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Posted: 8/13/2004 12:27:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:51:52 AM EST
what a bummer. I live right around the corner (gilbert/houston) I frequent that area alot, so I'll be doing a bit of creative writing :) Does vestar manage the entire lot including the wally world section? Try the Gilbert theaters on Gilbert/Warner... maybe their policies are different.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:53:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:58:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Originally Posted By mindtrix:
what a bummer. I live right around the corner (gilbert/houston) I frequent that area alot, so I'll be doing a bit of creative writing :) Does vestar manage the entire lot including the wally world section? Try the Gilbert theaters on Gilbert/Warner... maybe their policies are different.



Yes it does manage the Walmart, which makes me think it is bullshit....Walmart is one of the largest firearms retailers in the country...so how does this no Weapons policy work?



Yeah, thats sort of what I was thinking. I guess you can't buy or handle their weapons there anymore. I mean, its against policy and all. I can't believe they didn't let you back inside to talk to your friends. How hard would that have been, with a police escort! Jeeze.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:13:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 1:35:48 AM EST by sonofbp]
I call Bullshit on the theatre.

I saw the last LOTR movie there, while open carrying.
I made it a point to ask the ticket booth guy if it was cool.
Just becouse I saw no signs didn't mean there were none.
He said no problem.
No sign no issue, if they ask you to leave they should expect to give a full refund in cash.
I've been asked to leave a Denny's with no sign posted half way through a meal and recieved no bill. I didn't argue I verified that we would not need to pay the bill left a tip for the waitress and left.

I guess the CAV guys will be going to another theatre.
Too bad that one is so convenient.
I've already sent corrospondance and raised the BS flag.
Maybe they will be swayed by the thought of losing money, the great equalizer.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:21:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 1:21:35 AM EST by TheFNG]
Anyone who wishes to visit this theatre while open carrying and check to see if they have changed their policy "in writing" will get two free ticket passes.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:42:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 4:44:56 AM EST by prebans]
I call bullshit on the theater also.

Sounds to me like you had some whiny Kalifornian refugee complain to management-- I wonder if they were giving you problems about a complete refund because they lost revenue from multiple people in the process of contenting a single one.

Trust me-- this WILL get letters. ALL of my students will hear about this-- I've got three CCW classes in the next three weeks ALONE. AMC and Vestar will be made aware that I'm spreading this to all of my firearms students and to all of the firearms shops that I work with and from.

I'll post any replies that I get.

EDITED-- Sinistral: Got any employee names that I can reference in those letters? How many in your party got booted and how many stayed?

Mike
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:48:13 AM EST
Dang and such!

I must give you credit for being an open carrier. I used to do it more back when I was younger. But frankly I find myself pulling my shirt over my pistol if I see anyone around. I've grown tired of the Stupidity of the General Public.



Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:51:16 AM EST
don't feel bad, i was booted in the monroe MI mall theatre on my wedding anniversary for packing

ruined the anniversary, and i was threatened by the nice officer in front of a bunch of people, what a lovely night

december 15th, 2000 a date that will live in infamy

i have never returned to the mall, no matter how cool the movie is, not how awesome the doohickey is that i wish to buy from them, screw them and the mall they rode in on
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 5:40:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:12:20 AM EST
I posted this on the AZRKBA list........alot of Az gun rights "heavy hitters" read that, mayhaps they can help out.

Biggame223

Out
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:32:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Biggame223:
I posted this on the AZRKBA list........alot of Az gun rights "heavy hitters" read that, mayhaps they can help out.

Biggame223

Out



Good idea-- Sinistral, may I have your permission to copy and paste your complete post to an Arizona CCW listserve I'm on?

Thanks,

Mike
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:34:59 AM EST
That a bunch of Bullshit. I carry there all the time.

I'll be writing some letters, you can count on that.

And It's a crock how you're getting treated in GD - Though I'm not all the way through that thread yet.

Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:45:53 AM EST
????
I've been carrying since I started going there, never heard anything about this. Time to write a letter and find a new theater to go too.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:00:44 AM EST
The main problem with this (if its true), is that Vestar is one of the states largest comercial developers. They have built and own around half of the retail sites in PHX alone. And because of that, i totaly agree that this is most likely BS. Id contact Vestar by phone and see if they do have a policy like this before you write the letters. Then, if Vestar says no they dont, then you can put that tasty bit of info in the letters to AMC managment.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:06:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:24:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 7:24:49 AM EST by ASUsax]

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:


what they aren't understanding in GD is that the policy applies to CCW too...



They aren't understanding much of anything right now in GD.

BTW, I have now read that whole 9 (as of now) page thread, and all I can say is...

Some people are f'ing idiots.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:31:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By ASUsax:

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:


what they aren't understanding in GD is that the policy applies to CCW too...



They aren't understanding much of anything right now in GD.

BTW, I have now read that whole 9 (as of now) page thread, and all I can say is...

Some people are f'ing idiots.



I'm going less and less to GD- the quality of arfcommers has gone down since the good 'ol days.

Thank you-- it'll be sent shortly.

Mike
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:44:00 AM EST
I've been in contact w/ Vestar and gotten thier answer. The guys from AMC weren't in, I'll try in a bit. I'll post the full outcome after speaking to AMC.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:55:33 AM EST
Do you guys know what other properties they manage? I've never heard of that company before.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 8:04:03 AM EST
It's clear that many of the morons posting in the other thread have submitted to the notion that open carry is "weird".

BAAAAAAAHHHH!
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:03:24 AM EST
Vestar is not the property management company, they are the owners. I believe they are the second largest commercial developer in AZ next to Westcor. They own the Pavilians and Desert Ridge Marketplace and many other shopping centers.

Your complaints will probably not get to the owners. You’ll get a politically correct response from their reps.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:06:10 AM EST
As I posted in teh general forum:


Well, I finally made it to the 9th page and read every message. Simply amazing that folks would denigrate someone for doing something legal, something he's done for 3 years. There was no argument, he complied with management's request. His beef is that there was no sign and an unevenly enforced "policy".

Now, if AMC's policy is NOT no guns, and they are in control of their premises, how can they claim Vestar as the bad guys unless they want to deflect culpability and hide behind laws and such? I am no lawyer, but unless there is an EXPLICIT prohibition in the lease agreement they signed, then AMC can do whatever they want. If there IS a prohibition in the agreement, then it needs to be evenly enforced...everywhere on that property. So, job one is to see whose policy it really is then act from there.

Then there's this:



R, I'm conflicted by your story. I support the RKBA and I carry concealed almost everywhere I go. In principal, I support your position. However, I'm not so sure I like how you allowed things to go down in practice. Civil rights arguments aside, you probably did more harm than good to our cause.

This is one of those "discretion is the better part of valor" situations. You need to carefully consider the fallout from your actions: is this situation more likely to make the average person see open carry as normal, or is it more likely to turn them off ? I'd be willing to bet that most of the sheeple here in AZ don't even know open carry is legal; a few more incidents like this could conceivably trigger a push in the legislature to ban open carry ("with CCW, why do they need open carry" etc.). Remember we live in a Representative Republic and, as the demographics of AZ change, we will be increasingly vulnerable.

Also, to some extent you are spoiling things for the rest of us. Those of us who carry concealed can often do so in places that, at least nominally, prohibit carry but don't post the fact with signs... a kind of "don't ask, don't tell" situation. Pushing open carry in such places will probably do nothing for our rights, but WILL force more property owners to post "no weapons" signs, thus formally closing those venues to us.

Lastly, if you are ever found to be carrying at this same theatre location, even concealed, you can no longer plead ignorance of their "no weapons" policy.



Let's replace the general "open carry", "gun owner" and such with "person of color/negro/African American" to see about a similar situation some 50 years ago.

