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Posted: 1/30/2006 6:00:10 AM EDT
Next guy that picked it up damn near lost his foot.

Watch out for stupid Rabbit tricks.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:13:45 AM EDT
Those are the things you learn from and you'll be more careful next time. What scares me are the dim wits who go through life never giving their mistakes a second thought.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:18:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
Those are the things you learn from and you'll be more careful next time. What scares me are the dim wits who go through life never giving their mistakes a second thought.



Have no fear, I'll never forget it. I feel like shit after I handed them an unsafe weapon.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:34:08 AM EDT
That sounds to me like someone forgot to keep his finger out of the trigger well and failed to properly check if his firearm was loaded, not that a bunny forgot to clear his firearm.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:44:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:51:33 AM EDT by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By voilsb:
That sounds to me like someone forgot to keep his finger out of the trigger well and failed to properly check if his firearm was loaded, not that a bunny forgot to clear his firearm.



I would agree with you if we had equal training, but that is not the case. I should have indoctrinated him, but instead I lowered my standards.


Let me rephrase this. It was very badly written.

We both should have followed proper discipline. I relyed on him and he relyed on me to do the right thing, rather than just doing it ourselves, which led to the problem.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:27:14 AM EDT
Anytime a firearm transfers hands weather loaded or not. Both parties need to practice 100% safety at all times.

Anytime you are knowingly handing an armed & ready firearm to another individual .... it is your responsibility to ensure that the recieving party is perfectly aware of the ready to fire status of the weapon and that the muzzle is always pointed downrange during the actuall handing over.

I allowed one of the 2 'non Arfcommer's' that were at the Sunday GF shoot to fire a full mag out of my AR-15.

Had never seen nor met the fella before and he seemed intersted in shooting it so I offered.

I invited him up to the line, inserted the mag for him / chambered the round / placed the safety on and handed it to him with the muzzle pointed down range the whole time. My precaution and extra attention to safety may have insulted a more experienced AR-15 shooter ( as it turned out he did not own one - was a non Arfcommer / I had no idea at the time ) who would have been completely able to charge & ready the weapon on his own.

Never become complacent around guns, especially when:

1. Handing one to someone else
2. Loading - unloading it
3. removing it from your carrying case
4. picking one up that you did not set there yourself
5. have a failure w/ the weapon that requires further inspection to clear / eject etc
6. When in doubt ...... ALWAYS error on the side of CAUTION

Was nice to meet all of you @ the GF shoot.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:37:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:10:42 AM EDT by LawTalkingGuy]
The negligent discharge was my fault. When Bunny removed the mag and brought it back off the line I didn't check it. I should have and I do know better. Bunny and I have been out shooting a number of times over the years.

As for the trigger, I was carrying it back to the line, muzzle down and had the weapon by the front of the trigger guard. It is an underfolder AK and the stock was folded. The mags were in my other hand. It slipped and my finger contacted the trigger and the weapon fired, putting the round in the ground next to my foot.

Fortunately no one was harmed, other than some dirt and rock that sprayed around and some frayed nerves.

But, it was still something that should not of happened at all. I must say it really shook me up, as safety is something I have always been really fanatic about in the past. I have never had anything like that happen before, and it will not happen again. Lesson relearned, with emphasis.

ETA: Evidently I have some muscle memory issues that I was not aware, but were pointed out to me by IM. Some reinforcement and relearning is obviously necessary to make knowledge and use match up.

I am truly sorry for what happened and wish to apologize to all that attended.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:54:18 AM EDT
This stuff is just too important not to take the opportunity to use the experience to prove that shit does indeed happen.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:05:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
This stuff is just too important not to take the opportunity to use the experience to prove that shit does indeed happen.



A big +1

Although surely a bore to read and redundant as anything you'll ever see .... that was the purpose of my above safety tutorial.

