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Posted: 5/16/2003 3:53:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 3:48:38 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Update:

Contact: Doug Gross dgross@wdn.com

Since there have been conjectures that CCW in Maryland may be a little less impossible under the administration of Maryland's new governor, Montgomery Citizens for a Safer Maryland (MCSM, a pro-self-defense, pro-gun-rights club in Montgomery County, Maryland; www.mcsm.org) started out with the idea that a few MCSM members would undertake the application process, and MCSM would help in this by giving them some funds, about $65 each, to help take the bite out of the non-refundable application cost that now stands at about $117.

MCSM now has some members who have decided to participate in this, and MCSM has been contacted about a number of people who possibly would like to try also. These new people are more than we can provide financial help for, but, there will be a benefit for them too, in that one or more excellent legal counselors have kindly made themselves available to contribute general expertise and advice to the applicants.

This will be arranged in a way that is designed to avoid hitting the counselors hard, time-wise, and its preferred form will be a get-together of (1) the counselors with (2) as many of the applicants whose schedule will fit.

At this meeting, two important things will go on. One, the counselors will be able to distribute as much good advice in one meeting as possible, and (two) the participants will get a complete idea of how an important part of their job, in turn, is to log the progress, events, interactions, and impressions of their respective application experiences. This is so that the data - the "collective saga", if you will - of what the participants go through can be made into a presentation and, very presumably, a "plea for change" that should be fit for taking to the highest levels of Maryland's government.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:51:25 AM EDT
I was listening to that Ron Smith show yesterday. I'm left unsure of the whole deal. The caller's next questions was if that meant the average citizen could get a CCW. Erhlich responded with "well lets just say they won't be plaing any games anymore."

I have no idea what he meant by that statement.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:53:34 AM EDT
YEah, as yu all know I would like to carry on the up and up from now on but I dont want to throw $185 out the window either.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:54:09 AM EDT
I dont know, it might be worth it though.....................
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:06:40 PM EDT
E-mail Sent.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:19:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2003 5:19:57 AM EDT by BBQMAN]
Any cost involved or is he doing it free?

Either way I'm in.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 1:21:48 PM EDT
He's doing it free.

We'll probably need to rent a room somewhere, so maybe a small fee for that.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 7:30:09 PM EDT
How about out of state residents? Will Maryland issue to DE?
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 7:31:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZMan:

How about out of state residents? Will Maryland issue to DE?



I'll ask.

I'm in the same boat, I left Merryland last year and escaped up to Pennsylvania.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 9:25:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZMan:
How about out of state residents? Will Maryland issue to DE?



I dont think they issue to out of state.

Go to
www.packing.org and look up MD
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 4:36:07 AM EDT
I don't think they issue to out of state either, but here's something interesting.

My uncle lives in VA and has a CCW. He said that that he's allowed to travel into MD with his pistol and that MD will honor VA's CCW permit under some general law between the states concerning reciprocity. Just like a MD driver can travel through other states and they honor their home state drivers license. They told him that this applies for all states surrounding VA except for Washington DC. Can anyone confirm this?
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 5:06:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 5:08:11 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By Silver78:
that MD will honor VA's CCW permit under some general law between the states concerning reciprocity.



Totally FALSE.

www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/maryland

Permits that this state honors:
State Resident/Non-resident1 Date Updtd Note
No matching states


Yes, all states are *supposed* to honor other states legal documents, but CCW isn't one of those.

If it were true, (and it should be under the Constitution), then anyone could just get a Florida permit and carry anywhere in the nation. I WISH it were that easy.

VA won't even take my PA CCW.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 12:06:21 PM EDT
fight4yourrights:

Thanks for the info. I will pass this on to my Uncle. I'm not surprised. It seemed too good to be true.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 4:00:49 AM EDT
Any idea when your friend would be doing this? Just to get an idea.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:25:12 AM EDT
He's checking some issues right now - primarily checking the "3 verified death threat" provision.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 3:47:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
He's checking some issues right now - primarily checking the "3 verified death threat" provision.



If he finds out that this is still needed, find out how long ago the threats can be. I had a stint with a scumbag the FBI was trying to find two years ago that kept threatening me and shit.
I can get all the files from the FBI and DOJ if they are needed.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 8:39:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 9:08:44 AM EDT by BBQMAN]
I was talking to my FFL last week and he said all you have to say is that you want to protect yourself and that the Supreme Court ruled that Police departments are not here to protect us, they're more of a peace keeping force. Some police department in California had to take "To Protect" off its cruisers and whatever else it had it on.

Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:53:43 AM EDT
TACKED!
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 8:53:22 AM EDT
Anything more happeneing with this? I have 2 more firend interested in this if it happens. One of them informed me though that the CCW's are only temporary I think as long as 5 years is the max. So, if Ehrlich is gone and some new Butt-head is in there we could be without again. Just a point he made.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 6:29:44 PM EDT
I haven't heard back yet.