"You shouldn't ride in the front of the bus, Rosa...you're just hurting our cause...people aren't used to seeing Negroes in the front of the bus. Why can't you just sit in the back or not take the bus.?"

Do NOT try and use the argument that these situations are not the same..they are exactly the same. The ability to exercise a right is based on folks actually exercising that right.

How would civil rights have gone had them "uppity Negroes" decided to be "covert" about their sitting in the bus. Should they have used theater makeup and CCW'd by making themselves look white THEN sitting at the Woolworth's counter for lunch? I mean, nobody would have known they were black...so no harm, no foul.

But the essence of it is they wanted to be treated, oh I dunno, like human-fucking-beings. Just like gun owners.


With a few more incidents like this, why do we need open carry if we have CCW?"


Say what? If nobody openly carries, then it doesn't matter if there are laws allowing it, so they can decide it's no longer necessary anyway. That argument makes no sense.


Sinistral: You openly carried, which is your right, and you were asked not to, which was the theatre's right. No harm no foul. If I owned a private business and 2 people openly carried into my establishment, id ask them to leave/disarm: how the hell do I know they are stable enough to safely bring firearms openly into my place? Its not the firearms im against, its the people behind the trigger...I dont see what the problem is? Its an establishment for the public...meaning your catering to everyone, by making sure everyone is comfortable and satsified with the experience. Your right, you are the minority in this situation...but irrationally you think you need to make a statement in that sense...you didn't need to.


As a private business person, I wholly support your right to exclude anyone from your business. However, your statement reminds me of a story: Wife and I were at a local gun store one evening. Scruffy lookin' fella with long hair is wandering the aisles, looking at ammo, holsters and such. Ohhhh...even guns. Looks like someone in your description above...I mean, how can I be sure he's stable? Wife says "wow....they'll let anyone in here..." kind of jokingly, but I could see a little apprehension (this was in 1995 or so).

I asked my wife "do you know who that is?"
"No."
"Alice Cooper"

So, you can't judge a book by its cover. The above statement by the writer shows a great deal of the elitism we see from Feinstein, etc. "It's ok for me to have a gun in my store, because I know I am stable. However, I don't want 'regular people' to have them." Again, your store, your rules and I've no problem with your right to exclude them from entering. However, if they were carrying concealed, just how would you know, and then deal, with this situation? Does having a tshirt over their gun remove any instability they might have, making them suddenly more trustworthy?

Middle Eastern men carrying openly, in the absence of any other "information" won't cause me to be suspicious. Neither would armed bikers, armed Mexicans or armed anyone else deciding to carry openly absent other circumstances. Hell, for all I know, they could be carrying concealed, whether legally or not, and I wouldn't know the difference. It's what people DO, not how they're dressed, that should be of concern. Absent other actions, merely wearing a gun isn't a crime or issue.

TimW
Phoenix
Practical Tactical, LLC
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:07:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZERIC:
Vestar is not the property management company, they are the owners. I believe they are the second largest commercial developer in AZ next to Westcor. They own the Pavilians and Desert Ridge Marketplace and many other shopping centers.

Your complaints will probably not get to the owners. You’ll get a politically correct response from their reps.



Interesting...I've a friend who has open carried at Desert Ridge w/o incident.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:38:42 AM EST
I didnt want to read the whole GD thread so I came here. Really sucks that they kicked you out. My local theater is owned by a family friend and sometimes business associate. He is a former cop, and owns the theater along with his wife and sister-in-law. They have no written prohibition against firearms, and knowing Joe, as long as you have a permit and don't do anything stupid, he really couldn't care less about CC in the theater.

See, at least sometimes us WA guys have more gun rights
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:46:31 AM EST
I won't even bother reading the thread in the GD. After the first couple of fucking idiots opened their mouths I nearly kicked the monitor off my desk.

Good on you guys for excercising your RKBA.


Take care.