Takes a big man to own up to a mistake amongst his peers.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:48:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
The negligent discharge was my fault. When Bunny removed the mag and brought it back off the line I didn't check it. I should have and I do know better. Bunny and I have been out shooting a number of times over the years.

As for the trigger, I was carrying it back to the line, muzzle down and had the weapon by the front of the trigger guard. It is an underfolder AK and the stock was folded. The mags were in my other hand. It slipped and my finger contacted the trigger and the weapon fired, putting the round in the ground next to my foot.

Fortunately no one was harmed, other than some dirt and rock that sprayed around and some frayed nerves.

But, it was still something that should not of happened at all. I must say it really shook me up, as safety is something I have always been really fanatic about in the past. I have never had anything like that happen before, and it will not happen again. Lesson relearned, with emphasis.

ETA: Evidently I have some muscle memory issues that I was not aware, but were pointed out to me by IM. Some reinforcement and relearning is obviously necessary to make knowledge and use match up.

I am truly sorry for what happened and wish to apologize to all that attended.




Need a lawyer?

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:52:02 AM EDT
Gibby - fortunately no. Almost needed a cardiac specialist. Think I'll give everybody a break and stick to shooting by myself or with Bunny. See you all at the shows.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:55:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By voilsb:
That sounds to me like someone forgot to keep his finger out of the trigger well and failed to properly check if his firearm was loaded, not that a bunny forgot to clear his firearm.



So young, so far away, so correct.




1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.







Im only grateful I wasnt shot yesterday. As the spray and splatter of the rocks hit me I knew I was shot. I Was thinking, damn, that didnt feel so bad afterall.

While I think there is more than enough blame to go around, the actual actor with finger plus trigger is one person. We all need to strongly promote and practice weapons staying up on the line throughout the shoot, and reenforcing muzzle control. We are our brothers keeper and we all have much to gain and lose from insuring safe weapons handling.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:00:11 AM EDT
We honestly had two different screw ups. and both were everyones fault.

I think this would be a great time to have a little review, There were some good lessons yesterday. Im very happy to see that they are being reviewed today, and everyone has had a chance to calm down a little and think about it.


Rule # 1

Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

Unloaded guns cause the more accidents than loaded ones. Always treat all guns as if they are loaded.

Rule # 2

Never let the muzzle of a gun point at anything you do not want to destroy or kill.

This rule is especially important for those supervising novice shooters. When a child holds a rifle for example, if he hears a noise to the side, and turns his head, the weapon tends to follow. Similarly, if you make a great shot, and look back to brag to your friends, don't let the weapon follow your gaze.

Rule # 3

Keep your finger straight and off the trigger.

At all times you must keep your trigger finger straight, and off the trigger. Only once you have aimed and have your target in the sights should you permit your finger to gently rest on the trigger. This prevents accidental discharges should you stumble, trip, or be subjected to some unexpected event.

Rule # 4

Be absolutely sure
of your target, and
what is behind it.

Hitting a target even under the best conditions is a very challenging thing. If TV and movies were real, the good guys would kill far more innocent bystanders than bad guys. Bullets tends to miss, ricochet, penetrate through, and fall from the sky at velocities just as deadly as when the bullet left the barrel. If your bullet misses that deer or shoots over the top of that hill, you can't bring it back.

Dead is a forever deal. Once a bullet leaves the muzzle, you can't bring it back. You must read, and follow these rules ALWAYS!


And Mr Voiles, Bottom line I agree with your post 100%

We had a situation where there is lots to learn, I hope that EVERYONE learned something.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:06:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
Gibby - fortunately no. Almost needed a cardiac specialist. Think I'll give everybody a break and stick to shooting by myself or with Bunny. See you all at the shows.



You are always welcome.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:19:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 11:28:50 AM EDT by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
Gibby - fortunately no. Almost needed a cardiac specialist. Think I'll give everybody a break and stick to shooting by myself or with Bunny. See you all at the shows.



No way, dude, I want witnesses, and shooting alone is dangerous.



