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Posted: 9/8/2004 5:12:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 5:12:32 AM EST by whoanelly]
Has anyone had any luck in obtaining a CLEO signoff for an SBR (short-barreled rifle)? I live in Oakdale right now, and may want to do this someday. Your experiences in this state?


.

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 7:23:31 AM EST
i don't think SBR's are legal in MN unless you have an SOT. ???

paging DSSPRO...
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:16:11 AM EST
I would call the local BATF and inquire. I've heard it's possible. Aren would prob. know.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 10:41:30 AM EST
I was just talking to Aren about his last week. SBR's are ok in MN, you just need to jump thru the hoops to get it, CLEO signature, and $200 to the ATF.


I"m thinking an SBR FAL like DSA's OSW would be a fun little unit.

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=SA58OSW&storeid=1&image=sa58osw.gif

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=00113C&storeid=1&image=feosw.gif

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:33:05 AM EST
So it looks like the hard part would be getting the CLEO signature. I wonder if they are generally hard-nosed about this, guess I won't know for sure until I try.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:26:42 PM EST
It never hertz to try, where do you live?

I got a signoff form mpls pd before I became a machine gun dealer for a SBR.

Everyone in about 2 week www.MNmachineguns should be up and running.

check it out
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:00:19 AM EST
I live in Oakdale (Washington County). I'm pretty sure the sheriff won't do it, maybe the Chief of Police will.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 9:33:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By whoanelly:
I live in Oakdale (Washington County). I'm pretty sure the sheriff won't do it, maybe the Chief of Police will.



the good thing is, you don't have to buy anything first. just bring the forms in. last year i bought a .223 can and then couldn't get a sign off. i ended up getting store credit and buying an AK instead.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 9:43:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By whoanelly:
I live in Oakdale (Washington County). I'm pretty sure the sheriff won't do it, maybe the Chief of Police will.



There is a class 2 out there last name is Sawyer, I'll check tonnight when I get home for his business card or maybe Aren has it
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 10:19:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By whoanelly:
I live in Oakdale (Washington County). I'm pretty sure the sheriff won't do it, maybe the Chief of Police will.



There is a class 2 out there last name is Sawyer, I'll check tonnight when I get home for his business card or maybe Aren has it



tomsawyer mfg. he posts on here occassionally. nice guy, he'll be at the 9/18 shoot. i had his email addy but lost it. he posts on the 1919a4 forums too.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:22:21 PM EST
his handle is LIKeMOPAR
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 9:28:09 AM EST
SBR's are legal in MN and the CLEO sign-off should be no problem. If for some reason they deny you. Simply request a meeting with the officer and show him the federal regs regarding SBR's. There are no regulations regarding short barreled rifles in the state of Minnesota. Also, they CAN NOT deny you if you are able to legally own a weapon.

Most CLEO's only deny candidates because they do not realize that it isn’t illegal in the state of MN to own or manufacture Short Barrel Rifles. Cans/Suppressors on the other hand are illegal in the state of Minnesota for civilian owner ship. And with the new verbage in section 97B.031 of DNR law...... <---- Yeah I know, what the fuck does the DNR have to do with "firearms regulations", it's illegal for us 07's & police departments to own suppressors, or any weapon with a threaded barrel for that matter.

I have letters going out to BATF, BCC and the AG's office for someone to clarify this. From talking with some departments that I do business with, there district prosecutors know that state law may say that it's illegal, but federal law states that its legal for a 07 manufacture/PD or Military branch to own these and there not prosecuting because of the conflict between state & federal law.

So with that all said. I would say that manufacturing a suppressor in the state of MN is at best a risky proposition.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:50:47 AM EST
Thanks for the info-I'll start the SBR paperwork and let you all know how it goes.


Link Posted: 9/10/2004 1:05:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By 00-MP5K-PDW-00:
And with the new verbage in section 97B.031 of DNR law...... <---- Yeah I know, what the fuck does the DNR have to do with "firearms regulations", it's illegal for us 07's & police departments to own suppressors, or any weapon with a threaded barrel for that matter.



So does this make my Walther P22 illegal? It does have a threaded barrel-no supressor. I bought the thing in St. Cloud so I am not seeing why it would be but the way you phrase your response it seems so.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 1:56:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 1:58:25 PM EST by 00-MP5K-PDW-00]
If you look at the letter of the law "yes". It also means that any preban ar15 would be illegal, any shotgun with the ability to add a choke (inside barrel threading, I could make a suppressor for a shotgun that threaded using the choke threads...... but why would you want to).

