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Posted: 9/22/2005 6:21:13 AM EDT
would the Star Ledger or Asbury Park Press run a story like this one????

Guns Made The Difference

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Neighbors tell of gun battles after the storm
Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:34 AM ET



By Andy Sullivan

NEW ORLEANS, Sept 21 (Reuters) - After the storm came the carjackers and burglars. Then came the gun battles and the chemical explosions that shook the restored Victorians in New Orleans' Algiers Point neighborhood.

"The hurricane was a breeze compared with the crime and terror that followed," said Gregg Harris, a psychotherapist who lives in the battered area.

As life returned to this close-knit neighborhood three weeks after Hurricane Katrina, residents said they hoped their experience could convince political leaders to get serious about the violence and poor services that have long been an unfortunate hallmark of their city.

"I think now it's a wake-up call," Harris said.

After the storm, the neighborhood association had to act as law enforcement and emergency response unit as city services collapsed and the police force was unable to protect them.

Citizens organized armed patrols and checked on the elderly. They slept on their porches with loaded shotguns and bolted awake when intruders stumbled on the aluminum cans they had scattered on the sidewalk.

Gunshots rang out for days, sometimes terrifyingly close.

For Harris, the first warning sign came on Tuesday, the day after the storm, when two young men hit his partner, Vinnie Pervel, over the head and drove off with his Ford van.

"A police car drove up behind me and saw it happening but he didn't do anything," said Pervel, who heads the 1,500-household neighborhood association.

Then residents heard that police vehicles were being carjacked and looters were taking guns and ammunition from nearby stores.

"We thought, 'Perhaps this is going to get really ugly,'" said Gareth Stubbs, a marine surveyor who lives across Pelican Street from Harris and Pervel.

A Texas woman who runs a Web site called Polimom.com served as a link between those who stayed and those who had left. With her help, they stockpiled an arsenal of shotguns, derringer pistols and an old AK-47.

They were put to use the next day.

"Some looters came up and pulled a gun on the wrong group of men," said Harris, who said he did not fire a gun himself and declined to say who else was involved in the battle.

"Two men were shot right there," Harris said, pointing down the street as he watered his rose bushes. "One was shot in the back, the other in the leg, and the third I was told made it a block and a half before he died in the street. I did not go down to see the body."

The next day a nearby stockpile of chemicals exploded, shaking the houses and sending a fireball 300 feet into the sky. The fire burned for another three days, Harris said.

"For five days we didn't need FEMA, the Red Cross or the National Guard," Harris said. "The neighborhood took care of itself."



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© Reuters 2005. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:37:19 AM EDT
Call me naive, but I don't think the lawlessness of New Orleans would have occurred in New York. Maybe in isolated places, like Brownsville, but I think on the whole NYers would have kept order.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:08:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Call me naive, but I don't think the lawlessness of New Orleans would have occurred in New York. Maybe in isolated places, like Brownsville, but I think on the whole NYers would have kept order.



Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there widespread looting in NYC in the '77 blackout? Maybe not to the extent of NO, but it did happen.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:30:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Call me naive, but I don't think the lawlessness of New Orleans would have occurred in New York. Maybe in isolated places, like Brownsville, but I think on the whole NYers would have kept order.



Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there widespread looting in NYC in the '77 blackout? Maybe not to the extent of NO, but it did happen.




You are correct but that was a different time. There was no looting in 2003; people slept on the streets. Crime over the blackout of 03 was actually significantly less than over a non-blackout period, despite an oppressive heat wave during the blackout.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 9:09:33 AM EDT
OK, you are naive. Plan accordingly but I suspect you already know that.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:25:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:34:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Meanwhile upstaters consider the ramifications of a NYC SHTF scenario

[rubs hands together in glee]Look Jethro there's another city boy sneaking around in the bushes, aim high this time! Them there Crye Multi Cam pants is $ 50 britches![/rubs hands together in glee]

HAWK![spits chewing tobacco on the lens of a 30-30 mounted tasco and rubs it off with a Dale Earnhardt Memorial Mossy Oak hankie] I suppose, the one's we catch ain't good fer much. The last bunch kept tryin' to milk the bull.



People outside of NY think NYS is an extension of NYC. They have no idea of the good ole boys in upstate NY. They even have banjos up thare.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:05:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 7:08:06 AM EDT by zeekh]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Meanwhile upstaters consider the ramifications of a NYC SHTF scenario

[rubs hands together in glee]Look Jethro there's another city boy sneaking around in the bushes, aim high this time! Them there Crye Multi Cam pants is $ 50 britches![/rubs hands together in glee]



Jethro ( my son's real name named after the band Jethro Tull ) wouldn't bother with the "$50 britches". Now if he was wearing Carharts or maybe lugging aroung alum. brass or copper he could take to the port to scrap that would be a different story. and yes we are upstate
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:08:04 PM EDT
See you folks from "down-state" seem to think we're all "Rednecks" up here, well my best advice is "come get you some."
BTW: I grew up in the South and have spent the last 18 years "Up North", let me tell you something: "Redneck" is a derrogitory term used to describe folks who live outside the citys and are though to originate and/or live in the South. This just isn't true. Without doubt Rednecks originated, and are still thriving in the North Country! Know why we don't have any "real crime"??? because everyone knows that farmboys have guns, shovels, and places to bury you so deep that Christ won't find you on the second comeing.
ANYTIME disasters occure there are scum-bags who will capitalize on it, be it thru looting or screwing whoever's writing checks.
There is a signature line that says it best: "There are givers and takers in this world. The takers eat well at nite, the givers sleep well."
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:13:19 PM EDT
taggggggggg
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:49:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 8:58:21 PM EDT by Adirondack1]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Meanwhile upstaters consider the ramifications of a NYC SHTF scenario

[rubs hands together in glee]Look Jethro there's another city boy sneaking around in the bushes, aim high this time! Them there Crye Multi Cam pants is $ 50 britches![/rubs hands together in glee]

HAWK![spits chewing tobacco on the lens of a 30-30 mounted tasco and rubs it off with a Dale Earnhardt Memorial Mossy Oak hankie] I suppose, the one's we catch ain't good fer much. The last bunch kept tryin' to milk the bull.



Aimless, you talking from experiance here?
Seems that I NEVER see you at the campfire at GATM????
Besides everyone knows that CRYE MULTICAMS are $190.00 a set.

Not all Upstaters are hillbillies, as well as not all NYC boys are sissies when it comes to surviving a SHTF scenario.

You guys want to pull out the stereotypes... I guess we'll have to play DELIVERANCE.. I'll play Burt Reynolds...(I'm pretty good with my BEAR recurve bow) Who wants to play Ned Beaty? We'll get Helldog and Hiram to play the HILLBILLIES!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:47:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
would the Star Ledger or Asbury Park Press run a story like this one????

Guns Made The Difference
<snip>




Ah, no.
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