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Posted: 7/5/2012 9:52:06 AM EDT
A thread in the armory got me thinking about safes again. I was curious if or local LEOs have seen any residential safes being broken into successfully.  If not residential then how about commercial.

Ever seen a safe successfullybroken into?



safe thread
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 10:05:18 AM EDT
[#1]
I had a 1.5 CF guardall safe bolted down in the corner of a second floor walk in closet.  The bolt was a 4" long (3/8" diameter) lag screw into a wooden floor joist.  The safe weighed over 175# with contents.  My house was broken into and the safe was removed.

I will never have another safe attached to wood framing.  The only exception is if I could get under the floor framing and reinforce with steel between the joists.

The other suggestion I have is to keep safes out of sight as much as possible.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 10:17:00 AM EDT
[#2]
tap,

how did they break off the bolt?


Link Posted: 7/5/2012 10:19:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Ive seen quite a few burglaries in my time, but never seen a safe broken into or removed.  

I personally think its a catch-22.  Good safe will keep a lot of local idiots from stealing valuable stuff, on the other hand, it also indicates there are valuables inside and may provoke a specific attack on the safe.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 10:31:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I had a 1.5 CF guardall safe bolted down in the corner of a second floor walk in closet.  The bolt was a 4" long (3/8" diameter) lag screw into a wooden floor joist.  The safe weighed over 175# with contents.  My house was broken into and the safe was removed.

I will never have another safe attached to wood framing.  The only exception is if I could get under the floor framing and reinforce with steel between the joists.

The other suggestion I have is to keep safes out of sight as much as possible.



More info please.....but essentially they reminded the safe and took it with then to work on it at their leisure right?

That does make me wonder is the two 1/2 concrete anchors is enough.....I never liked that they were inline with each other. I would have thought they would have beenoff set or 4 of them.

Also did they being their own tools our did they find something laying in your house? Ant idea how long they were in there?
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 11:32:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Safes are rarely broken into onsite. They are either removed, or the owner is forced to open it at gunpoint.

Getting it out of sight is the best idea. But I'd still bolt it down to concrete, if possible.

We also have a cheap wall safe that we put some cheap costume jewelry, a busted pistol, a couple hundred bucks in cash, and some relatively worthless silver coins in. This way, if we're forced by an invader to open the safe, we can take them to that one and let them have what's in it. Sure, it's a few hundred bucks, but none of the stuff would be impossible to replace.

Az
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 11:43:21 AM EDT
[#6]
AZ that's funny. There is a tread in there now about a guy that has that cheap"safe" as the hidden door to his real safe room. Security through obscurity :-)

He has a lock pin on the back wall of that safe that is the release to allow it to roll away on casters


ETA: what would be even better would for that busted up pistol to be a shiney new hipoint with a squib stuck in the barrel!  Hopefully they will use it on their next victim, or even worse yet if they decided to turn your own gun on you!
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 12:34:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had a 1.5 CF guardall safe bolted down in the corner of a second floor walk in closet.  The bolt was a 4" long (3/8" diameter) lag screw into a wooden floor joist.  The safe weighed over 175# with contents.  My house was broken into and the safe was removed.

I will never have another safe attached to wood framing.  The only exception is if I could get under the floor framing and reinforce with steel between the joists.

The other suggestion I have is to keep safes out of sight as much as possible.



More info please.....but essentially they reminded the safe and took it with then to work on it at their leisure right?

That does make me wonder is the two 1/2 concrete anchors is enough.....I never liked that they were inline with each other. I would have thought they would have beenoff set or 4 of them.

Also did they being their own tools our did they find something laying in your house? Ant idea how long they were in there?


The subfloor was totally busted and removed around the safe.  It looked like they used a pry bar or claw hammer but none of my tools (in the basement) were out of place.  Once the subfloor was damaged, they were able to pry the safe from the joist.

No idea how long they were there but my alarm system did not go off.  They were creative how they entered the house and at the time my house did not have a motion detector.

1/2" diameter concrete anchors are very strong; however, with leverage you can probably bend and tear the thin sheet metal on the safe.

Luckily, this safe was just for a few small items that we needed to access on a daily basis.  I had a couple of pistols (one was recovered within a few months) and some blank checks.  The next day a few of the checks were forged and cashed a at bank.  APD caught one of the check cashers but they said someone gave them the check and they were let free and charges dropped.

Link Posted: 7/5/2012 4:54:33 PM EDT
[#8]
remember the move  'in cold blood'. famous murder case. two institutional guys heard this farmer kept a safe with money it it so they broke into his house, killed him and his wife and daughter. no safe.

mathews murder case is somewhat famous in georgia. two doctors, man and wife team were murdered. the rumor was they kept several thousand dollars in their house for some reason (forgot the details but i knew the DA and his assistants during the trials which were interesting to watch due to bobby lee cook).

there was some cops, mostly from atlanta years ago that got into weight lifting big time so they could pick safes and carry them out of wherever they robbed them from.

safes make me nervous. a friend of a friend with a relative sees the safe and tells his cousin who just got out of jail for meth possession about this guy who has this safe with money and gold. meth boy tells his buds while they're smoking some rock. next thing you know you have unwelcome guests.

you have a safe, never let ANYONE know.

and motion detectors in a house are a must. more important than perimeter sensors. guy i know, his parents go on vacation. crooks drive around back of their house, used a chainsaw to cut right through the side and into the living room. backed up a truck on loaded it up with everything... no doors, no windows and no broken glass...
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 5:31:56 PM EDT
[#9]
I've worked many burglaries in which safes were either taken or broken into. I have also recovered many safes off site that had been broken into. The thing about safes is like any other security measure, they make a criminal commit more time and effort to complete the act, nothing more. I have seen the highest end professional safe cracked in a recent high profile jewelry store burglary in which the preparations were very elaborate, and they were ultimately successful....until they were later arrested at least.

I think safes are a good idea, as long as you have realistic expectations about their purpose and capabilities. At least you're making them work hard for it. Layered with a good security system, and watchful neighbors, you're getting somewhere.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 6:30:58 PM EDT
[#10]
I am not an expert on safes but I know a little bit about metal from working in a machine shop.
My concern for my safe and it applies to most gun safes is this.
I have a ft. Knox by the way.
The companies make a door system that looks like it would be fairly difficult to defeat but the sides and top seem to be Thin enough to open up with an axe or saws all.
Has anyone seen a decent gun safe opened up like a tin of beans?

Link Posted: 7/5/2012 6:38:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I am not an expert on safes but I know a little bit about metal from working in a machine shop.
My concern for my safe and it applies to most gun safes is this.
I have a ft. Knox by the way.
The companies make a door system that looks like it would be fairly difficult to defeat but the sides and top seem to be Thin enough to open up with an axe or saws all.
Has anyone seen a decent gun safe opened up like a tin of beans?



Yes I have, they usually attack it on an upper front corner with some heavy cutting tool. I have seen them wrap a chain around a large safe, tie that to a tow strap and pull the thing out of a house with a truck. Then open it elsewhere. If they've got the time and the tools they'll get in. You just have to make it too risky for them to get away with it. I have also seen many burglaries in which large, quality safes (like your Ft. Knox) weren't opened or even tampered with because the criminal didn't bring or have the tools necessary to do the deed. So they have their place and are much better than having your guns stacked in a closet somewhere.
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