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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/31/2009 4:48:06 AM EST
I'm planning on going to the MWCA gun show today at the fair grounds. I checked their site about rules pertaining to CCW but couldn't find anything specific except this statement:

From the MWCA web site:
No loaded firearms except for authorized security personnel!


Can someone tell me, if you have a valid CCW permit is it legal to carry at a gun show in MN, specifically the MWCA show?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:25:48 AM EST
most all gun shows usually have a sign. most all of those signs don't fit the legal requirements.
make sure you look for a sign, if it is one that fits the requirements laid out by the law then carry at your own risk, if there is anything that doesn't fit and you get caught you have some legal ground to just leave and that be the end of the situation.

I always carry at shows, just because there are a bunch of guns there doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to protect myself. lately the ones I have been to have had an influx of shady looking people...

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 10:03:22 AM EST
It was always my understanding that, if discovered, as long as you agree to leave the premises immediately there are no repercussions that can be taken.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 1:23:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By mnandy:
It was always my understanding that, if discovered, as long as you agree to leave the premises immediately there are no repercussions that can be taken.

yes, but if there is a sign that conforms to the law you could be charged, because the sign was them initially telling you to not come in. I have yet to see a sign anywhere in MN that actually does conform to the law.

my favorite one is the sign at the MOA, etched in frosted glass basically on the ground.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 2:59:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By tesla120:
yes, but if there is a sign that conforms to the law you could be charged, because the sign was them initially telling you to not come in. I have yet to see a sign anywhere in MN that actually does conform to the law.

my favorite one is the sign at the MOA, etched in frosted glass basically on the ground.


Its my understanding that legal sign + verbally being told to leave + refusal to leave = trespass with a firearm. Other states say otherwise. Keep in mind, free legal advise is worth every penny you paid for it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:18:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 5:19:34 PM EST by phorvick]
Originally Posted By tesla120:

Originally Posted By mnandy:
It was always my understanding that, if discovered, as long as you agree to leave the premises immediately there are no repercussions that can be taken.

yes, but if there is a sign that conforms to the law you could be charged, because the sign was them initially telling you to not come in. I have yet to see a sign anywhere in MN that actually does conform to the law.

my favorite one is the sign at the MOA, etched in frosted glass basically on the ground.


Wrong. That may be your understanding, but it is not correct. Other posters have it correct.

There are just two possibilities:

1. no sign, or non-compliant sign that you either do not see or see and ignore: you can be asked to leave and failure to leave upon request is the violation....not the carrying past the sign

2. compliant sign: it is a two step process: (a) correct sign and....the sign is NOT considered a request to leave; then (b) the request to leave and the refusal; now you have a potential problem and it is NOT the carrying past the sign...there is -0- penalty for that...it is the failure to leave.

Oh, and although not many in the big scheme of things, there are numerous properly posted locations in Minnesota.

Hmmm....ergo, sign or not, compliant or not begs the issue; it is only the failure to leave upon request that can lead to a problem. You do nothing legally wrong by ignoring the sign. Whether you perceive that to be an ethical flaw in your or another's character is a different issue.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:20:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 2:02:37 AM EST by phorvick]
oops...double tap
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:38:24 PM EST
I have been thinking for a while that maybe we need a tacked thread of companies or establishments that post that they ban guns. That way if you choose not to support these people it saves you a trip. If you don't care either way, you are at least armed with the knowledge of what to expect. Seriously, we get singled out, I think its time to fight back.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:08:35 AM EST
They normally have a sign that says something like "No loaded firearms allowed".... but I'm sure they mean... the ones you're walking around trying to sell/trade. They expect the concealed ones to be loaed!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:18:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:26:40 AM EST by tesla120]

Originally Posted By SBRguy:
They normally have a sign that says something like "No loaded firearms allowed".... but I'm sure they mean... the ones you're walking around trying to sell/trade. They expect the concealed ones to be loaed!

the shows I have been to specifically say "this includes CCW" or something to that effect.

Subd. 17.Posting; trespass.

(a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.

(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this paragraph have the meanings given.

(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:

(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or

(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.

(2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a height of four to six feet above the floor.

(3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting background that is at least 187 square inches in area.

(4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.

(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area.

(d) This subdivision does not apply to private residences. The lawful possessor of a private residence may prohibit firearms, and provide notice thereof, in any lawful manner.

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.


I hate legal speak, I can see how this could be taken both ways, but whats the point of the sign in the end if they still have to inform you to leave before its a violation? I was always told that the sign is the same as the store owner telling you to leave, but I suppose thats just the safest way to look at the situation. in the end, if its concealed no one should know unless you have to use it, and if you have to use it the $25 fine is the least of your worries.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:40:45 AM EST
I hate legal speak, I can see how this could be taken both ways, but whats the point of the sign in the end if they still have to inform you to leave before its a violation? I was always told that the sign is the same as the store owner telling you to leave, but I suppose thats just the safest way to look at the situation. in the end, if its concealed no one should know unless you have to use it, and if you have to use it the $25 fine is the least of your worries.

It is not a question of legal speak or interpretation by us the mass of the unwashed peons. It has gone to court. The ruling was that it is a two step process. Proper/compliant sign and personal request to leave. It is very clear why the law was written this way. The good people that wrote and drafted and lobbied for the law knew that we did not want a situation where an inadvertant carrying (you did not see the sign) would result in potential criminal prosecution. This is not an oversight, it is not bad drafting, it is not a situation where things were not thought out in advance. We owe a lot to the good folks...oh, like Professor Joe Olson, for their care, knowledge and foresight in the language of our law.

Thank you Prof. Olson!
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