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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:26:51 AM EDT
I live in WA and sell stripped lowers and have been bombarded with people asking me to ship these to CA now that they are legal. I know nothing about it and have so far refused to do it. So what is the straight answer.
Is it legal? CA and Arnie Have created a loophole?

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:50:45 AM EDT
Their legality stems from the Harrott v King's County case, which stated that CA cannot enforce the "AR/AK series" clause of the CA AWB. Each receiver brand and model name/number must be named specifically. Otherwise, the receiver falls under the "features" ban of SB23.

The CA DOJ is moving to add a bunch of names to the list. Once they add it to the list, there should be a period of time where people who bought these receivers can register them as CA assault weapons, and then put all the goodies on it. If not, then we'll need to convert the lower into a fixed mag rifle.

THAT is why you're getting a bunch of requests. Hopefully you'll help out your fellow brothers in arms that are stuck behind enemy lines.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:50:52 AM EDT
All I know is that California weighs alot more than it did last week....
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:44:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 12:00:24 PM EDT by occaar]
.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:41:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mvp:
I live in WA and sell stripped lowers and have been bombarded with people asking me to ship these to CA now that they are legal. I know nothing about it and have so far refused to do it. So what is the straight answer.
Is it legal? CA and Arnie Have created a loophole?




If you look around on this forum or on Calnet, you will find letters from our CA DOJ stating the receivers are "currently" legal to purchase and possess. The rush for us Kalfornians is to get it quick enough before they become "banned"

So help a bro in arm out....

BTW, CA penal Code will have no impact on you as it is only enforceable in CA. If anyone is to threaten you with prosecution based on CA PC, you should really contact your States Attorny General office and tell them CA is stepping on their toe BIG TIME. Selling across State line is protected under the US Constitution. Only the Feds has authority to regulate.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:01:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 12:01:18 PM EDT by occaar]
.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:17:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 10:20:32 AM EDT by 6172crew]
www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

If your lower is not named by the DOJ then it is perfectly legal to send into Cali.

I will try to find the list for you, stand by.

Here it is:

ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/aw.htm
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:31:46 AM EDT
OH, BTW thanks for looking into helping us out.

If you call the CA DOJ they will tell you a long list of lies but if you tell them to send it on paper they wont.

Its been a race and its everything the DOJ can do to slow us down, at first it was the vendors, manufatures that didnt want anything to do with this and now we are seeing them flow in.

Id sure like to see other lowers here that dont have a deer on the side, so far DSA's, and Stags have crossed the DMZ.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:31:40 AM EDT
what about fulton armory's? my cousin has one in oregon but hasn't brought it into california where he lives. would it be legal for him to take a fulton armory lower into california from oregon and reigster it?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:52:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Their legality stems from the Harrott v King's County case, which stated that CA cannot enforce the "AR/AK series" clause of the CA AWB. Each receiver brand and model name/number must be named specifically. Otherwise, the receiver falls under the "features" ban of SB23.

The CA DOJ is moving to add a bunch of names to the list. Once they add it to the list, there should be a period of time where people who bought these receivers can register them as CA assault weapons, and then put all the goodies on it. If not, then we'll need to convert the lower into a fixed mag rifle.

THAT is why you're getting a bunch of requests. Hopefully you'll help out your fellow brothers in arms that are stuck behind enemy lines.


So what you're saying is that if an AR-type lower receiver is NOT listed BY NAME on the CA AW list, we can legally purchase one (or many many more)? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that this is what I am reading! How could I not have heard about this until now? I read this form almost daily!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:24:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:
[So what you're saying is that if an AR-type lower receiver is NOT listed BY NAME on the CA AW list, we can legally purchase one (or many many more)? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that this is what I am reading! How could I not have heard about this until now? I read this form almost daily!



Yes, hurry up, where have you been?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:40:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colossians323:

Yes, hurry up, where have you been?


Apparently I've had my head up my ass. But now it's almost impossible to find suppliers and FFLs willing to take the risk of conducting LEGAL business. Anybody have any leads they want to share with me? I'm in Southern CA.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 2:27:54 PM EDT
Let me know if you cant find an FFL in socal.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 3:13:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 6172crew:
Let me know if you cant find an FFL in socal.



what if we already have an FFL lined up but can't find a supplier. Can you help too?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 3:24:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pureformancecables:

Originally Posted By 6172crew:
Let me know if you cant find an FFL in socal.



what if we already have an FFL lined up but can't find a supplier. Can you help too?



