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Posted: 4/25/2008 12:16:01 PM EDT
This is an open challenge to all, there’s been a lot of smack talk going around on the forum So how about we put it to the test? and just as in real life no one will remember where your foot was as or who you trained with if you don’t win. For those of your who don’t know the maximum effective range of an excuse for not showing up is 0 meters!


July 20th 2008
The Impactzone Practical Challenge
3-gun, 3 event, Man on Man & Team Shoot Off
50% entry payout 100% Bragging rights
Catered BBQ
100% Payout side matches


3 events, Rifle, Shotgun, Handgun, $20 each, best 2 out of 3 runs in each event, winner & losers bracket Winners bracket pays 75% of the purse, loser bracket pays 25% of the purse, enter one or all three as well as side matches. Team Event 3-person one from each event 75% payout. All targets will be reactionary and no individual events will require more than 5 hit to win, all starting positions will be from the ready. Handguns limited to IPSC limited-10 & productions as well as IDPA legal ( no comps or optics) Shotgun start limited to 5 loaded,

For more information and updates contact Phil at theimpactzone@peoplepc.com or go to www.theimpactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 2:05:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2008 2:03:47 PM EDT by 1IV]
Hmmmmm

Ok. I will be there. Sounds good.
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 2:14:52 PM EDT
cleared the event with whom?
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 3:12:31 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By 1IV:
Have you cleared this event with them?

I didn't know Phil had a wife.
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 3:20:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylph:

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Have you cleared this event with them?

I didn't know Phil had a wife.



Not going there


Why not make it live and advance or die and be removed from the match?
I don't care who the best of the worst is. Make it WINNER take.all!
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 3:44:54 PM EDT
ill be there.
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 4:44:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
Why not make it live and advance or die and be removed from the match?
I don't care who the best of the worst is. Make it WINNER take.all!


Winner take all, big +1 to that!
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 5:05:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2008 5:27:55 PM EDT by theimpactzone]
Winner takes 75% 1st place loser takes 25% of the purse, side match winners take 100%

How about this the winner of the losers and the winner of the Winners can go man on man for the total purse if they chose too, A smart man picks his fights but sometimes a fight picks us. We want to keep this within reason, I don't want to see a guy tose out $20 and have his ass handed to him in 10 rounds without another chance to fight again and win, hence the winners/losers bracket. I don't see any reason there can't be side bet/challanges Not that I would ever stirr the pot or any thing ;-)


Who the hell knows by July my rental (wife's) may own the whole damn place but in till then lets tear it up.

Phil
www.theimipactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 4/25/2008 10:33:37 PM EDT
cant believe evveryone isnt jumping on this.

chance to put al that training to work.
Link Posted: 4/26/2008 12:37:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
cant believe evveryone isnt jumping on this.

chance to put al that training to work.




This will be interesting. Lets see if this generates as much interest as the MAST thread.
Link Posted: 4/26/2008 10:13:52 PM EDT
Sounds interesting, I'll be there.

Three weeks until I'm back in Texas. Any chance of the Tuesday USPSA matches restarting?
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 9:15:28 AM EDT
Will there be a category for best dressed?
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 9:25:53 AM EDT


Thats most tacticool justmike,

Jeilke the ipsc tuesday are done unless we get more intrest

Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 11:10:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
cant believe evveryone isnt jumping on this.

chance to put al that training to work.



Ammo prices dude!
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 11:22:42 AM EDT
excuses excuses timonator.

Link Posted: 4/27/2008 11:24:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
excuses excuses timonator.




You wokr the math, the last few 3gun matches I attended, the ammo counts were averaging 300+ 5.56, 100+ 12gauge, and 200 pistol.

You gonna sponsor me?

;)
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 12:49:27 PM EDT
I'm gonna make it even if my GF doesn't. Seems like theres a gunshow every time the WHIDPA guys have a 3 gun and I usually help the GF with the show.
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 1:07:31 PM EDT
Timanator Pick your best weapon system and run with it you don't have to shoot all 3. and what part of winning money is it you didn't understand?

The side challange matches are heating up.
I was just challanged by David Burton of MAST, He some how thinks the sky will part and devin intervention will give him that ability to out shoot me in a man on man challange. When I'm done with him I think I'll slap my brother around a little and then anyone elce who wants education can step right up and get schooled!

Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 2:13:07 PM EDT
Hey Phil

Any chance we can get a approx round count to complete the stages.
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 2:30:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:
all starting positions will be from the ready.


This cuts out the draw stroke for handgun. This action takes skill and I don't think it should be left out.
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 4:42:48 PM EDT
Hey there fellow shooters. I have never competed in a 3 gun match before but after reading the above post im kinda curious what its all about? im currently located here at fort hood and would love to compete. can someone tell me exactly what i need to get in on the fun. i own all three types of weapons but is there caliber restrictions and how much ammo is needed? im sorry im asking some ignorant questions but i have learned there is never a dumb question lol.
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 7:41:43 PM EDT
The reasons are several that I took out the draw

1. Drawing ain't shooting
2. The fastes draw is to start with it in you hand
3. When you hear bump in the night you don't search the house with your pistol in your holster do you? or leave it in your holster when you see a group of thugs aprouching your car?
4. To many differences in Holster design to make it a even contest of skill
5. Its a open to the public compatition and I don't know 1/2 the people skill level that will show up, over 50% of self inflicted GSW happen when drawing or reholstering a loaded weapon I'm not going to ask someone I don't know in a high stress game of speed to remembers Don't shoot yourself

Round count? more than 40 less than 200 I would hope it's a man on man shoot if you beat your adversary in the first 2 runs with no misses then 10 rounds if you continue to do this it and there are 10 people in the handgun event and you win each time you will shoot 40 rounds and walk away with $75 or 20 shooters 80 rounds and $150 or 30 shooters 120 rounds and a $225 purse
Now if you lose every time and only shoot 5 rounds per run you'll shoot 40 rounds and it cost you $20, but you get to watch some really good shots and different techniques used, and you can always challange a friend or anyonw that will except your challange pay $5 and win $8, do that all day and it will more than pay for your ammo


Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 4/28/2008 7:58:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Timanator:
Hey Phil

Any chance we can get a approx round count to complete the stages.


Weeze gonna takes ups a collekshun for Tim-AH-NADOR!
Link Posted: 4/28/2008 9:31:38 AM EDT
I'm in, Phil.

Link Posted: 4/28/2008 10:38:18 AM EDT
If my schedule allows I'll go. Work comes first.
Link Posted: 4/28/2008 10:55:27 AM EDT
Any restrictions (glass..dot...etc...) on long guns?

What about a 10 round mag in a 1911? ( I know it looks the ghey) but a couple extra rounds go a long ways.
Link Posted: 4/28/2008 1:00:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2008 1:01:51 PM EDT by Atomic_Lab_Rat]

Originally Posted By kyreb:
Any restrictions (glass..dot...etc...) on long guns?

What about a 10 round mag in a 1911? ( I know it looks the ghey) but a couple extra rounds go a long ways.


GHEY? If John Browning didn't design it then it probably Ghey . . . . unless it was designed by Eugene, Sullivan and/or Gaaston!



Link Posted: 4/28/2008 1:16:23 PM EDT
The weapon restriction are as follows

Rifle no restrictions
Shotgun restricted to starting loaded with 5 only
Handgun no optics or comps

I can say from expereince that it's the guy that doesnt' miss in the shortest amount of time is the one that wins these thngs, but hey when pushing the edge it's nice to have a few extra rounds.

Phil
www.theimpactzoneragne.com
Link Posted: 4/29/2008 1:00:54 PM EDT
I'll be there.
Link Posted: 4/29/2008 2:51:27 PM EDT
Don't anyone talk about handling Meat

Damned GunPedia! Photokirk should challenge whomever created the Gunpedia arfcom website
Link Posted: 4/29/2008 3:07:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2008 3:07:23 PM EDT by Atomic_Lab_Rat]

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:

www.theimpactzoneragne.com


Isn't it www.theimpactzonerange.com?

Just Sayin'!

Link Posted: 4/29/2008 5:28:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:
The reasons are several that I took out the draw

1. Drawing ain't shooting
2. The fastest draw is to start with it in you hand
3. When you hear bump in the night you don't search the house with your pistol in your holster do you? or leave it in your holster when you see a group of thugs aprouching your car?
4. To many differences in Holster design to make it a even contest of skill
5. Its a open to the public compatition and I don't know 1/2 the people skill level that will show up, over 50% of self inflicted GSW happen when drawing or reholstering a loaded weapon I'm not going to ask someone I don't know in a high stress game of speed to remembers Don't shoot yourself


All these reasons are lame. The draw is a fundamental part to being a good pistol shooter. And all the noobs at IDPA and USPSA matches draw from the holster with no ill effects.