Sly
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 10:12:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 10:14:00 AM EST by WolverineAtWork]
Posted here so you could see the resolution without wading through the verbal diarrhea in the GD..

Ok guys and gals, here's a copy of the letter sent to AMC for clarification.

August 13, 2004
Kevin Connor
Lead Legal Council
AMC Entertainment Inc.
920 Main St.
Kansas City, MO 64105

Dear Mr. Connor,

I was referred to you after speaking with Jim Barvee (sp) head of security regarding a corporate policy question raised by events at a local AMC theater last night. The theater in question is the AMC Mesa Grand 24 theater located at 1645 S. Stapley Dr. Mesa, AZ 85204.

Several friends and I attended a midnight showing of a new release at this theater. We purchased tickets online and retrieved them via the kiosk in the lobby. We then proceeded into the theater after purchasing some concessions and took our seats.

Two of the gentlemen with me were carrying firearms in holsters on their belt. Both firearms were plainly visible. As you may be aware, Arizona is a right to carry state in which a citizen may carry a firearm openly without restriction except into federal buildings, schools, locations which serve alcohol and private property posted as no carry zones. This AMC theater location has no apparent posting prohibiting firearm possession on the premises.

Approximately 45-60 minutes into the movie, theater staff accompanied by Mesa City Police, who were there rendering off duty security services as is customary, requested that the individuals carrying firearms please leave the premises due to a property management policy prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property. The gentlemen politely honored the request and left the premises.

I have since spoken with the property manager and have been told that not only do they not have a policy prohibiting the possession of firearms on their property, but that the issue was moot as the property in question is in fact owned by AMC Entertainment.

And so, I am seeking clarification regarding AMC Entertainments corporate policies regarding firearms possession in AMC owned and operated theaters. Does AMC Entertainment have a corporate policy prohibiting the possession of firearms in theaters where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by law?

The gentlemen in question are prominent members of the firearms manufacturing community and strong Second Amendment advocates, as am I. We would like to provide those of similar mind and interest with pertinent information on avoiding similar issues in the future by having the proper information available such that we may comply with all laws and policies regarding firearms possession on AMC owned property.

Your time and effort in this matter is greatly appreciated. As responsible firearms owners we as a community appreciate companies which support the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. As a community we try and patronize those establishments honoring these rights and protest those who do not by taking our business elsewhere. Your response will aid that process.
Sincerely,

Matt xxxxxx
Matt.xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 10:13:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 10:15:33 AM EST by WolverineAtWork]
Posted here so you could see the resolution without wading through the verbal diarrhea in the GD..
Edit: I also highlighted just the differences from the first letter for easier reading.


And here's the one that just went out to the President of Customer Service at AMC Entertainment

August 13, 2004

Alice Rogers

President Customer Service

AMC Entertainment Inc.

920 Main St.

Kansas City, MO 64105

Dear Ms. Rogers,

I was referred to you after speaking with Jim Barvee (sp) head of security regarding a customer service issue raised by events at a local AMC theater last night. The theater in question is the AMC Mesa Grand 24 theater located at 1645 S. Stapley Dr. Mesa, AZ 85204.

Several friends and I attended a midnight showing of a new release at this theater. We purchased tickets online and retrieved them via the kiosk in the lobby. We then proceeded into the theater after purchasing some concessions and took our seats.

Two of the gentlemen with me were carrying firearms in holsters on their belt. Both firearms were plainly visible. As you may be aware, Arizona is a right to carry state in which a citizen may carry a firearm openly without restriction except into federal buildings, schools, locations which serve alcohol and private property posted as no carry zones. This AMC theater location has no apparent posting prohibiting firearm possession on the premises.

Approximately 45-60 minutes into the movie, theater staff accompanied by Mesa City Police, who were there rendering off duty security services as is customary, requested that the individuals carrying firearms please leave the premises due to a property management policy prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property. The gentlemen politely honored the request and left the premises.

