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Posted: 8/9/2007 4:25:25 AM EST
I've read a couple times that the AG has directed that CCW violations not be prosecuted if the individual is otherwise law abiding and has a clean record.  Is this a rumor, or has it been substantiated?  Is there a written directive?  Does this have to do with Hamdan, (compelling state interest, police power, constitutional amendment, blah, blah), and not wanting to get into more protracted legal appeals to further flesh out the boundaries for the constitutionality of the existing statute?  
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 6:00:55 AM EST
[#1]
The AG doesn't have the authority, AFAIK, to direct what is or isn't prosecuted by county District Attorneys.  The AG could issue an opinion that 941.23 is unconstitutional and *shouldn't* be prosecuted.  That has not happened.

I'd be interested in hearing anyone with information contrary to this.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 7:04:42 AM EST
[#2]

Quoted:
I've read a couple times that the AG has directed that CCW violations not be prosecuted if the individual is otherwise law abiding and has a clean record.  Is this a rumor, or has it been substantiated?  Is there a written directive?  Does this have to do with Hamdan, (compelling state interest, police power, constitutional amendment, blah, blah), and not wanting to get into more protracted legal appeals to further flesh out the boundaries for the constitutionality of the existing statute?  


No there has been no directive like that from the AG, however the AGs office has refused to partake in the case of the pizza guy in Milwuakee.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 7:48:32 AM EST
[#3]

Quoted:
however the AGs office has refused to partake in the case of the pizza guy in Milwuakee.


What would the AG's office do, exactly?  
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 8:44:50 AM EST
[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
however the AGs office has refused to partake in the case of the pizza guy in Milwuakee.


What would the AG's office do, exactly?  



Couldn't say, I don't know how it all works. But it is noted in court documents that the AGs office was not going to be a part of the prosecution of this guy.
Thats alls I knows.
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 6:26:25 PM EST
[#5]
The AG cannot override the state supreme court. And the court has held that 941.23 is constitutional.

There won't be hardly anything going on with regard to concealed carry for the next year or more. But there will likely be a surprise for the anti's, if things go right.

The Vegas case may blow a big hole in the statute prohibiting concealed carry. His case is better than Hamdan's. Much better.

I've also heard, although through (reliable) third-party sources, that there have been some CCW charges that have been dropped because of the Hamdan decision.

If the attorney for Vegas is as good as everyone says he is, we could get a small victory.

But, if the gun owners in Wisconsin would vote their guns, we'd get Doyle and the anti-gunners out of office, and we'd have the best CCW bill in the country.

Why won't the hunters stand with us?



Link Posted: 8/10/2007 2:16:28 AM EST
[#6]
Unions,that's why!
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 5:32:51 AM EST
[#7]

Quoted:
The AG cannot override the state supreme court. And the court has held that 941.23 is constitutional.

There won't be hardly anything going on with regard to concealed carry for the next year or more. But there will likely be a surprise for the anti's, if things go right.

The Vegas case may blow a big hole in the statute prohibiting concealed carry. His case is better than Hamdan's. Much better.

I've also heard, although through (reliable) third-party sources, that there have been some CCW charges that have been dropped because of the Hamdan decision.

If the attorney for Vegas is as good as everyone says he is, we could get a small victory.

But, if the gun owners in Wisconsin would vote their guns, we'd get Doyle and the anti-gunners out of office, and we'd have the best CCW bill in the country.

Why won't the hunters stand with us?





I don't know about the best CCW bill in the country. There were more than a few issues with what we did have last time. The "Best" CCW is VT style, seeing as we very much do already have that right, court recognised or not.

While the AG's office can't "override" the supreme court, they can pick and choose what they prosecute. Just because you get caught CCW doesn't mean the officer who caught you has to arrest you for it, they do have some discretion in that, same with the DA's office, they don't have to charge you and the AGs office.

I think it helps us a bit when people seen that the AG's office will not take part in the prosecution of a responcible, law abiding  person using a concealed weapon in defense of his/her life.


ETA: This hunter is wondering the same thing....
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 5:50:07 AM EST
[#8]

Quoted:
Unions,that's why!


This is a huge part of it.  There are a lot of people around here that work in mills and foundries that make a very decent wage compared to the rest of us shmoes.  Thier union affiliations bring home the paycheck.  But if you look at the red/blue maps, Milwaukee, Madison, and Eau Claire are still the problem areas.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 7:42:21 AM EST
[#9]
I think people might be unclear as to the role of the AG's office.  You won't be prosecuted by the AG's office for CCW.  You'll be prosecuted by the county's District Attorney.

The only reason the AG's office gets involved in local cases, AFAIK, is when the local DA's office is overwhelmed (like the Vang murders in northern Wisconsin), or to assign special prosecutors for huge events.  There's no way they'd get involved in prosecuting a class A misdemeanor.

