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Posted: 11/25/2003 8:03:12 PM EDT
Haven't posted much lately, but have dropped in to look around.  
You guys are keeping this place pretty clean.


I have a question for you all.  
Whats the max punishment someone might get for illegal carry of a concealed weapon.  A friend at work knows someone who was pulled over for a ticket and got caught.  No record, no priors is what she told me.  I told her it's bad news, but wanted to ask you all.  Let me know what you guys think.  

She asked me since I have a CCW, but I don't know.

Later,
Kyle
'WillysWagon'
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:51:51 PM EDT
From the permit information packet -



1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:

a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or

b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or

............




Penalties for a class 2 misdemeanor:




Class 2 misdemeanor penalty - Minimum sentence: 3 months imprisonment or
$250 fine or both. Maximum sentence: 12 months imprisonment or $1000 fine or
both.





Ouch!!!!!  Sounds like the $156.50 is a relative deal compared to that.


Hope she does all right. Was this in El Paso?
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:27:49 AM EDT
I'll ask today if it was El Paso County.

Thanks for the info RickyJ
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:29:16 AM EDT
Plus the "weapon" will be forfeited to the state. A great way to lose a good pistol, knife, etc. If convicted you won't get it back.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 10:40:30 AM EDT
Thanks for the info RickyJ.

BTW, at what point/size is a knife determined to be a weapon?

Also, what is the state laws on automatic knives (switchblades)? I've started seeing more of them at funshows and been told "they are legal but you won't usually get hassled over them unless you're causing trouble." Oh yes mister salesman, I believe that one. But I've also heard you can carry them on your concealed weapon permit.

So what about knives as weapons?
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:36:36 PM EDT
I know my CCW permit specifies 'handgun' permit, not a general weapon permit.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 2:24:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WillysWagon:
I have a question for you all.  
Whats the max punishment someone might get for illegal carry of a concealed weapon.  A friend at work knows someone who was pulled over for a ticket and got caught.



Depending on the county, there are different rules for carrying a weapon in your car.

In Denver, you must be going to, or coming back from a shooting area/range in order to have a firearm in your car. Also, due to the Denver law, the firearm must be unloaded and out of hands reach.

Everywhere else, a loaded pistol has to be out of hands reach (not easily reachable/obtainable while driving) to be legal. This means that if the pistol is locked up in the glove box (Loaded), the pistol is legal. This only applies to hand guns, if you have a loaded Rifle in your car/truck, then the fine/law is from the Div of wildlife and game, and used to prevent pouching.

My guess is that the pistol was either under the seat, or was within hands reach. Or if she was pulled over in Denver with the unloaded pistol out of hands reach, simple forgot to tell them that see was planning on going to the range latter that night/morning before going home.

Since we do not live in Denver, my wife makes a habit out of carrying a loaded pistol in her car.  She has been pulled over several times coming back down the hill in Boulder on the way home, and has had no problem with the locked loaded pistol.  When asked if she has any firearms, she states that she has a loaded firearm in the locked glove box, which the officers retain during the stop, conduct there stop, then hand back the pistol (unloaded) after the stop is completed.  At this point, she re-loads the pistol, and relocks it back up in the glove box, then continues on her way.

In Colorado, your vehicle is considered the same as your property (home) and is covered under the Make my day law.  The only laws that supercede this, is the Div of W&G for loaded rifles, The state law that requires the pistol must be out of hands reach while operating the vehicle, and almost every law in Denver*.

* Denver is not really a city; it’s incorporated, so basically it can make up any law it wants, and is not really governed by the Constitution of the United States, nor any State laws.

P.S. The real funny thing that I just though of is when I needed to pull the weapon out of the car and give it a general cleaning (when we lived in a town house).  Since Boulder is currently a tree hugger town, I had a tendency to not want to flash the pistol on the way back to the house from the parking lot. So I unloaded the pistol in the car, and then tucked it in the back of my pants to get it into the town house, out of sight of the general public.  At this point, I had concealed the weapon for the few steps back in.  

But if push came to shove, I could of just remind the judge of the time I quarter/stripped a deer out on the patio deck of our old town house (second floor, over looking 30th street) and dam near had a PETA demonstration until I finished quartering the deer and took the fame/meat back inside.

Hey, it wasn’t a problem in the early 80’s, and didn’t realized how much the town had changed in the 15 years that I was gone, so stop laughing your ass off.

Link Posted: 11/28/2003 8:19:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 8:22:12 PM EDT by Lexington]
If said weapon was a firearm, then there is no problem. Colorado state law specifically allows carrying a firearm in your vehicle for personal protection or for "other lawful purposes". The location of the firearm in the vehicle is not stipulated in state law, and therefore by its silence, the law allows everywhere in the vehicle. Under the seat. On the passenger seat. Within reach. Loaded.

Anecdote: A friend of mine got pulled over and his loaded revolver was under the driver's seat. The cop found it, and my friend said, "Hey that's legal. I know my rights." (My friend is Russian. ) The cop said, "You're right. But you smell like alcohol and we're busting you for possession of a firearm while intoxicated." Gun good. Alcohol bad.

As for Denver, Dano523, it is a "home rule city" that is not exempt from state law, but enjoys a special and limited status that was established when the legal entity of Denver was created in 1902 by Amendment XX of the Colorado constitution.