The battle for our rights and our way of life is a constant one. We're all soldiers in this war. Shit happens. We need to get over this and move on. We need everybody sticking together.

The solution is more training and self-discipline, not isolation. We need to keep an eye out for each other.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:31:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
Gibby - fortunately no. Almost needed a cardiac specialist. Think I'll give everybody a break and stick to shooting by myself or with Bunny. See you all at the shows.



No way, dude, I want witnesses, and shooting alone is dangerous.



The battle for our rights and our way of life is a constant one. We're all soldiers in this war. Shit happens. We need to get over this and move on. We need everybody sticking together.

The solution is more training and self-discipline, not isolation. We need to keep an eye out for each other.



Couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:34:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

The battle for our rights and our way of life is a constant one. We're all soldiers in this war. Shit happens. We need to get over this and move on. We need everybody sticking together.



+87
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:35:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
Gibby - fortunately no. Almost needed a cardiac specialist. Think I'll give everybody a break and stick to shooting by myself or with Bunny. See you all at the shows.



You are more than welcome to shoot with me anytime. Learning from a mistake like this makes you all the more a safer shooter in the future.

I have had three accidents that I remember in the last 25 years of shooting. Two of them I was pointing in a safe direction to test or put the hammer down on a 1911 once shot the car door from the inside out window down & glass broke & and once shot my water bed when I was 18 The other I had a Remington M12 pump 22rimfire. I opened the action looked at the chamber it was clear. But when I closed it, it chambered a round I did not see from the tube feed. I handed it to a friend and he shot a hole through my ceiling. So sometimes even if you check to see if its clear it might not be clear!!!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:54:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:59:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Next guy that picked it up damn near lost his foot.

Watch out for stupid Rabbit tricks.



Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!!


Sorry, had to say it.
Glad no one was hurt!!

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:21:39 PM EDT
Scared the living crap out of me, CavVet and that poor guy to the left of CavVet.
I honestly thought that the AK had kaboomed, I looked for the Bugs Bunny barrel, I looked for the blown apart AK mag and all I saw was CavVet and the other guy looking at the AK with a look of shock, horror and confusion, with a little tossed in.

When it finally registered in my mind that there had been a ND my heart sunk and I got that funny feeling you get when someone kicks you in the nuts.
I was at the most 5 feet away from contact point and I was showered by rocks and dirt.

That was the whitest I have ever seen CavVet looking, and I am not kidding.
His hands were still shaking 5 minutes after it happened.

Only one thing was missing from the evolution, CavVet knows what it is and neither of us asked for one and it was not offered.....
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:10:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Only one thing was missing from the evolution, CavVet knows what it is and neither of us asked for one and it was not offered.....



I hope you're not talking about accepting responsibiliy and apologizing. That was done both yesterday and earlier in the thread.

May I offer my own apologies for setting up this incident with my own carelessness?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:25:01 PM EDT
Reading this post kinda discourages me from going to any of the shoots. Not because im scared of something like this happening but because it seems some of the members that are posting keep dragging it on.

Safety is top priority, and obviously the guy made a huge mistake. Luckily nobody was hurt. Lessons were learned. Egos were bruised. And appoligizes were given. I really just dont get why especially KA3B needs to post about his "traumatic experience" and make the guy feel worse about what happened. He already talked about maybe starting to shoot only with bunny or by himself. Why dont you just let it go.

ACCIDENTS HAPPEN TO EVERYONE..........YOU LEARN FROM IT!

Seriously though, if i ever did have the chance to go to a shoot....because of this type of response to an accident and a post probably intended for awarness more than anything else. I would more than likely not bring any firearms and just watch. Not because im unsafe but because i'd feel so "under the microscope" .



Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:42:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:54:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Reading this post kinda discourages me from going to any of the shoots. Not because im scared of something like this happening but because it seems some of the members that are posting keep dragging it on.



You need to cowboy up and come to a shoot so you know what you are talking about. Its not being drug out, this is an after action review. There is a major difference.