The AG's office also provides services to local DA's and LE agencies, such as "opinions" and such.

So, the AG's failure to prosecute CCW means nothing, just like their failure to prosecute shoplifting means nothing.  You'll still be prosecuted by someone.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 9:24:19 AM EST
[#10]

Quoted:
You'll still be prosecuted by someone.


That's the thing to remember.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 11:33:56 AM EST
[#11]

Quoted:
I think people might be unclear as to the role of the AG's office.  You won't be prosecuted by the AG's office for CCW.  You'll be prosecuted by the county's District Attorney.

The only reason the AG's office gets involved in local cases, AFAIK, is when the local DA's office is overwhelmed (like the Vang murders in northern Wisconsin), or to assign special prosecutors for huge events.  There's no way they'd get involved in prosecuting a class A misdemeanor.

The AG's office also provides services to local DA's and LE agencies, such as "opinions" and such.

So, the AG's failure to prosecute CCW means nothing, just like their failure to prosecute shoplifting means nothing.  You'll still be prosecuted by someone.


I get what your saying, but the AGs office does get involved. Also as to why they' get involved in a class a Misda...well they did in hamdan and in fisher, at least when it got to the WSC they did.

The AGs office said they were not getting involved in this particular case so that may mean anything from "here is our opinion on CCW" to "your on your own with this one DA whoever.

As much as I like an AG that is willing to look the other way on CCW by law abiding citizens, I'd prefer a DA that does.


Link Posted: 8/10/2007 12:34:52 PM EST
[#12]
The Wis A.G. is a lame duck he aint going to do shit but fall in ith the Doyle Klan
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 12:55:19 PM EST
[#13]
I dare say he's a LOT better than Keg Lautenschlager.  And he hasn't lost his re-election, so he's not a lame duck.  
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 1:27:45 PM EST
[#14]
The very fact that J.B. Van Hollen has chosen not to get involved in the Vegas case is proof positive that he's on our side. (Anyone who's had a chance to talk to him knows that he's a real gun guy).

The Vegas case will be state vs. Andres Vegas. But, unlike Hamdan, there won't be a deputy AG representing the DOJ. It looks like Irene what's-her-name, the assistant Milwaukee DA, will be arguing for the prosecution.

After the Hamdan decision, Peg Laugtenschlager quiety issued a memo to law enforcement and prosecutors around the state announcing seminars on how to deal with concealed carry cases in light of the Hamdan decision.

One of the WCCA volunteers is a county prosecutor, and he told me that. He also has told me that there are people who are being released uncharged because of the Hamdan decision.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 3:07:25 PM EST
[#15]

Quoted:
The very fact that J.B. Van Hollen has chosen not to get involved in the Vegas case is proof positive that he's on our side. (Anyone who's had a chance to talk to him knows that he's a real gun guy).

The Vegas case will be state vs. Andres Vegas. But, unlike Hamdan, there won't be a deputy AG representing the DOJ. It looks like Irene what's-her-name, the assistant Milwaukee DA, will be arguing for the prosecution.

After the Hamdan decision, Peg Laugtenschlager quiety issued a memo to law enforcement and prosecutors around the state announcing seminars on how to deal with concealed carry cases in light of the Hamdan decision.

One of the WCCA volunteers is a county prosecutor, and he told me that. He also has told me that there are people who are being released uncharged because of the Hamdan decision.


That last part is something I wish was more public, but hey......

J.B. put himself out there as being pro CCW before the election and he has backed that up thus far. Which of course is good for us.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 6:30:58 PM EST
[#16]
"That last part is something I wish was more public, but hey......"

Photoman, the guy is a conservative, pro-gun assistant DA in a liberal county. He doesn't want to lose his job, which is something that I'm sure everyone can appreciate.

He's a great source of information and advice because he's looking at all of this from the perspective of a prosecutor, not a defense attorney, or one of us armchair lawyers. Even after the Hamdan decision, he said that he could get a prosecution for someone carrying concealed in home or business if he wanted to. Of course, he wouldn't do that.

One thing he's done is hammer home to me the point that there's the letter of the law, the spirit of the law, and then what prosecutors can do with the law. The latter is very much different from the two former issues.

Despite our RKBA amendment, and despite Hamdan, an aggressive anti-gun DA can still hurt somebody.

I want to change the law now, just like everybody else. But how, with Doyle and Robson in power?
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 6:14:38 AM EST
[#17]

Quoted:
"That last part is something I wish was more public, but hey......"

Photoman, the guy is a conservative, pro-gun assistant DA in a liberal county. He doesn't want to lose his job, which is something that I'm sure everyone can appreciate.

He's a great source of information and advice because he's looking at all of this from the perspective of a prosecutor, not a defense attorney, or one of us armchair lawyers. Even after the Hamdan decision, he said that he could get a prosecution for someone carrying concealed in home or business if he wanted to. Of course, he wouldn't do that.

