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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/15/2005 9:33:43 AM EDT
Question -
If you can legally do a FTF in Virginia, but the other guy is on the other side of the state, can you legally send him a long gun directly through the mail?
This is assuming both parties are legal VA residents, and gun being mailed form in VA to in VA.

thanks!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 9:47:42 AM EDT
other guy is me, so no felons, <18, or non VA folk here!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:19:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:28:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
No! Not for a in state sale anyway.

The rifle could be shipped to an FFL, and then back to the original owner. It can't be shipped from one owner to a new owner directly.


You could ship it to an FFL, and Chapper can pick it up that way.


Just pick a middle point and meet there.



Not the way I understand the law. Intrastate shipments are OK AFAIK...
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:48:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:09:56 PM EDT
gunnut, sorry bro, you're wrong.

Postal regulations state that any long gun sale that doesn't violate the GCA of 68 can go through the mail. (old shooting buddy in NY was postmaster of my PO - I'm 1000% on this). This sale doens't come near GCA applicability.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:02:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 5:12:47 PM EDT by BlackFox]
Gunnut - I'm with chapperjoe on this one. Here's the research I've done:

Here's what I found on the BATF's website:
www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17


(B17) What recordkeeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. As noted in FAQs B1 and B2, which are posted on this Web site in the "Firearms" section, a private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

For information about any State or local regulations that may govern this type of transaction, it is advisable to contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a gun from a private person who resides in another State, the gun will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See FAQ B3 (Firearms).



I basically read this to say that the GCA and 18 USC 921 have only one provision for in-State sales - that the buyer is not known to the seller to be prohibited from owning a firearm.

I found the following at US Postal Service's site:
www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.pdf (section 432)

Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 and 18 U.S.C. 921.


Again, no restrictions for USPS shipping as long as it complies with GCA and 18 USC 921

Here's what I got from UPS's website:
www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html

Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, <snip> and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws.

* You must ship your packages that contain handguns with UPS Next Day Air Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services




While I can't find anything that says "it is legal to ship between private individuals in the same State," that's not usually how the law seems to work (specific permissions). I cannot find anything that prohibits it, though. I'm certainly interested in whatever code you may have!

Black Fox
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:14:26 PM EDT
I won't do UPS person to person within a state. They are pretty sure to ask me where its going each time, and the lady who works the depot by me si REALLY nice black woman who's ALWAYS reading the bible when I come andI don't want to have to explan teh law to her and give her problems.... interstate I go with ups, within a state, usps. not a problem..
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:28:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:27:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
It could be that I'm wrong on this one.

I checked the different code sections and it doesn't mention anything about in state shipping, just out of state shipping. I'm not sure where I came up with the idea that you can't ship person to person in the same state.

Well, it would seam that you can ship the rifle within the same state person to person.



It's kind of amazing how cautious and law abiding gun owners are..... And they want to further legilate us .
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:51:42 AM EDT

Man, Virginia keeps getting better n better!
There was no such thing as FTF in CA (except for long guns over 50 years old)
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:29:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
gunnut, sorry bro, you're wrong.

Postal regulations state that any long gun sale that doesn't violate the GCA of 68 can go through the mail. (old shooting buddy in NY was postmaster of my PO - I'm 1000% on this).



I believe that chapperjoe is correct on this one, as well.

BlackFox was on the right track with his answer, but there are more applicable answers under questions B8 and B9 of the FAQ. I was a little incredulous at authoritative, straight forward answers -- with no equivocation -- to this question, considering the authorship of FAQ, but live and learn.

Thanks for posting the FAQ link, BlackFox, which I've now bookmarked.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:07:32 AM EDT
yeah besides for the comedic effect of having a postal employee who was a 'gun guy', he really did help me out on the legal side. He had never thought about it either till I asked him one day, and he spent a nice a mount of time checking the postal code and double checking for me....

He happens to be the only non-Jewish member of our shooting club back up in NY - not that there are any rules about that, just that it's hard to find real gun people in the five towns. The only folks like me and you there are religious Jews!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 2:48:25 PM EDT
There's a simple way to find out--just call the VA state police or the regional ATF office. While I certainly wish a thousand painful deaths upon the ATF just like the next guy does, I'd be lying if I said that they weren't helpful when you ask a question. One time I had a question, I called the regional office, explained my question, and gave them my email address to send a response. Within an hour I had a lengthy explanation of the question, the answer, and citations of the pertinent laws in my inbox. Give them a try--better safe than sorry.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:11:30 PM EDT
No real reason to call they've already answered the question in the link larrycwdc provided.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state.The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:07:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BH1:
No real reason to call they've already answered the question in the link larrycwdc provided.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state.The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]




But you don't HAVE to send it registered.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:13:21 AM EDT
awesome...so you can even send handguns through a carrier...
VA rocks!
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:58:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CA2VAyay:
awesome...so you can even send handguns through a carrier...
VA rocks!

'


'BUT no carrier will take it within state no FFL.
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