Link Posted: 4/30/2008 9:07:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:
The reasons are several that I took out the draw

1. Drawing ain't shooting
2. The fastest draw is to start with it in you hand
3. When you hear bump in the night you don't search the house with your pistol in your holster do you? or leave it in your holster when you see a group of thugs aprouching your car?
4. To many differences in Holster design to make it a even contest of skill
5. Its a open to the public compatition and I don't know 1/2 the people skill level that will show up, over 50% of self inflicted GSW happen when drawing or reholstering a loaded weapon I'm not going to ask someone I don't know in a high stress game of speed to remembers Don't shoot yourself


All these reasons are lame. The draw is a fundamental part to being a good pistol shooter. And all the noobs at IDPA and USPSA matches draw from the holster with no ill effects.



I was kinda scratching my head on this one to.
Link Posted: 4/30/2008 9:15:31 AM EDT
Well is he wrong?

Do you wander around your home in the middle of the night, in your (GASP) underwear with a holstered pistol?

Do you disagree that it is faster to start from the low ready?

Does it really matter?

Is your attendence going to be based on this issue?

Just Askin'
Link Posted: 4/30/2008 9:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Atomic_Lab_Rat:
Well is he wrong?

Do you wander around your home in the middle of the night, in your (GASP) underwear with a holstered pistol?

Do you disagree that it is faster to start from the low ready?

Does it really matter?

Is your attendence going to be based on this issue?

Just Askin'


Safer is better, the question really; is it safe to draw at this competition? He is niether right or wrong. It is his best judgement. I would attend a "safe" match any day. Yes, I do wander around my house at night in my underwear with holstered pistol! It matters to the sponsor. Yes, it is faster to start from the low ready.
Link Posted: 4/30/2008 10:32:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2008 10:33:47 AM EDT by kyreb]

Originally Posted By Bishop3:

Originally Posted By Atomic_Lab_Rat:
Well is he wrong?

Do you wander around your home in the middle of the night, in your (GASP) underwear with a holstered pistol?

Do you disagree that it is faster to start from the low ready?

Does it really matter?

Is your attendence going to be based on this issue?

Just Askin'


Safer is better, the question really; is it safe to draw at this competition? He is niether right or wrong. It is his best judgement. I would attend a "safe" match any day. Yes, I do wander around my house at night in my underwear with holstered pistol! It matters to the sponsor. Yes, it is faster to start from the low ready.


Phil is (logically) taking the path of least resistance.
If you allow holsters, you have got to regulate them with rules the Rambos, whiners and gamers will always find fault with.
Couple of examples:
(1) You are going to get at least one tacticool dude drawing from a shoulder holster that retains the gun with the muzzle pointing backwards toward the RO and spectators. That can be full of FAIL.
(2) Also figure a IPSC style Ghostholster set up is going to give someone a heck of an advantage over people drawing from a rig you would carry on the street.
(3) If you have a draw, is it from concealment or not? You may then need to regulate proper CC garmets and rigs.
I believe this is supposed to be a fun shoot. If we are going to jump through a bunch of hoops and rules, just throw an IDPA match and be done with it.
My 2 cents. Rick


Link Posted: 4/30/2008 12:08:14 PM EDT
Schulze,

Fill me in on what part of the draw is a fundamental part of being a good pistol shooter? Because I have never seen a draw preformed in any NRA bulls-eye pistol match nor any Olympic International rapid-fire event ? Or even during the Second Chance Bowling Pin events of the 70‘s-80’s?

Yes I would agree that a good solid draw and presentation is a fundamental part of defensive pistol shooting or competition, But as I tried to point out and other have there is no way you could ever call it a level playing field if you allow a IPSC Spoon in a Tea Cup type holster to run against a drop leg, LEO Duty Rig or Inside the waist band holster in a event that will probably last less the 3.5 seconds.