PM sent.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:54:18 PM EDT
i have been looking for a lower myself and have been reading many of the forums and it seems like everyone is keeping this a secret im in norcal and need supplier and ffl if anyone has any info pls pm me, id love to be able to give the middle finger to those bastards who think we are the problem.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:00:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sava6e:
i have been looking for a lower myself and have been reading many of the forums and it seems like everyone is keeping this a secret im in norcal and need supplier and ffl if anyone has any info pls pm me, id love to be able to give the middle finger to those bastards who think we are the problem.



Says your from OR. why not buy one from that state?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:30:49 PM EDT
i will be moving back to california soon
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:25:30 AM EDT
If your in Oregon why not buy one and bring in when you move? Just make sure its non-named.

Stag
Fulton
DSA
etc.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:58:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:07:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
I would assume that home built 80% lowers would also be legal?



Just the fixed 10-rd mag version. No way they can list every home-brew out there.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:13:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Walmart_Special:

Originally Posted By mvp:
I live in WA and sell stripped lowers and have been bombarded with people asking me to ship these to CA now that they are legal. I know nothing about it and have so far refused to do it. So what is the straight answer.
Is it legal? CA and Arnie Have created a loophole?




If you look around on this forum or on Calnet, you will find letters from our CA DOJ stating the receivers are "currently" legal to purchase and possess. The rush for us Kalfornians is to get it quick enough before they become "banned"

So help a bro in arm out....

BTW, CA penal Code will have no impact on you as it is only enforceable in CA. If anyone is to threaten you with prosecution based on CA PC, you should really contact your States Attorny General office and tell them CA is stepping on their toe BIG TIME. Selling across State line is protected under the US Constitution. Only the Feds has authority to regulate.



That is not true. It is a violation of the terms of his FFL for a dealer to send a firearm or receiver into California in violation of California law. When a dealer accepts his FFL, he also agrees to abide by all state and local laws. See 27CFR §478.58
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:35:18 AM EDT
Does anyone have a name or list of ffl in Norcal that one can have a lower shipped to? Also a name of a vendor would be great also.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:52:49 AM EDT
pm to me as well... still looking for an ffl and source
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:31:35 PM EDT
Calguns.net appears to be down at the moment. Interesting timing... my paranoid delusions may not be so delusional.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:33:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vandal:
Calguns.net appears to be down at the moment. Interesting timing... my paranoid delusions may not be so delusional.




X1000
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:47:04 PM EDT
It went down last big storm if I remember correctly.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:48:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 6172crew:
It went down last big storm if I remember correctly.



Shitstorm?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:02:50 PM EDT
Up again... Blood pressure dropping...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:55:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

BTW, CA penal Code will have no impact on you as it is only enforceable in CA. If anyone is to threaten you with prosecution based on CA PC, you should really contact your States Attorny General office and tell them CA is stepping on their toe BIG TIME. Selling across State line is protected under the US Constitution. Only the Feds has authority to regulate.



That is not true. It is a violation of the terms of his FFL for a dealer to send a firearm or receiver into California in violation of California law. When a dealer accepts his FFL, he also agrees to abide by all state and local laws. See 27CFR §478.58

Thanks for posting the link to this code. If there were a violation of this code, it would have to be a federal prosecution, not a state prosecution, correct? Either way, that shouldn't be an issue since the CA DOJ has stated in print that they are legal, even though they are trying to scare everyone away when they comment off the record.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:57:36 PM EDT
12280. (a)(1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter.............

Only apply to Kalifornians?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:01:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
I would assume that home built 80% lowers would also be legal?



Anyone who tells you otherwise is smoking crack.

Same rules apply to stripped lowers:

-Detatchable mag= No Bayo lug, No flash suppressor, No pistol grip, No collapsable stock.

-Fixed mag= Pistol grip, Bayo lug, Flash suppressor, Collapsable stock are all ok.

-Rimfire= Everything is ok.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:56:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KillAgain:

Originally Posted By Paul:
I would assume that home built 80% lowers would also be legal?



