Originally Posted By pyro6988:
I thought Philly had a no CCW policy along time ago. They state ruled that state laws and CCW permits are good anywhere in the state. So, how could they come up with guns laws for just philly?



they can't, it still has to go through Harrisburg. What this article is saying is that Philadelphia Legislators are trying to find a loophole through that statute so they can basically make their own laws. This doesn't surprise me at all, and that city is going further downhill everyday. I live in a relatively "safe"(if anywhere in the city is) neighborhood, and I've even been hearing some gunshots lately. 6 more months and I'm outa here!



Where are you moving Jay ?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:36:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By CT_AR:

Originally Posted By pyro6988:
I thought Philly had a no CCW policy along time ago. They state ruled that state laws and CCW permits are good anywhere in the state. So, how could they come up with guns laws for just philly?



they can't, it still has to go through Harrisburg. What this article is saying is that Philadelphia Legislators are trying to find a loophole through that statute so they can basically make their own laws. This doesn't surprise me at all, and that city is going further downhill everyday. I live in a relatively "safe"(if anywhere in the city is) neighborhood, and I've even been hearing some gunshots lately. 6 more months and I'm outa here!



Thanks for the clarification.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:46:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:

Originally Posted By CT_AR:

Originally Posted By pyro6988:
I thought Philly had a no CCW policy along time ago. They state ruled that state laws and CCW permits are good anywhere in the state. So, how could they come up with guns laws for just philly?



they can't, it still has to go through Harrisburg. What this article is saying is that Philadelphia Legislators are trying to find a loophole through that statute so they can basically make their own laws. This doesn't surprise me at all, and that city is going further downhill everyday. I live in a relatively "safe"(if anywhere in the city is) neighborhood, and I've even been hearing some gunshots lately. 6 more months and I'm outa here!



Where are you moving Jay ?


don't really know that yet, probably Montgomery Co., somewhere a little closer to work
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:35:36 PM EST
This crap rears it ugly head again! I have called my state rep Perzel. According to them any change in the legislation is dead on arrival in Harrisburg. There is no way that he a rep from Philly will allow this garbage(and this is the words from his office) to go anywhere. I feel pretty confident that he has enough pull and power to tank this crap!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:37:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 1:33:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By ridinshotgun:
This crap rears it ugly head again! I have called my state rep Perzel. According to them any change in the legislation is dead on arrival in Harrisburg. There is no way that he a rep from Philly will allow this garbage(and this is the words from his office) to go anywhere. I feel pretty confident that he has enough pull and power to tank this crap!


He doesn't
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 1:59:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:

Originally Posted By ridinshotgun:
This crap rears it ugly head again! I have called my state rep Perzel. According to them any change in the legislation is dead on arrival in Harrisburg. There is no way that he a rep from Philly will allow this garbage(and this is the words from his office) to go anywhere. I feel pretty confident that he has enough pull and power to tank this crap!


He doesn't



How? Can they invoke the Home Rule Charter? What about the 1995 Uniform Firearms Act of PA and its preemption clause?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:45:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 2:48:37 PM EST by choad33]
But But I thought the new GUN COURT they have would put a stop to all this.



Not the rest of the states problem if philly goes ape-shit

that old eatin their young quote.



Nuke it from orbit...it's the only way to be sure.

Prepare to gas the planet 626 must be stopped

or we could just anex Philly to Jersey
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:57:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By lu380:

Originally Posted By mikepenn33:

Originally Posted By ridinshotgun:
This crap rears it ugly head again! I have called my state rep Perzel. According to them any change in the legislation is dead on arrival in Harrisburg. There is no way that he a rep from Philly will allow this garbage(and this is the words from his office) to go anywhere. I feel pretty confident that he has enough pull and power to tank this crap!


He doesn't



How? Can they invoke the Home Rule Charter? What about the 1995 Uniform Firearms Act of PA and its preemption clause?



