User Panel
Posted: 12/6/2005 6:58:48 PM EDT
I came to work this morning (military) they had the metal detectors and xray machines set up checking before you could enter the building.
The security guards (contract security) said any knife with a blade over 2.5" was considered a weapon in Virginia and recommended returning it to your vehicle if you had one on you. I had always thought it was 3.5" blade length. Anyone know what Virginia state law says? |
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From the VSP page:
What are the laws concerning knives; specifically, the carrying of a non-concealed knife, and are there knife designs, blade sizes, etc., that are prohibited? Virginia Code Section 18.2-311 describes certain weapons, including some knives, which are illegal to possess in Virginia. Additionally, refer to Virginia Code Section 18.2-308 for specific prohibitions concerning concealed weapons. It is suggested that you contact your county or city authorities to inquire as to whether or not there are applicable local ordinances. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-311 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308 I found this also: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1 § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited. A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon or taser as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor... The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk. The ONLY thing that mentions blade length is the about SCHOOL property. I think he's full of shit. |
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I was told 3" as well. My Benchmade 705 is measured liberally at 2.98"
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I was told by a cop that the rule of thumb they use is the blade compared to the palm of their hand and he said most judges he's heard about tossed out anything under 4"
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Well my CRKT M16 is just barely less than 4 inches. If this is illegal then how could an FFL be selling them right over the counter in this state? I bought mine at a gun range. If it was illegal I doubt the dealer would be risking his FFL to sell them.
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I bought a 12" Chef knife from Macy's. I can't carry it around with me though. |
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I Was so sure the law was 4" everywhere.... that's why most full size folders have 4" blades, no?
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Thats what I thought as well. |
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I'm still sure too. I'd of walked right passed him that started a hissy fit when he stopped me. Then again, I don't have a job there..... |
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Yeah, I don't agree with the security folks at work and will have to make a point to find the head of security and ask him what he bases the 2.5 inch statement on, if it's even true.
Even when I lived in New York City (Brooklyn) they allowed folders with a blade length of 3.5" (IIRC). My Benchmade 520SK is 3.42 inches. However, I am not going to risk confiscation ($190 retail) and loss of job just to prove a point. On the guards behalf, I was pleased they warned everyone in advance giving the opportunity to return knives to personal vehicles. I appreciate the comments and the research into VA state statutes. |
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I don't think walking past the guards was an option. I would have found myself face down on the lobby floor in handcuffs waiting for the police to show up. The guards at work are generally nice guys/gals, but take their jobs seriously. The prudent approach is to challenge the policy. |
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The only thing that worries me is this applies to religious schools. Someone could get creative and count a church's sunday school as being one of those. Then you coulnd't bring knife OR gun (since no guns at church).
Maybe a collapsing baton for sunday school use |
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Dude, concealed means concealed. |
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It would be better to carry my Wustof around then to carry around my gun with no round in the chamber...... |
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In Virginia a 1" blade knife would be considered a weapon if it was used as one. So would a lug wrench. The question should be whether or not it is legal to carry a knife with a blade of whatever length. The answer is that in Virginia it is always legal unless it is expressly prohibited. The previous post regarding knives on school property is the only state law that I have been able to find in over three years of searching and questioning legal authorities. There may however be local laws that could affect you.
great post. not a weapon till used as one or specifically designated. Makes sense..... |
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guess i cant carry around my new Cold Steel SRK
but my gerber firestorm will do just fine...havent measured that yet though... |
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I always heard 4". I have a CRKT M16-14SF. it has a blade of 3.89".
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How do you figure? The code only deals with carry on school property. other than that, there is no law to violate. |
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well shit...works for me |
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So Bo and Luke Duke would be breaking the law with their Buck 110's in VA with it's 3 3/4" blade?
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Look at county codes for this one. Henrico for example has a blade length limit for a knife that is accessable while driving a vehicle. Other than that look at 18.2-308. It is kind of complex, unless you have a dagger or a boye knive you are ok. This means a fixed blade with more than one sharp edges or a partial second edge like a Kbar. A folder is not covered. A police officer could argue what constitues a weapon for the section. For this to work it must be concealed from common view to even dream of charging you for this. Clipped in your pocket will not cut it.
This is one of those stupid things that is in the book but never enforced. The security guard probably heard it from someone just like you. If it isnt a company policy or you are still military and carrying it for "duty" kindly tell him where he can go. |
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The thing is, it's not a VA issue with the knife. I've had my pocket knife (gerber folder) confiscated (by a very nice guard, I might add--he held on to it for the day, and found me as I was leaving to give it back) because the installation was federal property, and the you can't bring a knife longer than, if I remember correctly, 2.5" onto federal property (office building). I am not a lawyer, nor do I play on one TV. |
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That's one rough Sunday school |
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Nate This was federal property and 2.5 inches is what the security guard quoted me as the rule. However, he did quote state law as his source. I still have to check this out with the supervisor of the guard force, because I don't think this is correct. |
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My friend is a cop, and he learned in his Police training that the limit for blade length for a concealed knife is 3 inches. However, he told me that if the knife is clipped to your pocket so that the clip is visible (not covered by a coat or long shirt) than it is not considered concealed. In that case, you can carry a larger folding knife. I have seen a guy walking around at the mall with a 5 inch stag handled blade on his hip before, and nothing came of that.
Someone mentioned why would an FFL risk his license selling blades over 3 inches; it is not illeagal to own a knife over 3 inches, just to carry one concealed. There is also a misconception among many that switch blades and auto openers are illegal in VA. They are legal to own, but never legal to carry except for police and probably a few other elites. Spring assist are okay to carry, as long as they are not opened by the press of a button. |
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Could your friend who is a cop let us know what part of the VA code mentions this? Other than carry on school property, there doesn't seem to be anything to coroborate this claim. |
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The guard is probably mistaken, ore maybe full of shit. The problem is that the relevant federal statute on dangerous or deadly weapons is ambiguous, but states (IIRC) that in no case will a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2" be considered a deadly weapon. The law DOES NOT mean that a blade over 2 1/2" is a deadly weapon, but it may be depending upon the possessor's intent. Of course, the same applies to blades of less than 2/5" too. . . . ETA: Found the statute, 18 U.S.C. 930:
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