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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/12/2006 6:57:38 PM EDT

I was looking over Randy's draft of Practical Rifle rules and came across this:

9. Competitors shall carry all magazines and/or extra ammunition throughout the course of fire. Ammunition may not be placed on the ground, or on props. Refer to #3 ten second penalty.

http://www.practicalrifle.com/match_rules.htm
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:43:36 PM EDT
Thats understandable but randy needs to Clearlify that in as far as reloads go. IE can you drop an empty mag during a reload or do you need to place it back into your pouch.

Jess
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:49:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
Thats understandable but randy needs to Clearlify that in as far as reloads go. IE can you drop an empty mag during a reload or do you need to place it back into your pouch.

Jess



I was told this 2 years ago. That is why I started using a dump pouch. As there is no resupply for us in the real world. It's a good idea.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:55:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 7:55:37 PM EDT by TwoRavens]
Technically those are a only a draft of the rules. Nobody ever emailed me with suggestions, and I never got round to asking Randy to make them 'official'.

You can leave empty mags on the ground, but not ones with rnds remaining in them. Randy usually says this in the briefing.



/*
Phill
*/
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:59:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:04:27 PM EDT
Pistols are an exception, since we can't draw from holster, and have to leave it in the box etc....

But, yes, you only get the penalty if you leave a partially (or fully :)) loaded mad behind you.

/*
Phill
*/
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:07:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:09:03 PM EDT
Yup. That's partly why my mag carrier is a big oversized. It's built for 6 mags, but I usually stuff in 3 for most stages. While it's rare a stage takes more than two mags, that extra one is insurance in case of bad shooting and mag failure.

I still need to get a decent dump pouch.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:11:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Originally Posted By TwoRavens:
Pistols are an exception, since we can't draw from holster, and have to leave it in the box etc....

But, yes, you only get the penalty if you leave a partially (or fully :)) loaded mad behind you.

/*
Phill
*/



I understand that, but I did see folks laying thier extra mags in the box or on top before they started to shoot. Am I wrong by assuming that is what the rule is about?



That again is an exception to the rule only made for pistols. At least that was my understanding.

That same stage (4) also required that a mag be placed beside the rifle (on the white barrel) as written in the stage writeup.

Basically I think the intent of the rule is to not run around the stage beforehand and place mags at various locations. I.e. "gaming" reloads.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:07:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TwoRavens:
Pistols are an exception, since we can't draw from holster, and have to leave it in the box etc....



What?! I thought this was a "practical" match?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EKinOR:

Originally Posted By TwoRavens:
Pistols are an exception, since we can't draw from holster, and have to leave it in the box etc....



What?! I thought this was a "practical" match?



IPSC qualified guys can draw from holster. Rest of us have to use the box. Probably some safety thing.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:31:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 9:32:17 PM EDT by -RotorDemon-]

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By EKinOR:

Originally Posted By TwoRavens:
Pistols are an exception, since we can't draw from holster, and have to leave it in the box etc....



What?! I thought this was a "practical" match?



IPSC qualified guys can draw from holster. Rest of us have to use the box. Probably some safety thing.



Should still be able to draw from a holster (loaded) if you have a CHL or DD214. But thats just my blatently stupid opinion.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:57:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -RotorDemon-:

Should still be able to draw from a holster (loaded) if you have a CHL or DD214. But thats just my blatently stupid opinion.



TCGC insurance won't cover it. Thus, unless you take the IPSC safety course, no drawing from holster on TCGC property.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:43:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 10:50:50 PM EDT by TangoFoxtrot]
My understanding from how its been practiced is no loaded rifle magazines can be left behind. Sometimes unloaded rifle mags are okay to leave behind and sometimes not. Sometimes a stage states, “No equipment” can be left behind at a previous shooting position and sometimes it does not. Equipment = magazines.

Pistols and pistol magazines (loaded or not) are almost always left behind. I think the intent is to box the pistol quickly and safely so you can move on to the rifle. The pistol may be treated differently because it is unloaded and inspected by the RO before you are allowed to move. You are leaving your pistol behind for safety reasons, so I guess it’s not an issue that magazines stay behind with it.

Now back to:
9. Competitors shall carry all magazines and/or extra ammunition throughout the course of fire. Ammunition may not be placed on the ground, or on props. Refer to #3 ten second penalty.

I think this means you would have to carry all the ammunition you plan on using for the match on your person the entire match. No going to your car for more ammo, no carrying around an ammo can or range bag stage to stage (unless you also carry it with you while you are shooting).
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:54:25 PM EDT
yeah - no staging shit down range.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:02:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
yeah - no staging shit down range.




I was thinking of pre-positioning snacks, soft drinks and maybe even lunch.

I wonder if Randy came up with this idea a few years ago when people were bringing those big tactical red ryder wagons to carry all their gear. Those all disappeared when their “buddies” kept throwing their own gear on board and weighed them down.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:54:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
Now back to:
9. Competitors shall carry all magazines and/or extra ammunition throughout the course of fire. Ammunition may not be placed on the ground, or on props. Refer to #3 ten second penalty.

I think this means you would have to carry all the ammunition you plan on using for the match on your person the entire match. No going to your car for more ammo, no carrying around an ammo can or range bag stage to stage (unless you also carry it with you while you are shooting).



But that's "course of fire" which I take to mean "each stage".

