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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/20/2012 2:28:08 PM EST
I kinda already know the answer I think. Sent a .22lr AR barrel to get cut/threaded/re-crowned. This came back. It was only $30 for the whole operation. Threads are good, a little rough, but right length and all that. Im just worried about the crown. Ran a few rounds (25) through it, and carbon build up was on one side of the end of the barrel.

Emailed the guy and told him I think its a bad crowning job. Am I in the right to ask they re-do it and put some time into making a nice one?

You can tell from the pictures, one half of the cut is much deeper than the other half of the cut...







Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:33:32 PM EST
Looks like a crap job to me. Not only is it not even, it's rougher n' hell. I've done a shit pot of crowns over the years......none of mine looks remotely like that!

Personally, I wouldn't let him touch it again. I'd take it somewhere else and have it done right.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:38:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 2:39:39 PM EST by Mad-Machinist]
I wouldn't call it bad........hideous is the word that comes to mind........if you are near Macon.......and it can stand having the chamfer of the crown cut off as far as over all length of the barrel........swing by the shop and I'll redo it fer ya......no charge.......if you can stand loosing the thread......I'll just whack it off and start over.....
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:39:29 PM EST
Who did it so we know?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:46:59 PM EST
Yeah, thats bad! Thread job was done with a die and is most likely not anywhere near concentric to the bore.

Crown was done with a grinding ball. It looks poor enough that accuracy would be affected.

Who did it? That is worth sharing top save others the headache.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:54:58 PM EST
The $30 price tag would have been a 'red flag' to me
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 3:44:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 3:44:50 PM EST by s30series]
Don't want to say anything yet until I hear back from the place, but I'll tell you it is NOT local. It's in N. Carolina. Heard about them from another forum and "recommended" them.

Not sure how the threads were cut, but they were very rough and the suppressor wouldn't screw on without lots of force. I took a old thread protector, lathered the threads up with valve grinding compound, and screwed the adapter on and off and that cleaned them up enough where the suppressor goes on fine.

Like I said, I ran 25rnds through the weapon quickly, and no baffle strikes. Visually it looks like it lines up fine, but the more I stare at it, the more it looks off like the shoulder isnt flat....its probbaly this thread, eyes, and my mind that are playing with me though.

Sent a PM BTW
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 4:10:59 PM EST
If you want to have one done locally, I can vouch for Mad-machinist, top notch work and stand up guy
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 4:15:32 PM EST
A close up shot with a decent digital camera makes imperfections look worse than they are but I think that still looks like hell.
My best guess is that the lathe cutting tool was not carbide and it was not sharp. It looks like it was chattering line hell.
Is that a stainless barrel. Stainless is difficult to cut with a dull tool.

I would start over if I had the barrel length.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 4:24:45 PM EST
Definitely room for improvement-
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:23:51 PM EST
looks unfinished
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:05:24 AM EST
I'm not a gunsmith. But as a machinist I wouldn't show that to anyone, let alone send it to a customer......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:34:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:50:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By georgia357:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.



That's not exactly how machining works guys. If this thing wasn't considered finished, it would have still been in the lathe.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:05:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:08:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 4:09:23 AM EST by USSA-1]
Bad...doesn't begin to describe it. I would call the shop, demand your money back and ask for them to replace your barrel.

Then...I would find the guy that recommended that place....and kick him square in the sack.

USSA-1
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:22:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 4:26:30 AM EST by Mad-Machinist]
Originally Posted By s30series:
Don't want to say anything yet until I hear back from the place, but I'll tell you it is NOT local. It's in N. Carolina. Heard about them from another forum and "recommended" them.

Not sure how the threads were cut, but they were very rough and the suppressor wouldn't screw on without lots of force. I took a old thread protector, lathered the threads up with valve grinding compound, and screwed the adapter on and off and that cleaned them up enough where the suppressor goes on fine.

Like I said, I ran 25rnds through the weapon quickly, and no baffle strikes. Visually it looks like it lines up fine, but the more I stare at it, the more it looks off like the shoulder isnt flat....its probbaly this thread, eyes, and my mind that are playing with me though.

Sent a PM BTW


If someone would ship that kind of work the shoulder probably ISN'T flat.......but once it is set up in the lathe for a slight trip and recrown.....the shoulder is a very simple thing to clean up....I might even try and pick up the threads and run a threading tool thorugh them above centerline as a burnishing tool to deburr them a little......and then drop below centerline to make a VERY slight cleanup cut.........

Originally Posted By WGTactical:
Originally Posted By georgia357:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.



That's not exactly how machining works guys. If this thing wasn't considered finished, it would have still been in the lathe.


Absoloutly correct......it is a complete pain in the ass to take a piece that is being threaded in and out of the lathe.................I usually charge a premium to even attempt it....
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:23:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 4:25:36 AM EST by jmarkma]
Originally Posted By georgia357:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.



Doubtful, once you start machining something you don't just pull it out of the lathe and start on something else, you leave it in the chuck till it's done. Hell the first threads I ever cut looked better than that.