Anyone who tells you otherwise is smoking crack.

Same rules apply to stripped lowers:

-Detatchable mag= No Bayo lug, No flash suppressor, No pistol grip, No collapsable stock.

-Fixed mag= Pistol grip, Bayo lug, Flash suppressor, Collapsable stock are all ok.

-Rimfire= Everything is ok.



Im not in on the reasons why but there is a guy in San Mateo County in big trouble because of a 80% lower., most of the guys who have spent the time reading the laws all say stay away from them.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:37:42 PM EDT
Well it seems that you get into this realm"""""manufactures or causes to be manufactured"""",
if you buy some parts and slap them together u aren't really manufacturing anything......ie....some assembly req'd
But if you start machining things than u cross that line.........

not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday inn last night.......
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:44:50 PM EDT
6172crew,

Is there any information on why or what happened to the guy who built up the 80%er? Please give a link of the problem he had or has.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:15:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 6ppc:
6172crew,

Is there any information on why or what happened to the guy who built up the 80%er? Please give a link of the problem he had or has.
Thanks.



The DOJ told a friend that was going to build one the story, I wasnt there. Sorry.

The DOJ is known to lie over the phone, they told me a JLD receiver was a no-go but everyone knows its ok, the guy told me over the phone it ws like an AR not a FAL or G3.

If you want to know you have to get it in writting and Im sure the reason we havent heard about the guy in San Mateo is his lawyer is telling him to shut the hell up and the media gives 2 shits about gun owners.

IMHO
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:44:36 AM EDT
I need help too. I came across this on Saturday and made a few calls on Monday with no success. I live in San Diego and can't seem to get any leads as to who to get the lower from. I figure once I can do that, I would worry about the second hurdle of getting an FFL to do the transfer for me. Or I would be willing to drive to the FFL if that's what it takes.

Please let me know if you have a lead as to where I can get a lower.

Thanks.

V.Muth
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:36:27 PM EDT
same here, need parts supplier
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:11:19 PM EDT
If it is true what you guys have said about not having the lower reciever listed as an AW than it's legal to owned, right? If this is true true, why don't we all get VULCAN lower and Remove the Fixed magazine!! because vulcan isn't listed. The only thing we can do right now is dream.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:35:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1clicc:
If it is true what you guys have said about not having the lower reciever listed as an AW than it's legal to owned, right? If this is true true, why don't we all get VULCAN lower and Remove the Fixed magazine!! because vulcan isn't listed. The only thing we can do right now is dream.



www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

Read away,, you have some catching up to do.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 9:23:21 PM EDT
Need help, looking for supplier and FFL I am in Norcal.
Please pm me any leads, Merry Christmas.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:56:17 PM EDT
I need info on WHAT lower I can buy legally to get in under the wire before it's added to the ban AND a so cal FFL that KNOWS/ has experience with selling this lower to me so I can have a smooth legal transaction. Please IM info.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:58:21 AM EDT
Head over to cal guns, and look at t he ak/ar faq at the top bar, it goes over the list of non acceptable guns. You decide for yourself which one you want to import. Merry Christmas
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:11:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KillAgain:

Originally Posted By Paul:
I would assume that home built 80% lowers would also be legal?



Anyone who tells you otherwise is smoking crack.

Same rules apply to stripped lowers:

-Detatchable mag= No Bayo lug, No flash suppressor, No pistol grip, No collapsable stock.

-Fixed mag= Pistol grip, Bayo lug, Flash suppressor, Collapsable stock are all ok.

-Rimfire= Everything is ok.

Is this true? and I know of an ffl that may transfer lowers for people in norcal. give me a pm.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:09:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:50:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:14:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_M:
We have decided to ship stripped lowers to CA.

We would prefer prepayment via money order from the FFL who will be handling the transfer in CA.



Email sent
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:35:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_M:
We have decided to ship stripped lowers to CA.

We would prefer prepayment via money order from the FFL who will be handling the transfer in CA.



email sent
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:47:59 AM EDT
the only lower i see on your sight is the Saber receiver and they are sold out. do you have others that are not listed on your sight and what is the price? although i already have mine i do have friends that will be interested. thanks for any info you can provide.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:23:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:30:05 PM EDT
thanks for the info i will pass it on.
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