I'll drop him a line.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:40:18 AM EDT
The legislative VP of the AGC got to talk with Mr Ehrlich last week. Legislatively it isnt' going to happen its not good for either Ehrlich nor the Firearms community at this time (however after the re-election it will be a good time to look at it).

However they both looked at what they could do with regulations and agreed the Col of the State Police is the discretionary power on what consitutes 'need'. (there is zero legislation requiring 3 death threats or carrying cash /jewlery in excess of $1500)

BTW word has it the current State Police commander really dislikes the prior commander. It seems the prior administration refused to grant him a CCW when he was head of the Baltimore police force...
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:16:51 AM EDT
Yeah, so, from what I've heard all you need to say is "I want to protect myself", in MD that's supposed to be enough.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:52:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BBQMAN:

Yeah, so, from what I've heard all you need to say is "I want to protect myself", in MD that's supposed to be enough.



Where did you hear that?

That has never been enough.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:12:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Where did you hear that?

That has never been enough.



The law was written so that WOULD be enough. It just hasn't been enforced that way - hopefully the new State Police Comissioner will see it our way.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:09:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
The law was written so that WOULD be enough. It just hasn't been enforced that way - hopefully the new State Police Comissioner will see it our way.



If he doesn't give us our right to carry, would most of you come to a protest outside his office if I was able to get some other people to go? The only way us MD'ers to start getting things we want and need is to voice out our opinions and reactions.

What do you all think?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:13:06 PM EDT
Like I said about the Supreme Court's ruling that the Police aren't here to protect us. I want to find out about that and see what it actually says.

Anyone know where you could get a copy if at all of that?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:07:18 PM EDT
M4 if you want to protest I'm there.After my home was broken into twice I called and talked to the head of the firearms division at State police HQ and he sympathised but said I didn't have a good enough reason to get one. I told him I was going to move to VA so I could protect my family and he kind of chuckled sadly and said he didn't blame me.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:01:46 AM EDT
Thanks 2IDdoc,

If things do not look brigther I would like to get a protest up and going. Hell, I would visit almost every gun shop in the state and tack up flyers and talk to people to ty tet get things moving.

Sad thing is. I have spoken to many in the hunting world who think people dont need the right to a CHL! Talk about your "the friends you love to hate"!
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 3:24:20 AM EDT
Has this died???
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:31:29 PM EDT
No, I just heard back from the lawyer.

Apparantly he's running it through MCSM.

I'll find out some info and post it.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 4:07:43 PM EDT
Sweet!! I was just hoping your lawyer friend didn't say forget it...there's no chance in hell.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 4:10:35 PM EDT
Cool,

Whats "MCSM" ?
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 4:56:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2003 4:57:43 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Montgomery Citizens for a Safer Maryland

www.mcsm.org/
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 7:12:20 AM EDT
I'd love to get a CCW, but I don't have any particular threats/job related need. If anyone hears something on this please post/email. Thanks.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 7:36:07 AM EDT
You live in the state that is #1 in robbery and has been for 8 years.

Contact MSCM and see what the current *may* issue criteria is.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 7:05:26 AM EDT
Has anyone contacted or heard back from MCSM? I've emailed them twice about the CCW info, and they still haven't got back to me.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 12:38:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 12:38:57 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Verified point of contact at MCSM:

Doug Gross dgross@wdn.com
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 3:23:56 AM EDT
Anyone else hear about that lawyer in Baltimore County that is taking his denied CCW permit to the courts??

I saw it last night on Fox 45 news. He was saying all the stuff that we've been saying about the B.S. regulations and hoops that MD makes everyone jump through and the fact that decent law abiding citizens can't protect themselves in MD if they want to.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 4:04:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 4:10:44 AM EDT by BBQMAN]
Ok, managed to find something on

www.foxbaltimore.com/foxindex.html
Then click on question of the day on the right side.

Here's the story, its also a poll on their site:


Do you think Maryland citizens should be allowed to carry handguns for protection?



It's against the law for Maryland residents to carry a handgun without having a specific reason, but one Baltimore County man is determined to change that. Bob Scherr marched into the courthouse Friday prepared to take aim at the law. The attorney and radio talk show host has long been a proponent of personal protection. "Law abiding citizens have a right to own and carry guns," says Sherr, "The police cannot protect people. The police are the people you call after the crime is committed." So last year, Scherr filed an application asking for a permit to carry a handgun and the state refused to grant it. Right now, if you want to carry a handgun in Maryland, you must apply for a permit and prove to the state police that you have a substantial reason to carry one. Scherr took his handgun fight to a circuit judge. He filed a suit challenging the state law, which bars citizens, like him, from carrying a handgun. Assistant Attorney General Mark H. Bowen argued, "There have been no threats against him, no attacks upon him and his general statement of 'I'm a citizen and I need a gun,' is not substantial reason to have a permit." Scherr feels that the laws don't stop criminals from having guns because criminals don't care about the law. He feels that the law stops law-abiding citizens from owning guns for protection against armed criminals. Scherr is now awaiting the judge's opinion. The fight over handguns in this state is in the hands of the court. Currently, 36 states in this country allow residents to carry handguns.