This example is a classic case of legislation getting passed with no prior research or language polishing/review. Here is the law 97B.031.

I wouldn't worry to much about it, I'm just bringing this up as an extreme example.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 2:29:04 PM EST
The law on supressors in MN was recently changed to allow for possession/use by tactical teams..
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 4:40:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 4:43:17 AM EST by 00-MP5K-PDW-00]

The law on supressors in MN was recently changed to allow for possession/use by tactical teams..



Whats the statute number? What I suspect your talking about is an "exception" for LE, 07's ect. ect. ect. A friend of mine, who's an 07 says the same thing but we can't find the statute number.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 3:19:13 PM EST
Here it is:

Subd. 1h. Silencers; authorized for law enforcement
purposes. Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a),
clause (1), licensed peace officers may use devices designed to
silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for tactical
emergency response operations. Tactical emergency response
operations include execution of high risk search and arrest
warrants, incidents of terrorism, hostage rescue, and any other
tactical deployments involving high risk circumstances. The
chief law enforcement officer of a law enforcement agency that
has the need to use silencing devices must establish and enforce
a written policy governing the use of the devices


Link to Staute
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:15:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 9:16:00 PM EST by likemopar]
whoanelly,
sorry I didn't see this thread earlier.
have not had any NFA items go through oakdale, but I have not heard of any problems.
Fill out the paperwork and drop it off at the PD. Happy to help walk you through the process if you need help or forms. The only real pain is the waiting.

Also, the silencer statue was changed this year to allow tactical LEO's to have silencers with a dept written policy in place. Interesting that SOT's (NFA dealers) are not included in the wording. Wonder how those guys get to demo and purchase a can?

Thanks,
Steve Sawyer
Tom Sawyer Mfg
Woodbury, Mn
612-805-4330
07 FFL / 02 SOT
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:24:42 PM EST
Are the forms available for download anywhere? Or are they by mail only? I haven’t had any luck finding out on the BATF’s website.

I’ve got a couple of SBR projects I’d like to try if it’s possible. I’m in Blaine BTW, if anyone has heard anything about the Blaine Chief or Anoka Co. Sheriff signing Form 1’s.

Thanks, UJ
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 2:18:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 2:19:01 PM EST by likemopar]
UJ,
You will need to send in the following forms/items to manufacture a SBR.

1) Two LEO signed form 1 with photos attached.
2) One certificate of compliance
3) Two completed fingerprint cards
4) check for $200

You can download the forms at:
http://www.titleii.com/archives/000008.html
All work except the fingerprint cards.
You might want to order them direct from the BAFTE here:
http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

Any SOT should have these forms also.
Get your fingerprints done the same time you turn in the form 1 for the signature.
This is not the "hurdle" that it might seem. Most LEO's do the "background" check and have them ready in a couple of days. Basically the same process as the purchase permit.

BTW, depending on the type of SBR, it might be better to do it as an AOW since this is only a $5 tax.

Give me a call if you have any questions or need the forms.
thanks,
Steve
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 3:15:33 PM EST


BTW, depending on the type of SBR, it might be better to do it as an AOW since this is only a $5 tax.


this only aplies to firearms already registered as AOW
If a individaul reg's a form 1 for a AOW it is 200.00, If he ever sells it it is 5.00.

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 3:57:10 PM EST
UncleJake,

EMAIL ME!!! I live in Blaine and the chief DOES sign form 4s. i have a letter that you can attach to your forms that might help. it just tells about the laws and that you need his help to comply with the law. always helps to let them think you need their signature to comply with law.

he signed in less than 1 day!

Craig

akalashnikova@yahoo.com
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 4:11:19 PM EST
Thanks Dsspro,
Correct on the $200 AOW making tax for a non 02 manufacturer.
Have a 02 manufacture make the AOW and then the transfers are only $5.
I've done several.
BTW, another advantage to an AOW is it is not subject the ten foreign parts issue.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:14:36 AM EST
Thanks for the info guys...

Mr. Mojo, email will be inbound. Now to figure out how many Krinkovs I can fit in the safe before the wife notices...

Do you hear that sucking sound?? I think it's my bank account... On the plus side, all these little, folding stock, SBR's should take up less room!!!

Thanks again guys, UJ
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:33:19 AM EST
I've been trying to decide between an SBR or a Bushmaster AR 15 pistol. Both are pretty useless, but totally unPC, so I need one!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:03:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 8:03:31 AM EST by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:28:28 AM EST
Just a quick note.
The $200 transfer tax is a one time payment when you initially transfer the weapon not an annual tax.
After that no additional "cost" to have except ammo.
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