I have since spoken with the property manager and have been told that not only do they not have a policy prohibiting the possession of firearms on their property, but that the issue was moot as the property in question is in fact owned by AMC Entertainment.

I have sent a similar letter to Kevin Connor, Lead Council, outlining the events and seeking clarification on AMC policy regarding firearms possession on AMC owned property. This was done so that we might to provide those of similar mind and interest with information necessary to avoiding similar issues in the future.

In an effort to prevent further customer service problems over this issue, I would like to bring the matter to your attention. The gentlemen in question are prominent members of the firearms manufacturing community and strong advocates of the individual’s right to bear arms, as am I. As such we have an active voice in the community regarding the treatment received at local establishments, including those national companies such as AMC Entertainment.

The details of the encounter are as follows. The gentlemen in question, as well as numerous other acquaintances of like mind and interests, have routinely enjoyed the excellent services of this theater while openly carrying firearms in the past without incident.

On this particular occasion however, a fellow patron brought the issue to the attention of the theater management at which time, they requested that the armed gentlemen leave the premises or, place their firearms in their vehicle and return to the movie.

Due to the number of people at the show, our group was unable to sit together and the individual who drove was not aware of the current situation. Flabbergasted at the request which was apparently in violation of state law, the gentlemen left the premises under the auspices that they would not be able to contact anyone within the theater to arrange for a suitable vehicle in which to store their firearms, or for a ride home. As a result, the two men walked, at 1 o’clock in the morning, to their offices fortunately, only two miles away.

To their credit, the theater staff and management did attempt to accommodate the men by refunding their tickets to the movie as well as offering an additional free pass to each for their troubles. Due to the aggravating circumstances at the time, each declined the free passes.

I bring this matter to your attention so that policies and procedures may be established by AMC Entertainment Inc. to prevent similar difficulty in the future.

I believe that the first order of business is education of theater staff regarding the firearms policies of AMC and their local laws. Knowledge of each could have halted this issue at its inception.

Secondly, I believe that there is a need for training in dealing with issues of this nature. It was clearly evident that the manager on duty had never encountered this problem before and as a result was ill-equipped to handle it. In developing training strategies, I suggest that thought be given on dealing with customers carrying weapons where they are not permitted, as well as dealing with customers voicing concerns regarding those they observe legally carrying firearms. This will provide an invaluable opportunity to inform these individuals of their right to carry arms in accordance with local laws and AMC policies.

As a community of firearms owners and advocates of the Second Amendment, we seek constructive opportunities to inform and educate people regarding their rights and responsibilities of firearm ownership. Your assistance in the customer service aspect of this endeavor as it applies to AMC will be a tremendous help in insuring that future situations of this nature are handled correctly and courteously by all involved.

If you would like further information or suggestions, please do not hesitate to contact me.


Sincerely,



Matt xxxxxx

Matt.xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 10:21:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 10:21:35 AM EST by ASUsax]

Originally Posted By WolverineAtWork:Posted here so you could see the resolution without wading through the
verbal diarrhea in the GD..




It does kinda stink, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 10:26:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By ASUsax:

Originally Posted By WolverineAtWork:Posted here so you could see the resolution without wading through the
verbal diarrhea in the GD..




It does kinda stink, doesn't it?



Yep, but lately it seems that there's very few topics that don't start these juvenile pissing matches, so I don't know that this one is special. It's just never bugged me before cuz I wasn't involved.

Link Posted: 8/13/2004 10:59:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 11:03:51 AM EST by innocent_bystander]
Russ,

You have told me about problems in the past that you have had in a (that?) theater.

I have to ask why you insist on open carry there? I think the last time you had problems there was before you were 21 and had your CCW permit.

You know I don't like open carry because it causes problems like you have encountered. You have your CCW.....use it. What they can't see can't hurt them.