One thing he's done is hammer home to me the point that there's the letter of the law, the spirit of the law, and then what prosecutors can do with the law. The latter is very much different from the two former issues.

Despite our RKBA amendment, and despite Hamdan, an aggressive anti-gun DA can still hurt somebody.

I want to change the law now, just like everybody else. But how, with Doyle and Robson in power?


I just meant that people are not being prosecuted for CCW because of Hamdan.

Use an alternate breach point. Every attempt at CCW in this state has been by going though the front door. It hasn't worked, so lets go through a window!

it seems like every time something seems to start getting some steam we end up hearing oh we have to wait till.....

Now is the time we should be doing something


ETA: Is it possible to get an update on that there umbrella group? You can just IM me if you prefer. It would be nice to have someone from the group come to one of our board meetings to talk about whats going on, who all is taking part and that kinda stuff.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 7:47:06 AM EST
[#18]

Quoted:
I dare say he's a LOT better than Keg Lautenschlager.  And he hasn't lost his re-election, so he's not a lame duck.  


Your right he is not a drunk
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 9:17:26 AM EST
[#19]

Quoted:

Why won't the hunters stand with us?





Because they can't stand us.

My ex-girlfriends father and brother were members of Daniel Boone up in Hubertus...

About 11 years ago (when I was dating her) the club had allowed some police dept to use the range for officer qualifications, but emphasised a club rule stating "NO HUMAN SHAPED TARGETS".  Well, the cops roll up with their standard range targets and got told to not bother coming back.

The hunters really believe the 2A is about sporting goods
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 1:21:10 PM EST
[#20]
Photoman, it's been awhile since I've talked to Scott Taetsch, our NRA Field Rep. He's the guy who's putting the statewide group together. I really should give him a call to see how it's progressing, although he tends to talk for a long, long time. ;)

He said that the group would be up and running by October. I hope it's on track.

Everybody is frustrated because nothing can be done about concealed carry right now. We can push open carry as a lever to get concealed carry, but our friends in Madison and Fairfax want us to wait until next year.

Even if that effort is successful, and people can carry openly without fear of a disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace arrest, and the public starts demanding that the guns be "hidden", we'll still have a problem: any CCW bill that comes out of the Senate that Doyle would sign would be so restrictive that we wouldn't want it. We'd have to kill it.

But that wouldn't be entirely bad. If it reached a point where Judy Robson and Jim Doyle had to explain why a concealed weapons permitting system was good, they'd be doing advance work for us.

I don't know that we'd ever reach that point, but that's where we want to try to get to while Doyle is running the show.

Link Posted: 8/13/2007 6:21:03 AM EST
[#21]

Quoted:
Photoman, it's been awhile since I've talked to Scott Taetsch, our NRA Field Rep. He's the guy who's putting the statewide group together. I really should give him a call to see how it's progressing, although he tends to talk for a long, long time. ;)

He said that the group would be up and running by October. I hope it's on track.

Everybody is frustrated because nothing can be done about concealed carry right now. We can push open carry as a lever to get concealed carry, but our friends in Madison and Fairfax want us to wait until next year.

Even if that effort is successful, and people can carry openly without fear of a disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace arrest, and the public starts demanding that the guns be "hidden", we'll still have a problem: any CCW bill that comes out of the Senate that Doyle would sign would be so restrictive that we wouldn't want it. We'd have to kill it.

But that wouldn't be entirely bad. If it reached a point where Judy Robson and Jim Doyle had to explain why a concealed weapons permitting system was good, they'd be doing advance work for us.

I don't know that we'd ever reach that point, but that's where we want to try to get to while Doyle is running the show.


This is one of those times where you have to tell Madison and Fairfax to stuff it, and just do it. Waiting doesn't gain us anything. And while we wait people forget all about it. The idea is that you keep the issue in people minds at all times. You hae to keep it in peoples faces or it's just a "that time of the year again" issue. We don't want and can not have that.

Also we have to right now stop pushing for CCW legislation, because as you said we will get something they want not what we want. We push open carry, and we push CCW through the courts. Par tof the big issue is people are not hearing about CCW anymore. It needs to be brought back up on a regular basis. PR on our side is anything but stellar, we react to what they do and thats not the way to get things done. We don't have time to wait thats part of the problem......


I'll clean this up  bit after I get home from work.
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 6:05:05 PM EST
[#22]
Photoman, I don't want to talk about particulars on a public forum.

Would you please call me when you have a chance? My phone number is the one on the WCCA website.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 7:40:41 PM EST
[#23]
deleted
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:22:20 AM EST
[#24]

Quoted:
Photoman, I don't want to talk about particulars on a public forum.

Would you please call me when you have a chance? My phone number is the one on the WCCA website.

Thanks.


Will do.

I have your number from the IM.
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