ETA: Like someone else said it looks like it was threaded with a die and crowned by hand, that or a terribly worn out cutter was used removing too much material each pass. There's no may I'd put my suppressor on that and shoot the gun.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:26:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By WGTactical:
The $30 price tag would have been a 'red flag' to me

Cheaper only costs less once.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:28:34 AM EST


.
Hell the first threads I ever cut looked better than that.



I was thinking if I ever tried to thread something (and I'm not a machinist), they would probably look like that.

insert... son i am dissapoint.jpg
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:32:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 4:33:56 AM EST by jmarkma]
Originally Posted By GAhunter95:


.
Hell the first threads I ever cut looked better than that.



I was thinking if I ever tried to thread something (and I'm not a machinist), they would probably look like that.

insert... son i am dissapoint.jpg


Perhaps if you were on your own but if you had a experienced machinist helping teach you (not me I'm a noob), I guarantee they'ed look better than that. It's not that difficult you just have to be methodical and take your time.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 7:30:35 AM EST
i've done better with a dremel.



clown
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 9:56:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By WGTactical:
Originally Posted By georgia357:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.



That's not exactly how machining works guys. If this thing wasn't considered finished, it would have still been in the lathe.


I guess you can tell I'm not a machinist then but I have learned a long time ago that when it comes to people/work anything can happen.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 10:08:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By thegooch:

Originally Posted By WGTactical:
The $30 price tag would have been a 'red flag' to me

Cheaper only costs less once.


I have some $35 threaded barrels that shoot/look pretty good. I guess there is a threshold you cross there at $32.50.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:20:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By WGTactical:
Originally Posted By georgia357:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.



That's not exactly how machining works guys. If this thing wasn't considered finished, it would have still been in the lathe.


That was sarcasm about taking it before it was done.
I've "picked up" a thread or 2 in my couple of months as a machinist. In fact, where I work at, if you cant pick up threads, Both left and right hand, your probably not gonna stay around too long. It's a test we put any "Lathe operators" through during their 90 day evaluation.

To the OP, Any chance of telling us who did this? I know people like to give the company a chance to fix it. But If it is something that I my life may depend on, I prefer using a company that I know will do it right the first time.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:22:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 4:23:32 PM EST by Mad-Machinist]
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
Originally Posted By WGTactical:
Originally Posted By georgia357:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
......Maybe someone grabbed it before he was done.


Kinda what I was thinking, shipped back before it was supposed to.



That's not exactly how machining works guys. If this thing wasn't considered finished, it would have still been in the lathe.


That was sarcasm about taking it before it was done.
I've "picked up" a thread or 2 in my couple of months as a machinist. In fact, where I work at, if you cant pick up threads, Both left and right hand, your probably not gonna stay around too long. It's a test we put any "Lathe operators" through during their 90 day evaluation.

To the OP, Any chance of telling us who did this? I know people like to give the company a chance to fix it. But If it is something that I my life may depend on, I prefer using a company that I know will do it right the first time.


Picking up a thread is a necessary skill .....especially for a job shop machinist.........been working professionally as a machinist for 22 years.....and while I can do it ....dosen't alter the fact that it is a royal pain in the ass to HAVE to do it..........

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:03:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By BookHound:
Originally Posted By WGTactical:
The $30 price tag would have been a 'red flag' to me


Yeah, you would think.


Not true , In the wayback I had a guy on another board thread 3 guns a Rommy .22 trainer shortened barrel and threaded with new front sight, 10-22 with relocated sight and threads, Buckmark and he moved back the rail and relocated the front sight post and an Uzi barrel for about $150 and shipped it all back to me . That said it at least should have been polished
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:14:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 5:19:53 PM EST by kylestyle]
Not to call into question our HTF's machining knowledge but this reminded me of a thread that popped up in the tech forum way back. This guy was concerned that his new DD barrel had a bad crown job. Basically there was a large group of people saying it was a bad job blah blah blah, questioning DD's machining. Bigbore came in, said it was fine. After back and forth bullshit posts from self proclaimed machinists the user sent him the barrel. Bigbore ended up shooting sub MOA, posting pictures of the results afterwards.

So what I would recommend is sending those pictures to bigbore from adco and describe any issue you've had. He will give you a definitive yes or no. That guy probably fixes more barrels than
anyone in the industry.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:01:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By p0p0k0pf:
Definitely room for improvement-

Like you could do better?


;)
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:10:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 8:11:47 PM EST by jcoffman55]
I don't think that crown job was done on a lathe. It looks to me like it was done with a hand held drill with a cone shaped stone in it. I'd bet money that's what they did with that one. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the "gunsmith" outsources his threading to some machine shop and then does the crowns himself because he doesn't have a lathe. I've seen work like that before and this turned out to be the case, some dude that decided one day to be a gunsmith with no equipment.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:17:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:19:44 AM EST by 762bodydropper]
Originally Posted By Mad-Machinist:
Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:


That was sarcasm about taking it before it was done.
I've "picked up" a thread or 2 in my couple of months as a machinist. In fact, where I work at, if you cant pick up threads, Both left and right hand, your probably not gonna stay around too long. It's a test we put any "Lathe operators" through during their 90 day evaluation.