The fact that you are just exercising your rights is not a valid argument because you are doing so on private property. Do not try to fight the fact that an individual has the right to make rules on property they own. If you don't like their rules, don't play on their property.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:58:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:06:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 12:07:15 PM EST by mindtrix]

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
The previous incident involved some idiot kids angry about us carrying our "real guns" in there when they weren't allowed carry their wooden light sabers in there....they made some smart ass comments to us, and I made some in return. That was about 2 years ago....no problems with the staff or police there




You mean I can't open carry my light saber there anymore?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:16:43 PM EST
My being two feet taller than someone usually doesn't cost them business or give them the feeling that they are going to lose business because of my height.

You are scaring the sheeple by open carry. They feel that scared sheeple won't come back to their theater. They exercise their right as owner or representative of owner of private property to ask you to remove your firearm. That they tried to pass blame was stupid but the fact is they didn't want you there with a firearm in view. Respect their rights as property owners.

If this happened on public property I would support you.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:27:37 PM EST
I-B
as I read it he does support their right to make those policies. He just wants them to own up to it and suffer the consequences. Am I right SR?

Chris
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:57:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By WolverineAtWork:

Originally Posted By ASUsax:

Originally Posted By WolverineAtWork:Posted here so you could see the resolution without wading through the
verbal diarrhea in the GD..




It does kinda stink, doesn't it?



Yep, but lately it seems that there's very few topics that don't start these juvenile pissing matches, so I don't know that this one is special. It's just never bugged me before cuz I wasn't involved.




Well, School starts again soon... maybe some of the problem will have to go back. But I'm afraid we might have a liberal infestation.

SR - Good luck with everything. I'm off to be disarmed in the Peoples Republik of Illinios, but I'll be writing my letters upon my return.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:29:04 PM EST

Respect their rights as property owners.


Ummm..........He did.......he left w/o incident.

IF their policy was clearly posted this would have been avoided.

NOW the task is finding out what the REAL policy is. IF they decide to dissallow carry on their property we can respect that, but rest assured I myself will no longer patronize that business and they WILL hear about it.

As far as open carry goes it needs to be done and done often, as someone once stated it "inoculates the public with a dose of freedom". Your hoplophobes will always get nervy regardless, but others may just get used to seeing a firearm in public.

RKBA is fight that has been going on for a long time, we need strong advocates on our side for the battles to come. Sadly it seems some that post here are ashamed to openly carry a firearm at times...........that is sad.

Biggame223

Out

Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:37:53 PM EST
I'm sending a letter.

While a CCW permit holder, I too encourage open carry for the same reasons.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 1:47:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 1:48:24 PM EST by SinistralRifleman]
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:49:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
I did respect their rights as property owners and left without incident after they gave me a refund.

If they had signs posted, it would not have been an issue. If they had told me upon entering the theatre it would not have been an issue.

I also have the right as a consumer to choose not to pay for their services. I also have the right to tell all my friends not to go there either. Which is what I am doing here.

The question I ask you is would you still spend your money at AMC theatres in light of their policy?





I think you did exactly the right thing AND have exactly the right attitude about the whole affair.

To have you escorted out of the theater mid-way through the show is deplorable. Not too likely that AMC will see any more of my money in the future.

Now to send those emails...
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:52:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 2:52:36 PM EST by MudBug]

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
Well, School starts again soon... maybe some of the problem will have to go back. But I'm afraid we might have a liberal infestation.



