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Posted: 4/16/2008 3:53:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 3:57:51 AM EDT by Chucks1911]
Heard from the vendor that I bought the ammo from that kaboomed my friends rifle. He pulled more than a few bullets to check the loads and it seems that they were under loaded. By 5 whole grains! Turns out that this ammo is a batch that he bought from another vendor and reboxed it. The initial vendor who sold it to him is in prison on unrelated charges.

So..... Federal brass+undercharged powder load= KABOOM.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 3:56:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:
Heard from the vendor that I bought the ammo from that kaboomed my friends rifle. He pulled more than a few bullets to check the loads and it seems that they were under loaded. By 5 whole grams! Turns out that this ammo is a batch that he bought from another vendor and reboxed it. The initial vendor who sold it to him is in prison on unrelated charges.

So..... Federal brass+undercharged powder load= KABOOM.


Don't you love those gun show vendors?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 4:28:48 PM EDT
Winchester ball powder?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 4:49:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 6:59:38 PM EDT by Fister]


Did the rifle get replaced?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:43:54 PM EDT
Sometimes under filled cases with a fast burning powder build up pressure faster than if the case was full. A full case will slow down the burn rate and gas expansion.
Ball powders are funny in some regards with smaller cased rounds.
lifestar17 knows what he is talking about. My first guess was a Winchester powder (742 to be exact) too.
But we won't know for sure what the ammo load was.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:14:41 PM EDT
you mean winchester 748?

only other winchester rifle powder I can think of is 760.


winchester 748 is pretty good powder right up to max loadings, unless it's hot outside, then it acts a bit funny, starts flattening/blowing out primers, sticky bolt/case etc.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:23:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 3:58:24 AM EDT by Chucks1911]

Originally Posted By lifestar17:
Winchester ball powder?


I don't know. I don't even know if he knows. It was a ball powder though. I do remember that he said that it was supposed to be loaded with 26.5 grains, but all he checked were dead on 21.5 grains.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:28:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 6:34:21 PM EDT by danc46]

Originally Posted By Ndenway:
you mean winchester 748?

only other winchester rifle powder I can think of is 760.


winchester 748 is pretty good powder right up to max loadings, unless it's hot outside, then it acts a bit funny, starts flattening/blowing out primers, sticky bolt/case etc.


Yep, 748, not 742
I haven't had any problems with 748 but it sure is hard on throats.
I've been using IMR 4895 and it seems to do real well in my 223s and 308s.
Didn't you burn your throat out on a Rem 700 308 varmint with heavy loads of 748?
Seems like that is what I remember from a previous conversation.
Here are the burn rates of the reloading powders. Win 748 is about middle of the road. So I was wrong about it being a fast burning powder.
But I know it does burn hot.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:33:48 PM EDT
Reminds me of the Winchester 296 I have used in my 44 mag. Books says to use exactly XX amount and to not go above or beyond. Burns hot enough as is.

As a reloader I do understand the underloading on this ammo. I never buy or use someones reloads, badddd  juju.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:36:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SLYHUNTR:
Reminds me of the Winchester 296 I have used in my 44 mag. Books says to use exactly XX amount and to not go above or beyond. Burns hot enough as is.

As a reloader I do understand the underloading on this ammo. I never buy or use someones reloads, badddd  juju.

296 is like Bullseye - fast and damn dangerous if overcharged.
It's good on 9mm Parebellum reloads.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:49:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:

Originally Posted By Ndenway:
you mean winchester 748?

only other winchester rifle powder I can think of is 760.


winchester 748 is pretty good powder right up to max loadings, unless it's hot outside, then it acts a bit funny, starts flattening/blowing out primers, sticky bolt/case etc.


Yep, 748, not 742
I haven't had any problems with 748 but it sure is hard on throats.
I've been using IMR 4895 and it seems to do real well in my 223s and 308s.
Didn't you burn your throat out on a Rem 700 308 varmint with heavy loads of 748?
Seems like that is what I remember from a previous conversation.



yeah I shot approx 4k of warmed up ammo loaded with 748 through my 700 when the barrel started going south fast (3/4" 5 shot groups to 6"+ within 60 rounds or so), it had approx 3k of h380 loads through it before the 748 loads though, so I got pretty good life outta the barrel shooting "ball" powder.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:01:41 PM EDT
I hope you meant grains not grams.  I gram of smokeless powder equals 15.4 grains.  A charge of 21.5 grams would be around 331 grains, much more powder than a .223 case could hold.