Link Posted: 7/22/2003 9:24:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 9:27:49 AM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Hell yeah!
We should (if he wants) go to the couthouse to support him. No acmo or carhart clothes. Come in a shirt and tie to show that we are not rednecks, we are citizens who care about rights and protection and we can handel it.

fight4yourrights, can you contact the said lawyer and see if he would like our support via being present during the hearings?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 10:03:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
Hell yeah!
We should (if he wants) go to the couthouse to support him. No acmo or carhart clothes. Come in a shirt and tie to show that we are not rednecks, we are citizens who care about rights and protection and we can handel it.

fight4yourrights, can you contact the said lawyer and see if he would like our support via being present during the hearings?



I like that idea!! I'm sure he'd like to know that there's a large group of us that not only support him but would join the fight with him.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 11:01:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
Hell yeah!
We should (if he wants) go to the couthouse to support him. No acmo or carhart clothes. Come in a shirt and tie to show that we are not rednecks, we are citizens who care about rights and protection and we can handel it.

fight4yourrights, can you contact the said lawyer and see if he would like our support via being present during the hearings?



If this guy Sherr is OK with us being there for support, I'm in!
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 5:43:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

fight4yourrights, can you contact the said lawyer and see if he would like our support via being present during the hearings?



That's not the lawyer I've been talking with.

So, I don't know the guy in Baltimore.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 5:41:14 AM EDT
I hate to say it, but the chances of a MD court ruling our way on this is about 0. This is going to have to be done legislatively or by federal ct decision. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, though.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 5:53:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vote_republican:
I hate to say it, but the chances of a MD court ruling our way on this is about 0. This is going to have to be done legislatively or by federal ct decision. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, though.



Shhhh... c'mon let us enjoy our denial for a little bit.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 2:46:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vote_republican:
I hate to say it, but the chances of a MD court ruling our way on this is about 0. This is going to have to be done legislatively or by federal ct decision. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, though.



We don't need any new legislation so are chances are good.

We already have a whole CHL law, system and licensing department.

The only freaking thing holding you or I getting a CHL in Maryland in the strict issuing from the Socialist Police Force of the Sheeples republic of Maryland (MDSP).

If we could get the MDSP CLEO to go easy and have a constitutional mindset, we would be issued CHL's
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 5:42:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

We already have a whole CHL law, system and licensing department.

The only freaking thing holding you or I getting a CHL in Maryland in the strict issuing from the Socialist Police Force of the Sheeples republic of Maryland (MDSP).

If we could get the MDSP CLEO to go easy and have a constitutional mindset, we would be issued CHL's


The law itself has very strict requirements (evidence of threats, police reports, etc). I haven't been threatened, I'm not the owner of a business with large cash deposits. I think this law is stupid and unconstitutional, but it's there, and until some judge overturns it, it's the law in MD.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 7:21:26 AM EDT
I'm quite possibly speaking out of my ass, but I don't think it's actually a law, I think it's a policy of the MDSP. That means there's no need for a judge (like a MD judge would ever relax a gun law), we need the governor or the head of the MDSP to change it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 11:32:41 AM EDT
Personally, I think there is a snowball's chance in hell that CCW procedure will change in this state as much as I hate to say it.

Just for the sake of argument, would it be possible to make a Constitutional argument that the existing legislation does not grant Equal Protection under the Law? It would appear that law-abiding citizens who are not threatened or attacked are discriminated against. The Constitution specifically addresses that laws apply to all citizens.

Just a thought
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 1:47:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:

Just for the sake of argument, would it be possible to make a Constitutional argument that the existing legislation does not grant Equal Protection under the Law? It would appear that law-abiding citizens who are not threatened or attacked are discriminated against. The Constitution specifically addresses that laws apply to all citizens.



Its a good thought, but when you have judges that wipe ass with the state and Federal constitution they wont have the same mindset.

I tell you, they are nothing but socialists.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 8:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:
Personally, I think there is a snowball's chance in hell that CCW procedure will change in this state as much as I hate to say it.

Just for the sake of argument, would it be possible to make a Constitutional argument that the existing legislation does not grant Equal Protection under the Law? It would appear that law-abiding citizens who are not threatened or attacked are discriminated against. The Constitution specifically addresses that laws apply to all citizens.

Just a thought



That is an interesting perspective. Does anybody know if the "equal protection clause" angle has been used successfully for 2nd Amendment rights anywhere else in the nation?

Keep us updated.

MIerinMD
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