It's more like a "Sportsman" infestation. Like that group of guys that think 2A is about being able to hunt pheasant or shoot at spinning disks.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 3:07:38 PM EST
Man!
I admire all of you guys for having the right to open carry!I wish I was among you guys to support it.Do you guys ever come accross business's that have sign's that say "We support open carry"?I wish I could open carry to the AMC out here in Hollywood.I think the whole city would evacuate!
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 3:40:25 PM EST
SR,
I support what you did. While I usually dont open carry any more, I refuse to give my money to a business that wont let me carry in it open or concealed. I also agree with your idea that the more people see "normal" people carrying, the more they relize its normal to carry. I had a family member visiting from Ca. She saw a guy walking down the street open carrying. She said "OMG what is that guy doing". I said excersizing his rights. I explained that it is not uncommon to see that in AZ, since we are still a free state. She said "wow, you would never see that in CA."
I also cant believe the reaction you got in GD. It made me sick to read some of the posts there. I felt like I was trolling at DU sometimes. Expecially the guy who gave you crap for dressing in BDU's and training with your rifle. Has he never heard that able body man between the age of 18 and 45 is a citizen soilder. Keep up the good work.
Milhouse......the original Milhouse
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:03:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Milhouse:
SR,
I support what you did. While I usually dont open carry any more, I refuse to give my money to a business that wont let me carry in it open or concealed. I also agree with your idea that the more people see "normal" people carrying, the more they relize its normal to carry. I had a family member visiting from Ca. She saw a guy walking down the street open carrying. She said "OMG what is that guy doing". I said excersizing his rights. I explained that it is not uncommon to see that in AZ, since we are still a free state. She said "wow, you would never see that in CA."
I also cant believe the reaction you got in GD. It made me sick to read some of the posts there. I felt like I was trolling at DU sometimes. Expecially the guy who gave you crap for dressing in BDU's and training with your rifle. Has he never heard that able body man between the age of 18 and 45 is a citizen soilder. Keep up the good work.
Milhouse......the original Milhouse





NOTHING in GD surprises me anymore. What a bunch of hypocritical nancy boys. You did REAL GOOD SR! I support you 100%. Screw AMC.
AB
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:07:29 PM EST
Like it or not scaring sheeple does not help us. These sheeple vote.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:19:19 PM EST
It's funny how we can be so quick (myself included) to boycott business's that don't allow open or ccw, but just think of how many gun shops we give our business to that don't allow us to enter armed.
George
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:13:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By geocon:
It's funny how we can be so quick (myself included) to boycott business's that don't allow open or ccw, but just think of how many gun shops we give our business to that don't allow us to enter armed.
George



I like the Dillon store's way to handle the safety at gun shops issue--

From the sign on the door: "All guns must be cased with actions open or remain holstered at all times."

Mike
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 6:46:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 6:48:11 PM EST by albob]

Originally Posted By geocon:
It's funny how we can be so quick (myself included) to boycott business's that don't allow open or ccw, but just think of how many gun shops we give our business to that don't allow us to enter armed.
George



At least you KNOW before going IN.
AB



edited to add smilie.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 7:59:35 PM EST
I carry with an IWB holster with a CCW permit, I still consider it for the most part "open carry" because anyone knows what it is.
But I also know there are times I untuck my shirt when I have to enter an establishment that might cause "unwanted attention" from the patrons or management.
For example I always carry when I take my 48 Buick out of the garage, but I also sometimes end up at a place during that little cruise that I dont want everyone to know I have a firearm.



Link Posted: 8/13/2004 8:25:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Like it or not scaring sheeple does not help us. These sheeple vote.



And I vote too.

This is how I define sheeple:
Individuals who rely on emotion instead of fact. Individuals who, dispite "the law", insist that "it should be this way just because". Individuals who take what is said as gospile, instead of going out and finding out the facts them self. Individuals who ignore reality and to force upone others some other "reality" (aka PC). Individuals who think that wishfull thinking is good enough. Idividuals who, dispite best intentions, create a bigger problem......


Their ignorance should not trample the rights of the individual.

(And yes, the GD was getting .... mucky..... 14 pages.......last I looked....)

From what I read, the entire situation was handled correctly. The theater (whom ever) has not made their policy CLEAR. Period. If it were clear, as said, the situation would not have happened. THAT is what the "issue" is, a vauge policy that resulted in the situation.

Everyone else is making it a "open carry" issue. As with opinions and assholes, everyone has one....
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 8:40:22 PM EST
damn man, that sucks...

I wanted to see A v P tonite however I was tied at dinner with Rob Pincus from Vahalla....
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