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Posted: 10/11/2005 2:48:15 PM EDT
I'm really thinking of getting an FFL, if for no other reason than to allow myself and friends to buy items and have them shipped to me to avoid ridiculous FFL transfer fees and/or half ass shop owners. Who knows, it could open up into a new occupation (although I know it won't pay as well as my current day job).

Anyone ever look into doing this?
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 3:20:14 PM EDT
I tried back in the 90's because some gun writer wrote about what a deal you can get on a Para Ord frame by getting a ffl.  He made it sound easy.  When I called the Cleveland ATF office, I found it  would be a bit more complicated.
If nothing's changed, you need to be able to prove that you are in the business of selling gun and/or a gunsmith.  The ATF agent told me that this means having a place of business (I guess even if it's your home) but tax records and all other requisites of running a business.  I got the impression that to get it just to get a deal on guns for yourself/friends would be more trouble than it's worth.
But like i said this is circa '92 so things may have changed.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 3:49:45 PM EDT
I wouldn't mind the paperwork and all that, because if anything it would be a useful exercise in finding out if it's something I would indeed like to do longtime.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 6:33:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 6:33:51 AM EDT by Chuck]
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 11:24:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Apple_Juice:
I tried back in the 90's because some gun writer wrote about what a deal you can get on a Para Ord frame by getting a ffl.  He made it sound easy.  When I called the Cleveland ATF office, I found it  would be a bit more complicated.
If nothing's changed, you need to be able to prove that you are in the business of selling gun and/or a gunsmith.  The ATF agent told me that this means having a place of business (I guess even if it's your home) but tax records and all other requisites of running a business.  I got the impression that to get it just to get a deal on guns for yourself/friends would be more trouble than it's worth.
But like i said this is circa '92 so things may have changed.



They're about the same
Here's a partial  list of stuff that was included in my packet when I thought about doing the same thing and when talking to an ATF agent he explained them clearly

Any employees including anyone who will  handle the arms while they're in your care (he told me wife included if selling out of the home)
4 fingerprint cards 2 will go to the ATF and 2 will go to the FBI
you will need to get a tax ID number, IRS offers this service online
need proof of a lockable storage device for the guns, this preferably has to be signed off by the C.L.E.O. in your area, if not he guaranteed they would check on it
Copies of any and all transactions, for tax records and for the ATF
You will have to pay S.O.T. tax:(anyone who holds an ffl has to including a C&R license,or unless keeping them for a private collection but there is other paperwork involved with that, at this point I heard tax and lost interest
when you do apply the ATF by law has to notify state and local agencies you are applying
expect a visit twice a year, the man on the phone said 1 visit should be enough,because there are more important things to do and criminals to go after, he said his shortest visit is around an hour longest taking two days to look for a gun where one digit of the serial number was left off the paper work
He also said there is corporate route, expect to hire an attorney and another round of laws you have to abide by

I felt this was too much hassle just to sell to friends and family
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 2:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 3:23:03 PM EDT by Fallschirmjager]

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Kitchen table and garage FFLs are highly discouraged by ATF who can merely sit on your application.  You need a business address, need to comply with all local zoning, have an Ohio corporate tax ID, etc.  Lots of hoops to jump thru especially with there are FFLs who will do all this for you for $10-$20.  Ridiculous FFL transfer fees?

ATF can, and will, inspect your place of business any time they want and your paperwork has to be letter perfect.  You need signs posted, handouts for customers, etc.  Someone to sign for all those packages, or do you expect your Mom to do this?  
 
-- Chuck



No, I expect your Mom to do that, right after she cleans my bathroom.

Yes, ridiculous FFL transfer fees, especially when anyone local to me charges $35-$50 bucks per, not $10-$20. When you buy more than a few firearms over the net each year that $50 fee ads up pretty quick, compared to the FFL fee, articles of incorporation, and what not.

Just because the ATF discourages something doesn't mean a squirt of piss to me. I just care if it's legal.

=================================================================

Predator,

Thanks for the info, that does sound like quite a hassle, but I have thought of becoming a dealer more than once, so maybe it could be a nice little side job, and I could cater to the "evil black rifle" crowd around here that everyone seems to overlook. One thing though, from what I've read the SOT only appears to be required if you are a Class 3 dealer. SOT info

After reading this I'd say I might actually look into this much more seriously. I wonder if I could get discounts ordering ammo in bulk, since I see this a lot. Might be another ROI compared to retail and allow me to shoot more often (and give good deals to friends).
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:29:49 PM EDT
Many hoops you will go thru I know I just got my FFL, dealing with ATF was not that bad at all, it was the city council, then took forever to get me State Tax ID number.
Have you I's dotted and T's crossed when you go thru the application process, also make sure you have a vault, they will come to your house or business to inspect before they think about giving you your license.
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