To the OP, Any chance of telling us who did this? I know people like to give the company a chance to fix it. But If it is something that I my life may depend on, I prefer using a company that I know will do it right the first time.


Picking up a thread is a necessary skill .....especially for a job shop machinist.........been working professionally as a machinist for 22 years.....and while I can do it ....dosen't alter the fact that it is a royal pain in the ass to HAVE to do it..........


We have been looking for 3 machinists for about a year and a half now. We have had several "machinists" as called by other companies come in. Most of them are hole drillers, someone sets the machine up, and they do one operation, then someone comes out and sets the machine up again. And I am talking about on manual mills not cnc. And they think they are worth 18-22 dollars an hour to do that. I work for a company that makes custom lifts, sometimes we are a job shop, sometimes we are a production shop. Just depends on how many the customer orders. If you know any machinists interested in a job, especially a decent lathe operator, let me know. We need 1-2 solid lathe guys. We're on the west side just outside douglasville.

As for the crown job, most of us are probably looking at the actual thread and finish on the end of the barrel, which may have absolutely no effect on the accuracy of the rifle. If your gonna put something over the threads, which you probably are then that stuff isn't going to matter. Heres a video where Larry Potterfield does it with a drill and a brass screw.
http://youtu.be/OorpZlG28fI

If your worried about the finish, then let the company know. If not go shoot it, it may preform great. But just because it isn't pretty, doesn't mean it wont get the job done.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:03:30 AM EST
This is off a new Remmy 700 MLR. $1100 gun then, now $1800, worth about $600-800 for the stock and action.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:18:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 5:24:13 AM EST by Mad-Machinist]
Looking at the pictures........while yes the finish does suck......what concerns me is the crown cut isn't concentric.........when I set up on a bore to crown it.....Indicate the OD of the barrel to less than .0005 runout and face......then mount a center finder in a drill chuck and use it to indicate the actual bore......to less than .0002 runout.....then I cut a 45 degree recesses crown.........and I try to keep the 45 degree area about .015 wide. I have found diring the last 20+ years of doing metal work for the public....appearance DOES count.....you won't stay in business long turning out work that looks like shit weather it works or not. Ive bored antique engine blocks that had slight pitting below the area of ring travel that wouldn't hurt shit because the customer had dug the blok out of a field where it had laid for 60 years............BUt the customer lost their mind because the "cylinder was pitted", so now...on every antique engine I build I sleeve every cylinder in the block and bore it back standard and then deck it........

The barrel may run....but it dosen't come close to approaching my standards and I would be embarrassed to hand something that looked like that to a customer.

762bodydropper.....I'd come up and run a lathe for ya but I a can't be fired from my shop....slaves are sold (the pleasures of owning your own business).........if you are hurtin for a good all round general manual machinist......send me some contact info.....I may know a few I'd recommend.....
Rudy
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:37:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mad-Machinist:
Looking at the pictures........while yes the finish does suck......what concerns me is the crown cut isn't concentric.........when I set up on a bore to crown it.....Indicate the OD of the barrel to less than .0005 runout and face......then mount a center finder in a drill chuck and use it to indicate the actual bore......to less than .0002 runout.....then I cut a 45 degree recesses crown.........and I try to keep the 45 degree area about .015 wide. I have found diring the last 20+ years of doing metal work for the public....appearance DOES count.....you won't stay in business long turning out work that looks like shit weather it works or not. Ive bored antique engine blocks that had slight pitting below the area of ring travel that wouldn't hurt shit because the customer had dug the blok out of a field where it had laid for 60 years............BUt the customer lost their mind because the "cylinder was pitted", so now...on every antique engine I build I sleeve every cylinder in the block and bore it back standard and then deck it........

The barrel may run....but it dosen't come close to approaching my standards and I would be embarrassed to hand something that looked like that to a customer.

762bodydropper.....I'd come up and run a lathe for ya but I a can't be fired from my shop....slaves are sold (the pleasures of owning your own business).........if you are hurtin for a good all round general manual machinist......send me some contact info.....I may know a few I'd recommend.....
Rudy


And that is the defining factor in being a real machinist. Its just as much about handing someone something that puts that gleam in their eye, as it is handing them something that meets the specs they wanted.

Mad-machinist, I'll send you a PM. Wheres your shop at? Incase, I decide to look for a new job in the future. because if we don't get some machinists in the pretty near future, it's gonna cause us to lose some of the ones we have, due to the push from the top. And if we lose too many more, we arent going to be able to stay open.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:42:33 AM EST
Replyed to PM..Forgot to include that I'm in Macon off I-475
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:20:20 PM EST
Didnt get the pm reply.....
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