Safety is top priority, and obviously the guy made a huge mistake. Luckily nobody was hurt. Lessons were learned. Egos were bruised. And appoligizes were given. I really just dont get why especially KA3B needs to post about his "traumatic experience" and make the guy feel worse about what happened. He already talked about maybe starting to shoot only with bunny or by himself. Why dont you just let it go.



He posted from his first person point of view, as did I, Bunny and LTG.



ACCIDENTS HAPPEN TO EVERYONE..........YOU LEARN FROM IT!


First thing you have posted I agree with.



Seriously though, if i ever did have the chance to go to a shoot....because of this type of response to an accident and a post probably intended for awarness more than anything else. I would more than likely not bring any firearms and just watch. Not because im unsafe but because i'd feel so "under the microscope" .


That would help insure your alienation from the group imho. We take in any and all shooter's. We have as a group taken in gangbangers, kids and Clampetts. If you dont have any firearms you are a spectator and will be at arms length with constant hesitation.


As your post was from the outside looking in, I trust you realize you have no realistic perspective on anyone who was there's opinions and comments. I hope you do come, but thats your decision. Yesterday was really a fucked up thing. I do think he probably learned from it. I dont think anyone in this thread is out to make him feel bad or be brutal, but the total event review and lessons need discussed.

I think KA3B's comment yesterday was the most accurate way to help eliminate yesterdays accident negligence. All firearms need to remain on the line during shooting, and not be casually brought back to the rear area.


Shit happens and we all make mistakes. I trust we all take an active role insuring they are not repeated.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:59:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Reading this post kinda discourages me from going to any of the shoots. Not because im scared of something like this happening but because it seems some of the members that are posting keep dragging it on.

Safety is top priority, and obviously the guy made a huge mistake. Luckily nobody was hurt. Lessons were learned. Egos were bruised. And appoligizes were given. I really just dont get why especially KA3B needs to post about his "traumatic experience" and make the guy feel worse about what happened. He already talked about maybe starting to shoot only with bunny or by himself. Why dont you just let it go.

ACCIDENTS HAPPEN TO EVERYONE..........YOU LEARN FROM IT!

Seriously though, if i ever did have the chance to go to a shoot....because of this type of response to an accident and a post probably intended for awarness more than anything else. I would more than likely not bring any firearms and just watch. Not because im unsafe but because i'd feel so "under the microscope" .






Adding to what OdT said above.

Your new to this group. There is a dynamic that operates in this group that is very much a familial relationship. This isn't piling on as it may appear. And there is no "under the microscope" at a shoot. Part of the reason for some of the dismay and hand wringing that appears to be going on. This is a very safe group of shooters. You will get it called to your attention if someone sees you doing something they think is unsafe. I can say I've been yelled at for having a loaded mag in a safed weapon with the bolt locked back while standing behind the line. Not a dangerous situation but also not the best thing to be doing with so many shooters on the line. This group will always err on the side of being safe.

A mistake was made, reasons for it and reactions are being given. I've packed up and left public ranges with an active ranger master for far less than this. And seen things almost as bad happen at said public ranges with nary a comment from anyone. I for one appreciate the sharing of this episode. And knowing some of the players and hearing their reactions makes this a better learning experience for me.

Besides, no sheep were injured so its all good.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:01:54 PM EDT
Right and i understand what you are saying.....But seriously, you already know that "Da_Bunny" and "LawTalkingGuy" are both feeling pretty embarrassed about the whole situation and feeling real bad. Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident. I think when you get half way through the page you realize that they acknowledge what they did and how HUGE of a mistake it was, they apologized to everyone that was there and even had the balls to actually post about the incident in the first place, to make everyone aware and educate people.

I dont personally know any of the members off of this site, and this post really makes me re-think the impression i got from other members that WHTF was in fact a small family. Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:


Only one thing was missing from the evolution, CavVet knows what it is and neither of us asked for one and it was not offered.....


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:04:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident.