However, that is an interesting idea about carrying your "combat load" with you. I normally end up bringing WAY too much ammo and toting it around in an old gym back with my snacks/lunch.

Interesting ideas. The more ammo you waste on the first stage, may make you run out on the last stage. Or if you want all the extra ammo, you've got an extra 10 pounds strapped to you.

It'd also make the .308 guys start thinking about .223....maybe....they're fanatics I heard....
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:54:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 8:26:13 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:

Originally Posted By GackMan:
yeah - no staging shit down range.




I was thinking of pre-positioning snacks, soft drinks and maybe even lunch.

I wonder if Randy came up with this idea a few years ago when people were bringing those big tactical red ryder wagons to carry all their gear. Those all disappeared when their “buddies” kept throwing their own gear on board and weighed them down.



While I agree, its not that hard to understand how its gotten this way. Part of it is Randy just running out of ideas. He has mentioned it several times and has asked for suggestions. The other thing is safety.

We do not have a quilification to go through prior to shooting. SO we are limited to the way we can operate. For example on the pistol stage this last match. The only other option would have been to shoot and clear and case the rifle and grab both rifle and pistol , move to the other spot and then uncase, load and fire all under the clock. Thats alot of people fucking around with their weapons while trying to hurry. Now with a cert of some kind, You could run that stage as per the rules. Load your pistol, and holster. Load rifle but not chamber it and sling it to your front or back. Engage pistol targets, clear drop hammer and reholster and move to the rifle stage and engage targets with rifle.

Anyway, thats how I see it.
CH
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:54:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:
But that's "course of fire" which I take to mean "each stage".



I think you are right!

Carry on
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:04:51 AM EDT
The Way i read that rule is that You cannot Pre-arrange ammo locations and pick them up during course of fire.. So that All AMMO MAGAZINES are carried on the person during his/her turn in that stage. IE.. no running back to your Range bag because you left a magazine in there. I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:35:25 AM EDT
If I want to leave ammo and mags on the ground...should be my choice.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:30:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
If I want to leave ammo and mags on the ground...should be my choice.



It is. Just prepare for the consequences.

Besides, are all those UNLOADED mags in your WAASATCH still to heavy, Precious?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:35:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 11:37:31 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
If I want to leave ammo and mags on the ground...should be my choice.



It is. Just prepare for the consequences.

Besides, are all those UNLOADED mags in your WAASATCH still to heavy, Precious?



I wore my vest a few months ago with all the ammo I needed for the enitre match. It really was not that bad. Might try it again shooting a 308 and see what its like.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:52:47 AM EDT
At the moment my rig needs a little polish, but this last match it was a good setup.. the weight of the mags dident bother me at all..*not so with the previous Leather Belt setup* and once everything would be said and done i would be quite happy with the way things are going.

as an AK guy *perhaps not for long with ammo like it is* it becomes a real PITA to carry any more then 4 mags or so on you.. the AR guys have it sooo easy when it comes to ammo weight..
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 12:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
the AR guys have it sooo easy when it comes to ammo weight..



i think the military did a study on that in the... uh... late 50s.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 12:03:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
At the moment my rig needs a little polish, but this last match it was a good setup.. the weight of the mags dident bother me at all..*not so with the previous Leather Belt setup* and once everything would be said and done i would be quite happy with the way things are going.

as an AK guy *perhaps not for long with ammo like it is* it becomes a real PITA to carry any more then 4 mags or so on you.. the AR guys have it sooo easy when it comes to ammo weight..



Try loosing the ninja sword
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 12:07:15 PM EDT
"SECURITY!!!!!!"



Link Posted: 3/13/2006 12:15:12 PM EDT

I've carried all the .308 ammo I needed fine and usually have a bunch left over. It is heavy, but there is no need for more than 200 rounds. I usually carried 150-200+ with no problems. It gets much lighter as the day wears on too.

This match shooting .223 I only used three of my magazines and didn't load at all during the match. Low round count stages like stage 2 were very helpful for conserving ammo. In fact they were all pretty low round count stages this time around, other than the pistol. I can't remember shooting the pistol so much at PR before. Even that was only 15 rds and only that because I missed a few shots.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 4:14:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By Anarx:
At the moment my rig needs a little polish, but this last match it was a good setup.. the weight of the mags dident bother me at all..*not so with the previous Leather Belt setup* and once everything would be said and done i would be quite happy with the way things are going.

as an AK guy *perhaps not for long with ammo like it is* it becomes a real PITA to carry any more then 4 mags or so on you.. the AR guys have it sooo easy when it comes to ammo weight..



Try loosing the ninja sword



He'll probably replace it with a William Wallace Claymore...
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By Anarx:
At the moment my rig needs a little polish, but this last match it was a good setup.. the weight of the mags dident bother me at all..*not so with the previous Leather Belt setup* and once everything would be said and done i would be quite happy with the way things are going.

as an AK guy *perhaps not for long with ammo like it is* it becomes a real PITA to carry any more then 4 mags or so on you.. the AR guys have it sooo easy when it comes to ammo weight..



Try loosing the ninja sword



He'll probably replace it with a William Wallace Claymore...



DONT!! Temp me....

So i have to ask... +1 for security over HL2???
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:04:02 PM EDT
I got a Bat'leth if anyone wants to pack the damn thing around

lol

hippie.gif
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:49:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Slaxxor:
I got a Bat'leth if anyone wants to pack the damn thing around

lol




Only if it's a good day to die.
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