Not a speeding ticket or a red light/ stop sign ticket.

I got a ticket today for 28-751.1, "The driver of a vehicle intending to turn shall do so as follows:

1. Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway."

Basically I turned right onto a 3 lane road (speedway blvd in Tucson for those familiar) and had to make a left at the next light (about 400-500 ft away). So I basically turned and merged right across to the left turn lane since the road was clear. A motor cop got behind me and pulled me over after we had turned left.

The ticket is $212, someone told me traffic school is $198, so both those options I'm out $200, I'm wondering if anyone has gone to court for a non-speeding violation and succeeded. Or any info about going to fight a ticket in general.

If I have an ok chance I might do it, but if I'm basically screwed I'm not going to take a day off work to waste my time. I have been told by an officer I trust that the motor cops "know what they're doing" since their primary purpose is to write as many traffic tickets as they can. I guess that means I have little chance of getting it dismissed on a technicality.

ETA: has anyone hired a traffic lawyer for something like this? I'd rather pay an attorney the $200 to get a ticket dismissed than pay the city. Petty I know, but I pay enough money to the government as it is.

UPDATE 8/10:
Tomorrow is the day. I will be attempting to fight the ticket, I hope the judge is having a good day tomorrow.

Final Update 8/11:

I fought the law and I won. The ticketing officer did not enter any notes on the stop into the system so the state could not present a case. Citation dismissed.

Wow that sounds like a really stupid ticket, almost as stupid as the one I just got.



I don't know about fighting it but I know about traffic school, if you want the info let me know. Its about 200 bucks and you can do it all from your living room. You don't need to study or anything you just click through the screens and answer some common sense questions and you are done.

The last time I got a ticket and did traffic school you had to spend a day in a physical classroom and it cost $100 or so. It was also 7 years ago. If I have a good chance of dismissal I'd rather fight this ticket and save traffic school for a speeding violation. I'd just pay it outright (I think 7 hours of my day is worth more than $12) but I don't want to risk my insurance rates going up, they're nice and low at the moment.

Going to Traffic School in person only exists still because there is old people out there who don't know how to use the internet. The one I did online was so relaxed you had to press the "next"button though and spend a mandatory amount of time at each page. I kept forgetting about it so it took me 3 days of randomly clicking the "next"button whenever I noticed the timer had expired. I told my wife about it too so she was clicking it when she noticed it had run out.



I hate bogus victimless crime traffic tickets.



Would you believe that was the first traffic ticket I have ever gotten, ever.... And it was some fucking stupid red light camera, if those didn't exist I may have never gotten a ticket.

I'm a cop and I'd fight the ticket if I got it. Court is your chance to tell the judge your side of the story... the judge then decides what to do with it. If the cop doesn't show up for some reason (they're supposed to and get paid to, so they probably will) then it will likely just go away. Now, how you articulate the situation is very important... did you movement effect the other traffic in any way? was it a green light for your direction of traffic or did you do the turn on a red light? If you made the turn while your direction of travel had the green light, were there vehicles in the left turn bay for the opposite direction of travel? If not, then your movement could not possibly affect any other drivers. If your turn took place after stopping at a red light, what was the traffic like? If you yielded to all other appropriate drivers, that's a point to emphasize. Did you attempt to put on your left turn signal for the movement?

How you articulate everything depends on what happened, and you know that better than any of us do... If you can show a judge your intentions to make a left turn in short order, that the movement did not impact traffic in any way and that you checked to make sure nothing would be impacted, the judge may toss it out.

Yes, it's technically a traffic violation. If, however, you can show the judge that you considered it from every angle they may give you a break on it. Never know unless you try.

I'm about 90% sure I'll go fight it. There's very little chance of the actual officer showing up. From what I'm told TPD saves money by having a dedicated officer to testify at all civil traffic infractions.
As for the rest of the details I was turning from a side street so there was no light and the lanes were clear so I didn't affect traffic or cause a potentially unsafe situation.

For that one, I would probably go to court and try to fight it.... Like it was said above, ARTICULATE everything clearly.  

Worst case, judge says your guilty.  If he does say guilty, request traffic school then.

typically fighting a ticket in court eliminates your traffic school option... or at least that's how it was back in 2006 with my last ticket.