Facts entered into evidence to properly parse mistakes to prevent future occurances.




Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:






Now who is dragging it out? We were all on one side of this and you are coming in with a division?




Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:14:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:22:31 PM EDT by Justin03R6]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

The battle for our rights and our way of life is a constant one. We're all soldiers in this war. Shit happens. We need to get over this and move on. We need everybody sticking together.

The solution is more training and self-discipline, not isolation. We need to keep an eye out for each other.



+eleventybillion

We are usually a very safety conscious bunch. this incident was unfortunate, but luckily nobody was hurt and we were all reminded why trigger safety and muzzle direction are so important. It could have been much worse.

The safety lessons I've been teaching Chandler definitely took on real world meaning for him yesterday. He saw what can happen when a mistake is made. Regardless of who did or didn't do what, Chandler learned a very valuable lesson and he'll be a safer shooter because of it. So there is something positive to come out of this.

I too made a mistake yesterday. I had a gun in hand during a "range cold" condition and was called on it.
I'm glad that we all watch out for each other. It's one of the reasons I feel it's safe enough to bring my kids to these shoots.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:18:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Right and i understand what you are saying.....But seriously, you already know that "Da_Bunny" and "LawTalkingGuy" are both feeling pretty embarrassed about the whole situation and feeling real bad. Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident. I think when you get half way through the page you realize that they acknowledge what they did and how HUGE of a mistake it was, they apologized to everyone that was there and even had the balls to actually post about the incident in the first place, to make everyone aware and educate people.

I dont personally know any of the members off of this site, and this post really makes me re-think the impression i got from other members that WHTF was in fact a small family. Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:





I'll say that you don't know us vewey well.....Get to know us, and you'll understand the angle this is all coming from. As CavVet said, we are all family here, more than any hometown forum on this board. We are upfront and honest with eachother about "incidents" that have happened. We then learn from them, and then give un-ending shit to the person for the rest of their natural born life (just ask Tweak). But it is all in the scope of teaching,learning, and making things safer for future shoots.

I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:19:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:


Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:






Now who is dragging it out? We were all on one side of this and you are coming in with a division?







Im just curious to see if he was talking about an apology. And if thats the case then i'll shut up.


[quoteyou werent there yesterday, i was the closest one to actually getting shot.,

i dont know what your point is by trying to flame the 2nd closest guy top getting shot, nor your point of trying to pit two people who shoot together all the time against each other, but i hope you got nomex if you are going to keep this up, cuz you are going to get flamed.

Im not trying to flame anyone, im just discouraged by this situation to be apart of shoots and even activities, if this is what happens. Im not trying to pit two people either, like you said im an outsider looking in. I didnt know that im supposed to just shut up and not voice an opinion or feeling because i haven't gone to a shoot or met anyone. As an "Outsider" looking in, all im saying is that its DISCOURAGING. A lot of people that may have gotten their first AR and maybe even first firearm might be a little worried to come out and seek help.

Im not worried about getting "flammed" on the internet.....im a big boy, its not going to hurt my feelings.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:20:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.







Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:24:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Im not worried about getting "flammed" on the internet.....im a big boy, its not going to hurt my feelings.



Well, you need to come out and meet us in person, you find the best group of guys(and gals) on the planet to hang out with. Your mind will change as soon as you find out it's all CavVet's Fault spend more than 20 minutes with us. Soon you'll be organizing weekly get togethers at your local pub!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:25:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.








The entire purpose of this thread. Thank you for getting the point.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:27:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Right and i understand what you are saying.....But seriously, you already know that "Da_Bunny" and "LawTalkingGuy" are both feeling pretty embarrassed about the whole situation and feeling real bad. Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident. I think when you get half way through the page you realize that they acknowledge what they did and how HUGE of a mistake it was, they apologized to everyone that was there and even had the balls to actually post about the incident in the first place, to make everyone aware and educate people.