Now I don’t have a problem with the side challenge’s being from the holster, if both are experienced working from the draw, I'll take that bet, I may not be as fast as I once was but I'm as fast once as I ever was Hell maybe even twice and thats all it would take,,, oh wait I still have to hit something don't I ?? I better think this over

Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 4/30/2008 12:21:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2008 12:22:31 PM EDT by hk940]

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:

...IPSC Spoon in a Tea Cup type holster to run against a drop leg, LEO Duty Rig...



hey Phil.
make mine a Yader Spoon, the 8-6."
Link Posted: 4/30/2008 4:31:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:
Schulze,

Fill me in on what part of the draw is a fundamental part of being a good pistol shooter? Because I have never seen a draw preformed in any NRA bulls-eye pistol match nor any Olympic International rapid-fire event ? Or even during the Second Chance Bowling Pin events of the 70‘s-80’s?

snip for length.


The last two events leave out this skill, and the bullseye match leaves out the skills of sight tracking and recoil recovery.

The draw is fundamental because it tests getting a consistent, proper grip. And what kind of grip you get by the time the first shot goes off is going to affect the recovery and split times of every subsequent shot. This is something unique to the pistol, and imho, should not be left out on a test of skill.

I'll go ahead and say it - I think I'm pretty darn good with my draw and I think I can beat a lot of you.

So there. The smack has been said, and the only way to resolve it will be going head to head at the match.

As for the holster issue, since you restricted pistol type to Production, SSP, and L10 classes, no one is going to bring anything fancier than a kydex OWB which are easy and cheap to obtain. Fancy holsters aren't even legal for those classes anyway.


Link Posted: 4/30/2008 8:15:15 PM EDT
But is you end up shooting agasint and IPSC racegun and sppon holster you canna' complain batman . . . . .
Link Posted: 4/30/2008 9:55:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
But is you end up shooting agasint and IPSC racegun and sppon holster you canna' complain batman . . . . .


Link Posted: 5/1/2008 9:52:27 AM EDT
No limited class guns? I am already protesting this event! If you can run a 17 round Glock, I should be able to run a 17 round STI Tactical.


Link Posted: 5/1/2008 3:31:01 PM EDT
Strick909,

No ports, no comps, no Optics on handguns, bring your limited gun as its only going to be a 5 shot run if you need 27 rounds your in deep trouble, 9mm or larger with a built in power factor the targets have to react to count! if you spin a plate sideways well then it sucks to be you!

Schulze I'll take that challange on a side match! i'll run a Comp-Tac holster and a 45 auto with factory ammo. I all so I take it from you statement about bullseye that you have never fired the 5 shots in 10 seconds 25 yard rabid fire event for score?(with a 45)

Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com
Link Posted: 5/2/2008 1:39:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:
Schulze I'll take that challange on a side match! i'll run a Comp-Tac holster and a 45 auto with factory ammo. I all so I take it from you statement about bullseye that you have never fired the 5 shots in 10 seconds 25 yard rabid fire event for score?(with a 45)

Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com


Nope, never done that one. And 10 seconds to fire 5 shots I'd hardly call stressful on shot recovery. All I have is a 9mm though.
Link Posted: 5/2/2008 2:02:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:
Schulze I'll take that challange on a side match! i'll run a Comp-Tac holster and a 45 auto with factory ammo. I all so I take it from you statement about bullseye that you have never fired the 5 shots in 10 seconds 25 yard rabid fire event for score?(with a 45)

Phil
www.theimpactzonerange.com


Nope, never done that one. And 10 seconds to fire 5 shots I'd hardly call stressful on shot recovery. All I have is a 9mm though.


1,000 quatloos on the newcomer.
Link Posted: 5/2/2008 6:26:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By theimpactzone:

...IPSC Spoon in a Tea Cup type holster to run against a drop leg, LEO Duty Rig...



hey Phil.
make mine a Yader Spoon, the 8-6."


Don't get off the boat dude.

As for the issue at hand, I do not care about the gamers or whatever. If I come out 5 seconds slower than someone, most of the time probably attributable to my use of real-world equipment as opposed to race equipment, so be it. Likewise, the rules the way they are is fine too, rather measure my shooting skills vs my drawing speed anyway.
Link Posted: 5/5/2008 2:24:12 PM EDT
I guess this means that you will be there?
Link Posted: 5/11/2008 11:40:12 AM EDT
Bump.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 6:56:28 PM EDT
BTT

Link Posted: 5/27/2008 7:23:23 PM EDT
Can I borrow some ammo?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 7:28:17 PM EDT
For you my friend . . . . of course!

I'll put a beneli in your hands for this one.
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