I would try because in tucson there is a GOOD chance the  cop wont show.. then u win.. especially for that ticket..

if he shows u probably wont win....  Thats kind of a chicken shit ticket....  I dont think most cops really ticket for that...

On the firs tpoint I beleive you are wrong.  I thought the LEO doesn't have to be present in order for the judge to rule against you.  The report is considered a sworn statement.  Its a myth that if the LEO doesnt show up, you get out of the ticket.  

Hell yes fight it. But first....wait. When you got the ticket, there is a date when you have to respond by on it. Wait till 3 days before the date and send it in with the box checked to request to go to court. It’ll take a week or 3 before the paperwork shows up for your court date on it. Then, when it's a week or so prior to the court date....request a new one due to medical or personal reasons. You don't need to prove it, just go ahead and do it. The idea is to make it a PITA for the cop to request court time at his shop and get tired of messing with a silly ticket. You don’t have to do that, but it may help…it’s your ticket. On the day of your court date, look as good as you can...suit, tie the whole works. The officer (if he shows, and yes, he has to be there or the ticket is out the window. That whole right to face your accusers rule) will testify first. After that, you will get a chance to testify. This is a small deal. It's only you, the judge and the officer. And it's not all like on the TV, it's close to the bench. At the end of your testimony, the Judge will rule. Make sure you say you came to court because you simply can't afford the school or the ticket. You really need to fall on your sword at this point. Go on about the economy, bills, kids’ school, etc. The judge will set the ruling. Worst case...pay the fine. Best case….. Officer doesn’t show...case closed no pay. Most likely to happen…..Judge feels sorry and amends the fine to something less...you pay less, you win. I recommend always fighting a ticket; Judges are left of center, and love to rule against the cops. I went from a $250 ticket to a $100 ticket. While I still paid....I paid less. Also, whatever you said or did at the time the officer stopped you were recorded, by him, on the reverse side of the ticket. You don’t get that part though. You do have the right to request a copy of that paperwork. You'll need to request it from the court. Always fight the tickets. Just giving your money away without a fight is stupid. It's your RIGHT to be tried in court, take it.

So there's no misunderstanding, the ticketing officer HAS to be there for the trial to proceed. If he doesn't show, go play the lottery, cause you are a lucky dude.

Hearsay testimony is admissible for Civil Violations; the citing officer does not need to be present as long as another officer is to testify on their behalf.

 

This is an informative thread.

That is a b.s. ticket.

Most people don't worry how many b.s. laws there are nor do they realize that no matter how good of a citizen you think you are you ARE violating several laws a day without even knowing it.  So long as enforcement of the b.s. laws everyone breaks is infrequent most people don't see a problem with these laws.  But people should remember that forbearance is at their pleasure and not ours any longer.

Does anyone know who I should contact to get a copy of the officer's notes for the ticket? I'm told that will basically be read as testimony. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to contact TPD records since I have a citation # and not a case #, or if I'm supposed to contact the court records dept.

Contact the records dept. first. They're going to be less busy than the court, most likely, and if it's th wrong number you can bet they've had the question before so they probably know the answer.

They get discipline for not showing up in court.  They also pick their court date based on their future availability for court, and usually make sure their time is set up so that court time is over time.  All the tickets they write for the period will usually end up on court for that same day.  

Would I fight it?  Gotta look at how much your hourly rate is.  Is your time worth it?

There are also lawyers that will take your case for around half price and tie it up with continuances and other bullshit until it is dismissed for some reason.  I would be interested to hear from someone who has tried this.  

I agree, it is a chickenshit ticket, unless you endangered someone.

Notes are on the back of his copy.  You won't get this until he shows up in court and says you were also speeding, cut someone off, did a burn out, or were wearing your hat backwards.  

From what I understand TPD uses digital reports so it should be in a database somewhere already.