I dont personally know any of the members off of this site, and this post really makes me re-think the impression i got from other members that WHTF was in fact a small family. Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:





I'll say that you don't know us vewey well.....Get to know us, and you'll understand the angle this is all coming from. As CavVet said, we are all family here, more than any hometown forum on this board. We are upfront and honest with eachother about "incidents" that have happened. We then learn from them, and then give un-ending shit to the person for the rest of their natural born life (just ask Tweak). But it is all in the scope of teaching,learning, and making things safer for future shoots.

I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.



And no doubt have i learned from this either...I also will pay closer attention.
Im sure that if i did know some of you, i may have no reacted like this but my point is: How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with? Thats all. And i think if some of you take a step back and think about when you first started out, and if had you read this what you reaction might have been. I dont think thats anything worth "Flamming" but hey if it makes your day better to go home to the wife and say "Hey honey i totally flammed this guy on AR15.com today" than more power to ya!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:28:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.








The entire purpose of this thread. Thank you for getting the point.



Well, I figured the "perpetrators" would not bring it up on the internet if they did not want it discussed on the internet.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:29:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Im just curious to see if he was talking about an apology.



He was. I didnt hear one and neither did he. Bunny did.


And if thats the case then i'll shut up.






Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Right and i understand what you are saying.....But seriously, you already know that "Da_Bunny" and "LawTalkingGuy" are both feeling pretty embarrassed about the whole situation and feeling real bad. Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident. I think when you get half way through the page you realize that they acknowledge what they did and how HUGE of a mistake it was, they apologized to everyone that was there and even had the balls to actually post about the incident in the first place, to make everyone aware and educate people.

I dont personally know any of the members off of this site, and this post really makes me re-think the impression i got from other members that WHTF was in fact a small family. Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:





I'll say that you don't know us vewey well.....Get to know us, and you'll understand the angle this is all coming from. As CavVet said, we are all family here, more than any hometown forum on this board. We are upfront and honest with eachother about "incidents" that have happened. We then learn from them, and then give un-ending shit to the person for the rest of their natural born life (just ask Tweak). But it is all in the scope of teaching,learning, and making things safer for future shoots.

I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.



And no doubt have i learned from this either...I also will pay closer attention.
Im sure that if i did know some of you, i may have no reacted like this but my point is: How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with? Thats all. And i think if some of you take a step back and think about when you first started out, and if had you read this what you reaction might have been. I dont think thats anything worth "Flamming" but hey if it makes your day better to go home to the wife and say "Hey honey i totally flammed this guy on AR15.com today" than more power to ya!




The part you are missing is that everyone that has posted in this thread (except you) knows the people in question, in person. Now that you know this, it should be easier to accept the discussion for what it is.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:32:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:51:12 PM EDT by Justin03R6]

Originally posted by BlackLex:

How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with?



As a relatively "new guy," I can answer this. I have found that WA HTF members are very easy to approach, and will quickly make you feel welcome, and a part of the "established group."

Personally, I think that YOU are making a bigger issue of this than those actually involved.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with?



[new guy] These guys take safety very serious and thats a good thing and I want to shoot with them. I am human and may fuck up, if I do they will hopefully catch me at that time, and if I dont we will have a review of the incident parsed, reaffirm the whats, whys and hows, and have another safer shoot the next time.[/]

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:39:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Right and i understand what you are saying.....But seriously, you already know that "Da_Bunny" and "LawTalkingGuy" are both feeling pretty embarrassed about the whole situation and feeling real bad. Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident. I think when you get half way through the page you realize that they acknowledge what they did and how HUGE of a mistake it was, they apologized to everyone that was there and even had the balls to actually post about the incident in the first place, to make everyone aware and educate people.

I dont personally know any of the members off of this site, and this post really makes me re-think the impression i got from other members that WHTF was in fact a small family. Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:





I'll say that you don't know us vewey well.....Get to know us, and you'll understand the angle this is all coming from. As CavVet said, we are all family here, more than any hometown forum on this board. We are upfront and honest with eachother about "incidents" that have happened. We then learn from them, and then give un-ending shit to the person for the rest of their natural born life (just ask Tweak). But it is all in the scope of teaching,learning, and making things safer for future shoots.