All they have to do is get an exemption.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:58:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 3:10:58 PM EST by mikepenn33]

Originally Posted By choad33:
But But I thought the new GUN COURT they have would put a stop to all this.



Not the rest of the states problem if philly goes ape-shit

that old eatin their young quote.



Nuke it from orbit...it's the only way to be sure.

Prepare to gas the planet 626 must be stopped

or we could just anex Philly to Jersey



That's the funny thing. The gun court can't handle the load. It's that bad.

There have been several "straw purchase"cases that were moved to federal court. One guy bought 24 guns in 4 monthes and he could only account for 2. The rest he sold on the street. That's the biggest problem the guns are being replaced faster than the cops can take them off the street.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:11:03 PM EST
The people in Philly need to clean up their own neighborhoods, they need to start turning these gangsters in instead of saying" I didn't see anything". Until this happens there it doesn't matter what law they pass.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:56:39 PM EST
declare marshall law and call in the militia to sort things out.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:56:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By arjohnson:
The people in Philly need to clean up their own neighborhoods, they need to start turning these gangsters in instead of saying" I didn't see anything". Until this happens there it doesn't matter what law they pass.



Bingo. If there was a crack house down the street from me* you can be sure i'd say something about it to the cops. Take care of your own neighborhoods.

*i'm sure there are several, i just don't know of any
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:04:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By BQQBs:
declare marshall law and call in the militia to sort things out.



Yea and nornal citizens have to suffer?
How about if the mayor just stepped down and let someone
(anyone over the age of 12) do the job
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:05:12 PM EST
Were up to 21now maybe 22
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:02:23 PM EST
My favorite part is that 3 of the deaths in this anti-gun article were from some mother using a butcher knief to kill herself and her two kids. But why does that matter right? The important part is the body count to rile up the anti-gun factions in Philly. All homicides in the city are because of guns, right? hinking.gif


I can't understand how the 'majority' of people in the city can think guns are a bigger problem then the drug dealer huggin cop/firemen firing mayor.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:53:18 AM EST
Um.

Gangs are killing each other, and innocents are caught in the crossfire.

Sales of illegal drugs provide the motivation to commit violent acts and provide the funds to acquire weapons.

The solution seems clear to me: decriminalize drug sales and tax them like alcohol. Let the people who want to waste their lives do so without the burden the current "War" places on the rest of society.

Gee, I wonder how much money Mr. Shiznit on the corner can make selling his rocks - of unknown quality, I might add - when someone can walk into a state store and buy a superior product, legally, cheaply, and quickly.

He might have to go get a job at Sheetz or Wal-Mart instead.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 5:08:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By joker0370:
My favorite part is that 3 of the deaths in this anti-gun article were from some mother using a butcher knief to kill herself and her two kids. But why does that matter right? The important part is the body count to rile up the anti-gun factions in Philly. All homicides in the city are because of guns, right?


I can't understand how the 'majority' of people in the city can think guns are a bigger problem then the drug dealer huggin cop/firemen firing mayor.



They did say 82% of the murders were by firearms. From the study they did last year almost half of the murders were because of "anger".
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 5:44:35 AM EST
I think if we ban Democrats and deport all of them to the PRNJ 99% of all of Philly`s problems will disappear overnight.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:47:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By macros73:
Um.

Gangs are killing each other, and innocents are caught in the crossfire.

Sales of illegal drugs provide the motivation to commit violent acts and provide the funds to acquire weapons.

The solution seems clear to me: decriminalize drug sales and tax them like alcohol. Let the people who want to waste their lives do so without the burden the current "War" places on the rest of society.

Gee, I wonder how much money Mr. Shiznit on the corner can make selling his rocks - of unknown quality, I might add - when someone can walk into a state store and buy a superior product, legally, cheaply, and quickly.

He might have to go get a job at Sheetz or Wal-Mart instead.



