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Posted: 11/23/2014 10:31:44 PM EDT
[#1]
I am almost certain it would be a legal configuration per BATFE, but I'm not sure it would still be considered a pistol per MDC. However, the possession of the other two remaining parts might equal constructive possession of an SBR.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 10:48:00 PM EDT
[#2]
MDC just goes with legal classifications, so no problem there. I mainly worry about my Bushmaster upper being put on a pistol and then back on the rifle.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 11:06:26 PM EDT
[#3]
You just need both, pistol and sbr.
On pistol lower, no issue with length of barreled upper. Issue is with barrel length of upper that is on rifle lower. Constructive intent and all that...... |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 11:30:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Nothing illegal in what you describe. Putting your 20" upper on the pistol does not some how change any classification of your 20" upper. As such you would be perfectly fine reinstalling the 20" upper on your rifle lower.
There is also no legal entanglement in having your short upper and rifle lower apart since you have a legal use for both. Eta: Putting the 20" upper on the pistol lower I believe would change the classification from pistol to firearm. Perfectly legal and still not a rifle but technically not a pistol. However, in that configuration you could add a vfg if you wanted since the oal would be greater than 26". |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:16:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Sounds good; thanks, everyone.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 4:08:53 AM EDT
[#6]
If it changes the classification from pistol to firearm because of the over all length is it still kosher for alternative season?
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:01:10 AM EDT
[#7]
The deer hunting pamphlet doesn't go in depth with gun descriptions, so I think I'll ask an agent that question.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:40:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The deer hunting pamphlet doesn't go in depth with gun descriptions, so I think I'll ask an agent that question. If you do, please post the reply. I think you're still GTG, but I would appreciate a confirmation. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:49:03 AM EDT
[#9]
A hunting site I'm on has an Ask MDC forum, and someone asked about Contenders. I'm still trying to find the ATF info on pistol/firearm regarding AR15 barrel length, so I can ask that specific question.
http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188615 "You are fine with the 15 inch contender as long as it doesn't have a vertical fore grip or stock. The definition of a handgun is a federal one, not one from MDC. You will have to look to ATF to get the handgun definition." Edit - I can't find the ATF info, to show the agent.  |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 2:10:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eta: Putting the 20" upper on the pistol lower I believe would change the classification from pistol to firearm. Perfectly legal and still not a rifle but technically not a pistol. Can you show what that's based on? I can't find anything stating that. I've looked in the USC under Definitions; "26 U.S.C. United States Code, 2010 Edition Title 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE Subtitle E - Alcohol, Tobacco, and Certain Other Excise Taxes CHAPTER 53 - MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS Subchapter B - General Provisions and Exemptions PART I - GENERAL PROVISIONS Sec. 5845 - Definitions From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov §5845. DefinitionsFor the purpose of this chapter— (a) FirearmThe term "firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term "firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon." I also found an ATF letter that looks to me as though overall length of concealable firearms isn't even defined; (Question #4) This response to Franklin Armory seems to say that a vertical forward pistol grip is what would change the classification, rather than the overall length. That's all I've found so far... |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 2:35:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Putting a vertical forward grip onto an AR pistol will make it an Any Other Weapon and you will need a tax stamp. I believe the AOW tax stamp is $5 vs $200 for an SBR. As far as I know there is no regulation against putting a longer barrel, such as a 20" upper receiver, on an AR-15 pistol. If there's some law against this I would be interested in seeing it.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 2:39:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Putting a vertical forward grip onto an AR pistol will make it an Any Other Weapon and you will need a tax stamp. I believe the AOW tax stamp is $5 vs $200 for an SBR. As far as I know there is no regulation against putting a longer barrel, such as a 20" upper receiver, on an AR-15 pistol. If there's some law against this I would be interested in seeing it. That's just it... A oak of 26" or greater means it is no longer considered a pistol. A vfg would be gtg. This stuff is all over the pistol forum. I'll see if I can find a link. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 3:11:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's just it... A oak of 26" or greater means it is no longer considered a pistol. A vfg would be gtg. This stuff is all over the pistol forum. I'll see if I can find a link. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Putting a vertical forward grip onto an AR pistol will make it an Any Other Weapon and you will need a tax stamp. I believe the AOW tax stamp is $5 vs $200 for an SBR. As far as I know there is no regulation against putting a longer barrel, such as a 20" upper receiver, on an AR-15 pistol. If there's some law against this I would be interested in seeing it. That's just it... A oak of 26" or greater means it is no longer considered a pistol. A vfg would be gtg. This stuff is all over the pistol forum. I'll see if I can find a link. I thought the only thing making an AR a pistol was the lack of a stock? That's how the ATF agent explained it to me, and how it's explained on the Sig Sauer pistol brace. https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/ATF-Compliant-Letter.pdf Basically, rifles are designed to be shoulder fired, while pistols are designed to be held away from the body in the hands. When you put something on the buffer tube to convert it from hand held to shoulder braced, it's then a rifle, period. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 4:56:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's just it... A oak of 26" or greater means it is no longer considered a pistol. A vfg would be gtg. This stuff is all over the pistol forum. I'll see if I can find a link. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Putting a vertical forward grip onto an AR pistol will make it an Any Other Weapon and you will need a tax stamp. I believe the AOW tax stamp is $5 vs $200 for an SBR. As far as I know there is no regulation against putting a longer barrel, such as a 20" upper receiver, on an AR-15 pistol. If there's some law against this I would be interested in seeing it. That's just it... A oak of 26" or greater means it is no longer considered a pistol. A vfg would be gtg. This stuff is all over the pistol forum. I'll see if I can find a link. I would like to see that. If the AR pistol is then equipped with a 20" upper and becomes over 26" OAL and still retains the bare pistol tube without a stock I would be wary of putting a vertical grip on it and running it in public view, but if there's an ATF ruling on it that would be great. It's really stupid we even have to worry about all of this minutia to begin with, as if a grip is going to cause mass genocide. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:38:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Just to be clear, I never asked about a forward grip and don't even have one. All I'm talking about is taking the upper off the rifle (and putting that lower back in the safe), then replacing the pistol upper with the rifle upper.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:58:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just to be clear, I never asked about a forward grip and don't even have one. All I'm talking about is taking the upper off the rifle (and putting that lower back in the safe), then replacing the pistol upper with the rifle upper. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/qwertyup/media/Guns/2012-8-22BothAR15s001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/qwertyup/Guns/2012-8-22BothAR15s001.jpg</a> Roger that, I just added that tidbit as additional info. Here is a PDF of the ATF letter concerning the vfg issue. http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 7:45:15 PM EDT
[#17]
clear as mud. If you are not 100 percent sure, I wouldn't do it. that's just me.
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Posted: 11/26/2014 10:13:56 PM EDT
[#18]
I still haven't found anything that says a pistol isn't a pistol with a certain length barrel.
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