I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.



And no doubt have i learned from this either...I also will pay closer attention.
Im sure that if i did know some of you, i may have no reacted like this but my point is: How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with? Thats all. And i think if some of you take a step back and think about when you first started out, and if had you read this what you reaction might have been. I dont think thats anything worth "Flamming" but hey if it makes your day better to go home to the wife and say "Hey honey i totally flammed this guy on AR15.com today" than more power to ya!




The part you are missing is that everyone that has posted in this thread (except you) knows the people in question, in person. Now that you know this, it should be easier to accept the discussion for what it is.



I could be wrong here.....But it may be wise to actually read through the post rather than skim it because you might miss out on some information that had you read, might change what you reply with. But to mean, a college educated person it doesnt appear that im missing the part that "Everyone that has posted in this thread knows the people in question" looks to me like i've admited that. If you have any questions read the RED
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:41:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with? Thats all.



I would say they seem to show a willingness to do a good job of looking after, and Policing their own...


If you dont see it that way, in a Sport that can kill you dead for a mistake.

Maybe you should stick to knitting.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:43:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Right and i understand what you are saying.....But seriously, you already know that "Da_Bunny" and "LawTalkingGuy" are both feeling pretty embarrassed about the whole situation and feeling real bad. Do you really think its necessary for other members to post about the actual "blow by blow" details of the incident. I think when you get half way through the page you realize that they acknowledge what they did and how HUGE of a mistake it was, they apologized to everyone that was there and even had the balls to actually post about the incident in the first place, to make everyone aware and educate people.

I dont personally know any of the members off of this site, and this post really makes me re-think the impression i got from other members that WHTF was in fact a small family. Im really curious to see the reply to Da_Bunny from KA3B, regarding:





I'll say that you don't know us vewey well.....Get to know us, and you'll understand the angle this is all coming from. As CavVet said, we are all family here, more than any hometown forum on this board. We are upfront and honest with eachother about "incidents" that have happened. We then learn from them, and then give un-ending shit to the person for the rest of their natural born life (just ask Tweak). But it is all in the scope of teaching,learning, and making things safer for future shoots.

I wasn't there, but after reading this, and the reactions of others that were there, I can tell you that I will pay closer attention to myself when handing or handling firearms.



And no doubt have i learned from this either...I also will pay closer attention.
Im sure that if i did know some of you, i may have no reacted like this but my point is: How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with? Thats all. And i think if some of you take a step back and think about when you first started out, and if had you read this what you reaction might have been. I dont think thats anything worth "Flamming" but hey if it makes your day better to go home to the wife and say "Hey honey i totally flammed this guy on AR15.com today" than more power to ya!




The part you are missing is that everyone that has posted in this thread (except you) knows the people in question, in person. Now that you know this, it should be easier to accept the discussion for what it is.



I could be wrong here.....But it may be wise to actually read through the post rather than skim it because you might miss out on some information that had you read, might change what you reply with. But to mean, a college educated person it doesnt appear that im missing the part that "Everyone that has posted in this thread knows the people in question" looks to me like i've admited that. If you have any questions read the RED



Just re-asserting for ya. I guess I don't know where the argument is....So, the next LCR is in april, Magoo's is this thursday, a Bahama Breeze should be coming up, and the North end guys like to shoot at Granite Falls at least 13 times a week, pick one, show up, have fun, and most of all....Welcome to the board!

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:44:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:47:27 PM EDT by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with? Thats all.



I would say they seem to show a willingness to do a good job of looking after, and Policing their own...


If you dont see it that way, in a Sport that can kill you dead for a mistake.

Maybe you should stick to knitting.



Delicately put, as usual....

LTG does not shirk his responsibilites. He knows what the score is.

