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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/6/2006 9:43:36 AM EDT
My first boss from over 20 years ago used to give himself a chuckle by using this designation for Virginia's ABC stores. Something about "where to go to learn the alphabet". He was an old coot then and probably no longer even around now.....too bad.

Anyway, it's State government owned and operated, so is it "governement property" in that concealed carry is prohibited?

I don't know about you, but a liquor store falls squarely into the class of places where I most want to be able to defend myself.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:28:25 AM EDT
I carry there, I do not believe it is prohibited. It's not like its a bar where you are drinking, just purchasing.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:17:28 PM EDT
Although I can't find the code on this, I'm almost positive that it is illegal to carry in an ABC store. I only remember this because it seemed so absurd to me at the time. You can carry into the state capitol, but not into a liquor store. Anyway, I'm trying to find the code now. Hopefully, somebody with more experience with this can chime in.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:19:38 PM EDT
I do not know of a prohibition on carrying on state property with the exception of the State Capitol, where only permit holders can carry if I remember correctly.

I think the state can prohibit carry by employees, but not by citizens.

This is the crux of the issue between citizens and state colleges, is it not? Pre-emption should take precedence over any college administrative policy as the grounds of the college are state property.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:25:06 PM EDT
Here's the list of prohibited places from www.packing.org:



# No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in §4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia, nothing herein shall prohibit any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit. NOTE: only concealed handguns are prohibited - openly carried handguns are allowed
# Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited. Violation is a trespass charge and not a firearms violation
# Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held unless you have "good and sufficient reason." There is no known definition of what a good and sufficient reason would be. Violation is a minor crime, punishible by a fine of up to $100.
# Courthouse. Violation is a high-level misdemeanor
# School property/school functions unless gun is unloaded, in an enclosed container (but NOT in the glove box or console) and in the vehicle. A car's trunk is considered an enclosed container. However, a concealed handgun permit holder can have a loaded, concealed handgun in the vehicle while in the school parking lot, traffic circle, etc. The concealed handgun and the permit holder must stay in the vehicle. Firearms are not banned from property open to the public where a school function is being held unless that property is being used exclusively for the school function. Violation of this statute is a felony
# Virginia Commonwealth University (8VAC90-10-50). Violation is a trespass charge
# Non-secure areas of airport terminals are off limits unless you are a passenger and you have your gun unloaded, in a locked container in your checked luggage, and declare the gun at the check-in counter. Violation is a high-level misdemeanor.



Cliffy, were you thinking of ABC-licensed establishments, which only pertains to those with on-premise consumption (the Restaurant Ban)?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:49:25 PM EDT
I am almost 100% sure you can carry in an ABC. A while back somebody tried to rob an ABC store. A customer who had a concealed weapon drew on and killed the robber. The police did not charge him. I specifically remember the newspaper (Virginia Pilot, a liberal bastion) stating that because alcohol was not served, it was not considered an 'ABC licensed' facility. Otherwise, you would not be able to carry into grocery stores, 7-Eleven, Sam's Club, etc because they sell beer and wine.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:57:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Squib:

Cliffy, were you thinking of ABC-licensed establishments, which only pertains to those with on-premise consumption (the Restaurant Ban)?



No, that's not what I was thinking about. Maybe this is one of those things that went away with pre-emption. I remember a very specific discussion about this and I think it was here about a year or two ago.

I've been wrong once or twice before in my life. This might just be one of them, because that VA code is pretty specific and easy to understand.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:16:57 PM EDT
ive open carried in an ABC once and was not hassled although the employees probably dont know either
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:18:30 PM EDT
When concealed carry ws reformed in 1995 there was some debate as to ABC off premise licenses were no-carry areas - we (VCDL) managed to get an atty general opnion to the effect it was legal (I used to carry a copy of teh letter in in my fannypack holster) - since then law has been reworded and it is less subject to mis-interpretation..
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:58:46 AM EDT
Thanks for the responses guys.

I was thinking more in terms of it being a form of government property, like an agency office, rather than the liquor connection a la restaurant ban.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:07:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackScot:
Thanks for the responses guys.

I was thinking more in terms of it being a form of government property, like an agency office, rather than the liquor connection a la restaurant ban.



State government property isn't off limits. Only courts and schools.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:31:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:

Originally Posted By BlackScot:
Thanks for the responses guys.

I was thinking more in terms of it being a form of government property, like an agency office, rather than the liquor connection a la restaurant ban.



State government property isn't off limits. Only courts and schools.


agree. and schools doesn't incl colleges and universities except for...vcu?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:49:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

agree. and schools doesn't incl colleges and universities except for...vcu?


Correct,unless they're private in which case you treat them as any other private entity. They tell you to leave-you must leave.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:52:40 PM EDT
I carry both open and concealed in the local ABC store and the employees are okay with it. Once when reaching for my wallet my gun became exposed and a customer noticed it. After he finished yelling he's got a gun the clerk told him to chill out he didn't have to worry about being robbed with me in the store.
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