A few tidbits from Article XX, Section 6:

(A home rule)...city or town, are hereby vested with, and they shall always have, power to make, amend, add to or replace the charter of said city or town, which shall be its organic law and extend to all its local and municipal matters.

Such charter and the ordinances made pursuant thereto in such matters shall supersede within the territorial limits and other jurisdiction of said city or town any law of the state in conflict therewith.

The statutes of the state of Colorado, so far as applicable, shall continue to apply to such cities and towns, except insofar as superseded by the charters of such cities and towns or by ordinance passed pursuant to such charters.


On matters of statewide concern, the state always supercedes the City and County of Denver, which is why the state legislature, when it wants to affect Denver with new state laws, makes a finding in the new bill that the "matter is of statewide concern". Read the new CCW and Preemption laws.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 3:59:33 PM EDT
So, what happened? I want to know.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:27:24 PM EDT
As of two weeks ago I can tell you from first hand experience what the Colorado Springs PD's feelings are in regards to knives used for self defense.  I wont get into great detail, but they have no problem with you using a knife in place of a gun, so long as you were carrying it legally.  My knife I use at work is a CRKT M16-14 and is about a 4" folder.  The police arrested the person that attacked me and basically told him he was lucky I couldn't get to my gun quicker or he may have ended up shot instead.  He was arrested for assaulting me, assaulting 2 cops, and on an outstanding bench warrant.  I think most areas would allow the defensive use of a knife as long as you were carrying it legally in the first place and weren't some kind of lowlife.  Karl.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 8:26:15 AM EDT
Willyswagon what was the weapon that was concealed first of all? I would have to say that Lexington is correct on all counts. There is a gray area in Colorado law in reference to a concealed handgun in your vehicle, your right to protect yourself while traveling and Colorado's recognition of your vehicle as an extension of your home in terms of privacy. However Dano is absolutely incorrect about the make my day law applying to your vehicle the make my day law only applies to your dwelling.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 1:19:04 PM EDT
You sound like a good guy - hell since you are here I know you are, so please don't take this personal -it's not meant to be.



Originally Posted By Dano523:
Everywhere else, a loaded pistol has to be out of hands reach (not easily reachable/obtainable while driving) to be legal. This means that if the pistol is locked up in the glove box (Loaded), the pistol is legal. This only applies to hand guns, if you have a loaded Rifle in your car/truck, then the fine/law is from the Div of wildlife and game, and used to prevent pouching.

In Colorado, your vehicle is considered the same as your property (home) and is covered under the Make my day law.  The only laws that supercede this, is the Div of W&G for loaded rifles, The state law that requires the pistol must be out of hands reach while operating the vehicle, and almost every law in Denver*.



You are wrong - a pistol can be loaded in the vehicle - as long as it's not "concealed" - I usually toss mine on the dash. LEO can get a little bent out of shape until I tell 'em that I just didn't want there to be ANY question as to wether or not it was concealed.

You contridict yourself in sayiny that your car is the same as your home and that the pistol must be unloaded, etc.

You are correct on Div Wildlife requiring unloaded rifle - unloaded to them is the camber empty. A mag full and inserted is OK.

When someone says something is illegal I wish they would back up their arguments with written law, case law or admin law cites instead of speculation and rumor or, because that's what a LEO told them.


* Denver is not really a city; it’s incorporated, so basically it can make up any law it wants, and is not really governed by the Constitution of the United States, nor any State laws.


Really?????????????? I believe the US Supreme Court disagrees with you on this.

Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:49:39 PM EDT
I haven't had time to see my buddy at work to see what happened to her friend (the one that had the concealed weapon).  I'll let you know the details whenever I get them.

Kyle
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:59:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickyj:

From the permit information packet -

1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:

a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or

b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person;



Okay, that seems to say pocket knives are illegal.  Surely that's not the case.  So what's a good knife and what's a bad knife?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:08:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 7:11:26 AM EDT by Lancelot]
Concealed poket knives are illegal if the blade length is greater then 3 1/2 inches.

Also the city and county of Denver is a home rule government. And there is at least one court ruling that says that they can do what they want, and that the US Constitution does not have precidence.

They do what they want, and they get away with it.

Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:26:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Concealed poket knives are illegal if the blade length is greater then 3 1/2 inches.




Dang, guess I'll have to stop carrying my Ka-Bar in my pocket.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:48:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 11:51:27 PM EDT by PeteCO]
Strange.  I've been pulled over in Ft Collins, Windsor, and by Larimer Sheriff's deputies, and none of them have hassled me for having a pistol in the car.  I would never volunteer the info except that the gun is usually in the center console of the Tahoe, which happens to be where the registration and insurance info is.

The last time I was pulled over (in Windsor)my  response to their request for my registration was "well, there's a Glock on top of it, do you want to get it or do you want me to hand it to you".  He just chuckled and said "go for it, just don't shoot me".  

Curious to know where this was.  Also, how did the cop find the weapon if it was concealed?
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 5:16:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 5:23:37 PM EDT by Roadkillcoyote]
Under the current law, she should have been legal if was in the car.

18-12-204. Permit Contents - Validity - Carrying Requirements.


(3) (a) a person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:

(I) the handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense…



When did this happen, and in what area?



Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:33:21 PM EDT
Dano, have you seen that 8 point buck that walks down Valmont b/w 28th and Broadway in the mornings?  Makes my finger start twitching, hahaha!!
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