I suspect those cartridges were loaded with the wrong powder, one that burns much faster than 748, possibly a handgun powder such as 296.

It might have been a powder hopper that had not been completely emptied before switching to reloading a different cartridge or any number of mistakes the reloader made.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 3:57:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Condition_1:
I hope you meant grains not grams.  I gram of smokeless powder equals 15.4 grains.  A charge of 21.5 grams would be around 331 grains, much more powder than a .223 case could hold.

I suspect those cartridges were loaded with the wrong powder, one that burns much faster than 748, possibly a handgun powder such as 296.

It might have been a powder hopper that had not been completely emptied before switching to reloading a different cartridge or any number of mistakes the reloader made.


Yes, I meant grains.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 3:59:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fister:


Did the rifle get replaced?


I'll let you know when I find out.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 5:52:32 AM EDT
I have a ?????  was this 55gr or 62gr    
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:35:48 AM EDT
+1 on replacement of rifle?
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:48:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sumoj275:
+1 on replacement of rifle?


I think Chuck is wanting us to take up a collection and buy him a new rifle. It sounds like a good idea, but I think it should be done for me first because Chuck is uglier than me.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 4:10:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:

Originally Posted By Sumoj275:
+1 on replacement of rifle?


I think Chuck is wanting us to take up a collection and buy him a new rifle. It sounds like a good idea, but I think it should be done for me first because Chuck is uglier than me.


I'd not turn down a free rifle Even though it wasn't mine that kaboomed. However, I am the one that it kaboomed on so I am the one suffering all the emotional trauma, etc

What I lack in looks, I make up for in intelligence
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 8:55:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:


What I lack in looks, I make up for in intelligence


Wow you must be one smart son of a _itch then

<--- Bowing to the smartest person on Earth
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:13:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fister:

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:


What I lack in looks, I make up for in intelligence


Wow you must be one smart son of a _itch then

<--- Bowing to the smartest person on Earth


It's a heavy burden, I'll tell you






Wait a minute. I wasn't notified that I officially passed you?
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:23:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:

Originally Posted By Fister:

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:


What I lack in looks, I make up for in intelligence


Wow you must be one smart son of a _itch then

<--- Bowing to the smartest person on Earth


It's a heavy burden, I'll tell you






Wait a minute. I wasn't notified that I officially passed you?


Well, all I can say is that 1shott thinks my ego needs a wide angle lens to capture on film.
I personally think it won't be able to handle my brilliance.
It's not easy being incredibly handsome, immensely intelligent, or so endearingly modest like a I am.
Eat your hearts out, guys!
Only Ndenway comes close to matching my superior looks and intelligence.
A far second of course.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 6:22:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:

Originally Posted By Fister:

Originally Posted By Chucks1911:


What I lack in looks, I make up for in intelligence


Wow you must be one smart son of a _itch then

<--- Bowing to the smartest person on Earth


It's a heavy burden, I'll tell you






Wait a minute. I wasn't notified that I officially passed you?


Well, all I can say is that 1shott thinks my ego needs a wide angle lens to capture on film.
I personally think it won't be able to handle my brilliance.
It's not easy being incredibly handsome, immensely intelligent, or so endearingly modest like a I am.
Eat your hearts out, guys!
Only Ndenway comes close to matching my superior looks and intelligence.
A far second of course.



well Dan, looks ain't everything, just as long as mine keeps attracting drunk, desparate and horny chicks, I ain't gonna worry about them.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 7:42:24 PM EDT
Back to the Winchester ball.  The starting loads and the higher loads are not the ones that cause the problem.  The light charge causes a rebound effect and the force is directed in a direction other than out the end of the case.  It is not something that comes on gradual with small changes.  It isn't there on one charge  and then, bam, its there with just a small change as small as a few tehths of a grain.  I with I had the original info from Winchester.  When that happens it is acting like RDX and C4 and blows toward the area of most resistance.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 8:17:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lifestar17:
Back to the Winchester ball.  The starting loads and the higher loads are not the ones that cause the problem.  The light charge causes a rebound effect and the force is directed in a direction other than out the end of the case.  It is not something that comes on gradual with small changes.  It isn't there on one charge  and then, bam, its there with just a small change as small as a few tehths of a grain.  I with I had the original info from Winchester.  When that happens it is acting like RDX and C4 and blows toward the area of most resistance.


Here's something I found on Winchester 296. yarchive.net/gun/ammo/reduced_loads.html
I'd like to find that article that you're talking about.
I'll google it some more.
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