I agree... while I personally don't like the idea of legal, available drugs they are already available even when illegal, and crime like this is the cost. I think legalization is the only sensible policy solution.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:06:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 10:08:59 AM EST by Princeton]
It seems that gun violence has reached such a momentum that there's just no way to stop it not even increased prosecutions.
Drugs are only half the problem. Anger is a big issue. People shooting at each other for stupid shit like bumping into each other. Or one person throws a snowball and gets gunfire in return. High school kids shooting at each other to settle rivalries that used to be settled with fists (not that that was any better.)
Shootings in and around bars in the city have always been out of control also. Just proving that alcohol and firearms do not mix. someone talks to the wrong guys girlfriend or someone else gets out of control in the bar and is thrown out by the bouncers and they return with a gun and start shooting. The violence is the number one reason I stopped going to bars.



Most of the people I know, know me as a gun shooter & collector. Its funny how often people will, in a joking manner, suggest that any time something happens around me that I'll just settle it with a gun. For example, if one guy at work gives me even the slightest amount of grief another guy will jokingly say, "you don't want to mess with him he owns lots of guns!"

I just don't get that attitude? It would never occur to me to use a gun to settle anything. That's not what guns are for and that's where the problem with firearms lies. The attitude that if you have a gun you can use it at will to "settle the score"
Instead of looking at a gun as a totally last resort (having your back to the wall and in fear of your life) its used as a first strike tool.

It saddens me to even hear the news with such high rates of violence these days. But, since I'm a gun owner it seems that everytime there is a senseless shooting somewhere people can't wait to tell me about it, like I get some kind of thrill from hearing about shootings?



Thankfully, with things in such dispair throughout the city I have been spared the violence. Up to this point no one I know has been touched but I know its only a matter of time.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:08:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Princeton:
It seems that gun violence has reached such a momentum that there's just no way to stop it not even increased prosecutions.
Drugs are only half the problem. Anger is a big issue. People shooting at each other for stupid shit like bumping into each other. Or one person throws a snowball and gets gunfire in return. High school kids shooting at each other to settle rivalries that used to be settled with fists (not that that was any better.)
Shootings in and around bars in the city have always been out of control also. Just proving that alcohol and firearms do not mix. someone talks to the wrong guys girlfriend or someone else gets out of control in the bar and is thrown out by the bouncers and they return with a gun and start shooting. The violence is the number one reason I stopped going to bars.



Most of the people I know, know me as a gun shooter & collector. Its funny how often people will, in a joking manner, suggest that any time something happens around me that I'll just settle it with a gun. For example, if one guy at work gives me even the slightest amount of grief another guy will jokingly say, "you don't want to mess with him he owns lots of guns!"

I just don't get that attitude? It would never occur to me to use a gun to settle anything. That's not what guns are for and that's where the problem with firearms lies. The attitude that if you have a gun you can use it at will to "settle the score"
Instead of looking at a gun as a totally last resort (having your back to the wall and in fear of your life) its used as a first strike tool.

It saddens me to even hear the news with such high rates of violence these days. But, since I'm a gun owner it seems that everytime there a senseless shooting somewhere people can't wait to tell me about it, like I get some kind of thrill from hearing about shootings?



Thankfully, with things in such dispair throughout the city I have been spared the violence. Up to this point no one I know has been touched but I know its only a matter of time.


Agree 100%
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:39:03 AM EST
I agree as well, I've been more than alert lately when walking around the city. You just NEVER know when something can or will happen.....just have to pay attention to your surroundings and hope nothing happens close enough to you, or don't put yourself in a situation where something could go wrong. once again, I can't wait to move......
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:40:59 AM EST
You mean like people with an AK47 shooting out of your work.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:52:10 AM EST
yeah, something like that, ya know I actually found a fired 7.62x39 bullet in my parking lot a couple weeks ago....it was only a little deformed on the tip, and the rifling marks were very clear on it, it was a little scary to find I might add. I still have it and I'll show you it Mike if you ever come to the range again....
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