Ok, one more time. The citing officer HAS TO BE THERE. It's his ticket, he wrote it and he has to defend it. No one else can do it for him. Fight the ticket, why the hell would you give up your money for nothing? It's not like you are sueing for some silly-ass slip and fall, or I spilt coffee on me crap. Is the officer said you did something wrong, and you don't think you did....fight it. It's your only chance to do so, don't pass it up. Call TPD records department and have your citation number handy. I'd give it a week or so as it does take time for the paperwork to make it thru the system. I am telling you what I did in my case and the leessons learned from that experience. It is up to you to either write a check for the amount of the fine, go to school, do the school on-line or fight the citation in court. Good luck either way, but the absolute worst that will happen is you end up paying the fine. Your case will take no longer than 10 minutes...tops. Cop speaks, then you then the judge rules. Really ham it up that you simply cannot afford the amount. Let us know what happens!

If it was a criminal ticket, you'd be right. TPD has been using an officer to be a sort of surrogate testifying officer since most citations are civil. You can argue that to the court, and you may win, but last I heard from my buddies who work there, TPD has a testifying officer at the court so they don't have to pay the patrol officer OT. FWIW I believe TPD is the only local agency doing this at the moment.

It isn't a CS ticket - it's a valid driving law.  Goes to show that 90 % of the idiots out there shouldn't be on the road.  If two cars are approaching an intersection, and one wants to turn right, but swings wide across most of the lanes, instead of turning from the right, into the right most lane - then traffic gets all assed up.

Anyhow - even though it's a title 28 violation, I can say that a Phoenix municipal court judge would toss it if no other traffic was affected.  There's no requirement for that in the law, but it's how it's applied.

Can't help with how it works in Tucson, but I never heard of another officer hearsaying on a civil violation....  that testimony is based off notes written on the back of an officer's ticket - no one has it but him.

Grand Jury indictments are a different kettle of fish - the report can be read and testified to by a 'hearsay officer' so that the city doesn't have to pay OT.

Keep in mind that most motors work during the day, so court is no OT usually, just a regular part of the day.  If you fight it, he'll be there.

Your best bet is to say that you did it, that no other traffic was affected, and that the reason is because your upcoming left hand turn was a short distance away.

It isn't a BS ticket from a strictly word for word reading of the statute. I can understand and appreciate the intent of the law, but if you need to make an immediate left and are not affecting any other traffic it is a BS ticket for him to write that up.

ETA: at the same time it doesn't define "practical." So I can just present my case and hope the judge agrees with my perspective.

Nope, if the cop doesn't show up, it gets tossed..... I got lucky with a speeding ticket that way. The judge WILL make you wait til the end of the session, to give the cop time to show.

bump for update

its your thread, wheres the update?

In the first post! I'll also update the result tomorrow.

I once got a ticket, that the issuing officer even admitted was bullshit AFTER I had pled guilty... and he said it within earshot of me. This was back in NJ.





It was "failure to yield to pedestrian".





Here was the situation. I was in the right lane, I pass a guy standing on the sidewalk...and he steps off the pavement and crosses the street after I pass. Cop pulls me over, I argue with him...telling him it wasnt close at all. He tells me "Yeah well fight it in court". So  I goto court...but end up pleading guilty anyway like the chump I was at the time. I was young, and didn't really know about how to defend myself in court (heck... I still don't really).





So then the officer is asked by the prosecutor, "So was it really close?" Officer responds with "Not at all!".





YOU BASTARD I thought to myself. Basically he just admitted that there was no real offense, and that I just got a BS Ticket. You see, had the pedestrian stepped off the sidewalk BEFORE I passed him, there was NO Way in hell that it "wouldn't be close". There was no way, being on the right lane, and the guy standing on the right-hand sidewalk, that he could have moved off the sidewalk prior to my passing... and it "not be close". The moment that guy gets off the sidewalk "it would be close." And since there is no real law against not yielding to pedestrians waiting on the side of the road...but merely pedestrians crossing the street, I had committed no offense.





With that statement, that cop had instantly affirmed my innocence, but I still got stuck with that damn ticket and the points that were associated with it.





F**K NEU JERZEI!
 

I have been pulled over for that before. The cop was fishing though, as we had just left the bowling alley, and he was checking if we had been drinking. Once he determined we had not, he gave me a friendly reminder to always turn into the rightmost lane. No ticket gratefully.

An update without an update is worthless.

Final Update 8/11:

I fought the law and I won. The ticketing officer did not enter any notes on the stop into the system so the state could not present a case. Citation dismissed.

What kind of car do you drive?  

A Jeep Cherokee.

Nice.