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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/4/2005 10:03:27 PM EDT
Here's the situation:


Private Citizen "A" owns a P22, converted so it's all kosher. He's gone back to school, and is a little short on cash. Pistol's located at folks' place in NorCal. PC "A" is actually attending school out of state.


Private Citizen "B" is interested in purchasing a P22. He lives in SoCal.


Face-to-Face transfer is obviously out of the question.


It has been discussed that the P22 could be sent to a local FFL in NorCal, who will mail it to a SoCal FFL, where the transfer to PC "B" could be completed. However, insiders have said that's "not possible," which may mean it's not legally possible, or that there's no FFL in the world who's willing to go through that kind of trouble when they can sell a new gun to PC "B"


Question is, is there a way to complete the transfer both legally, and without earning the wrath of involved FFLs?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 1:14:09 AM EDT
Can't a pistol be mailed to an FFL from a private citizen when doing out of state transfers? If that is the case (assuming it's ok with both state laws of person A and Person B) then have the parents of person A mail in to the FFL with the return address being Person A's out of state address. Then treat it like an out of state transfer. Note, the post office will check to make sure the address at least LOOK correct, so showing up in California with a return address of Florida won't work. Not sure how to get around it.

They could always just mail it to Person A and have Person A mail it back to the FFL.

That's the best I can come up with.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:38:29 AM EDT
Since the P22 is not on the California list of approved handguns , it cannot be sent to a California FFL for transfer. The P22CA is on the list but the P22 is not.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:12:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
Since the P22 is not on the California list of approved handguns , it cannot be sent to a California FFL for transfer. The P22CA is on the list but the P22 is not.



Yep.

If PC "B" wants the handgun, PC "A" needs to go back to NorCal, get the handgun and meet PC "B" in person at a FFL for the transfer. Also, PC "A" better still have a California ID.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 2:03:30 PM EDT
splain to me why it needs to be on the list as it is not a new fireaem being imported or sold in CA?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 3:18:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 3:19:14 PM EDT by HalfMoon]

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
splain to me why it needs to be on the list as it is not a new fireaem being imported or sold in CA?



The buyer is in Ca. The seller is in another state for school, but it seems claims Ca. as home. The buyer and seller are on different ends of the state and it seems they can't meet face to face for the PTP transfer where both parties must be at the FFL to do the transfer. Since it is going FFL to FFL it needs to be on the list. The only way to get something not on the list is to get it FTF, PTP.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 3:44:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 3:48:19 PM EDT by hawk1]

Originally Posted By HalfMoon:
The buyer is in Ca. The seller is in another state for school, but it seems claims Ca. as home. The buyer and seller are on different ends of the state and it seems they can't meet face to face for the PTP transfer where both parties must be at the FFL to do the transfer. Since it is going FFL to FFL it needs to be on the list. The only way to get something not on the list is to get it FTF, PTP.




Wrong. The firearm is already in the state so the certified list has nothing to with it. The certified list is only for firearms coming into the state.

Edited to add from the DOJ certified list webpage


Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.


justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:47:10 PM EDT
I wonder if Power of Attorney could work, like described in the other topic. You know, have person A give power of attorney to sell his handgun.

And the FFL can't release the firearm from their 'inventory'. Used or not, in the state or not, once the FFL accepts it, they must abide by all California laws. PPT is the only way to go.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:24:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hawk1:

Wrong. The firearm is already in the state so the certified list has nothing to with it. The certified list is only for firearms coming into the state.

Edited to add from the DOJ certified list webpage


Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.


justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf



Well, 3 different FFLs in the bay area told me last year that in order to do a Private Party Transfer, both parties have to be at the same FFL with ID in hand. So my option was to drive to San Diego, or have the seller drive to the San Jose area. Shipping a PPT according to them wasn't allowed. One of them easily sells more guns than anyone in the bay area, and the other two had the same story without me telling them I heard it all before.

My advice to mall Ninja is, definately ask YOUR FFL if they believe that is the law before the seller ships the gun. Three FFLs in my area wouldn't touch it and it would've just become a headache/nightmare.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 11:16:37 PM EDT
This statement is not correct. CA-based FFLs cannot sell guns in-state that are not on the approved list even if they are already in CA. The cited language lists importation as only one of the restricted activities. Add to it the sale, lending, etc. as separate no-nos (that's a legal term). They cannot take the gun into their inventory (for example, for a consignment sale), but they can do private party transfers.

The whole list business is idiotic. I have a 1960s-era High Standard Model 106 Citation tied up at an FFL because DOJ has not yet approved the gun for the Exempt List of Olympic Pistols (even though Citations have been used for NRA Small Bore for over 50 years, and even though High Standard - the original company - went out of business more than 20 years ago). Other High Standards are exempt, although the gun that won several Olympic Gold Medals, a slant-grip Olympic, is NOT on the exempt list. Neither is the 10X (a custom-tuned version of the Citation that is the most accurate pistol High Standard ever built). The Sharpshooter - a field gun with fixed sights - is on the list. Go figure.

USA Shooting is supposed to provide the CA AG with a list of guns that should be exempted, but they haven't gotten around to adding various High Standards that have been used for Olympic-style shooting for more than five decades. I've been bugging them since late-2004 with zero assistance. Why they are so non-responsive is a mystery to me.

The P22 is not going to get on the exempt list, since it's basically a plinking gun (nothing personal, but that's a fact).

Good luck on this project, and be sure to comply fully with the law.




Originally Posted By hawk1:

Originally Posted By HalfMoon:
The buyer is in Ca. The seller is in another state for school, but it seems claims Ca. as home. The buyer and seller are on different ends of the state and it seems they can't meet face to face for the PTP transfer where both parties must be at the FFL to do the transfer. Since it is going FFL to FFL it needs to be on the list. The only way to get something not on the list is to get it FTF, PTP.




Wrong. The firearm is already in the state so the certified list has nothing to with it. The certified list is only for firearms coming into the state.

Edited to add from the DOJ certified list webpage


Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.


justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 11:21:08 PM EDT
Clarification. The statement that both parties must be present to do the transfer in the previous reply is correct.

The wrong statement is that posted by hawk1 which implies that the parties do not have to be at the same FFL. The last time I did a private party transfer, we both went to the FFL in person at the same time to do the paperwork.
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