As I put it to him in my own delicate way, "That will teach you to trust me, moron."
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:45:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
I could be wrong here.....But it may be wise to actually read through the post rather than skim it because you might miss out on some information that had you read, might change what you reply with. But to mean, a college educated person it doesnt appear that im missing the part that "Everyone that has posted in this thread knows the people in question" looks to me like i've admited that. If you have any questions read the RED



I see you've been reading again.....



Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:46:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with?



[new guy] These guys take safety very serious and thats a good thing and I want to shoot with them. I am human and may fuck up, if I do they will hopefully catch me at that time, and if I dont we will have a review of the incident parsed, reaffirm the whats, whys and hows, and have another safer shoot the next time.[/]




{New Guy} Wow these guys really take safety very serious and have way more experience with firearms than i do. I'm a little nervous because i dont know any of them and im just showing up to this site of the shoot. I know i am human and i may fuck up, god forbid, but after reading that post if i fuck up im going to be feeling like shit cause i know what i have to look forward to next time i log onto AR15.com. It would probably be the last group shoot i go to also, seeing as how i'd be embarrassed
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:47:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with?



[new guy] These guys take safety very serious and thats a good thing and I want to shoot with them. I am human and may fuck up, if I do they will hopefully catch me at that time, and if I dont we will have a review of the incident parsed, reaffirm the whats, whys and hows, and have another safer shoot the next time.[/]




{New Guy} Wow these guys really take safety very serious and have way more experience with firearms than i do. I'm a little nervous because i dont know any of them and im just showing up to this site of the shoot. I know i am human and i may fuck up, god forbid, but after reading that post if i fuck up im going to be feeling like shit cause i know what i have to look forward to next time i log onto AR15.com. It would probably be the last group shoot i go to also, seeing as how i'd be embarrassed



You'd get over it, so would we

You aren't PLANNING on fucking up are you?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:49:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
How do you think some of the responses to this could effect new members, hesitant about approaching an already established group of guys to go shooting with?



[new guy] These guys take safety very serious and thats a good thing and I want to shoot with them. I am human and may fuck up, if I do they will hopefully catch me at that time, and if I dont we will have a review of the incident parsed, reaffirm the whats, whys and hows, and have another safer shoot the next time.[/]




{New Guy} Wow these guys really take safety very serious and have way more experience with firearms than i do. I'm a little nervous because i dont know any of them and im just showing up to this site of the shoot. I know i am human and i may fuck up, god forbid, but after reading that post if i fuck up im going to be feeling like shit cause i know what i have to look forward to next time i log onto AR15.com. It would probably be the last group shoot i go to also, seeing as how i'd be embarrassed




Why are you trolling this thread trying to get it locked assclown? Whats your point? DuH troll? Hate the world and we are in it??? WTF???


Seeing as how you werent at the incident, have dont nothing but troll the thead, and have nothing constructive to add........



Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:50:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
{New Guy} Wow these guys really take safety very serious and have way more experience with firearms than i do. I'm a little nervous because i dont know any of them and im just showing up to this site of the shoot. I know i am human and i may fuck up, god forbid, but after reading that post if i fuck up im going to be feeling like shit cause i know what i have to look forward to next time i log onto AR15.com. It would probably be the last group shoot i go to also, seeing as how i'd be embarrassed



Having to buy all the beer while they give you crap is much harder to deal with.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:54:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

{New Guy} Wow these guys really take safety very serious and have way more experience with firearms than i do. I'm a little nervous because i dont know any of them and im just showing up to this site of the shoot. I know i am human and i may fuck up, god forbid, but after reading that post if i fuck up im going to be feeling like shit cause i know what i have to look forward to next time i log onto AR15.com. It would probably be the last group shoot i go to also, seeing as how i'd be embarrassed




It is OK to be embarrassed, or nervous, But now you are bringing up things that were not involved in the situation at all...

If you come to your first Arfcom shoot, and dont know the rules, and dont even bother to ask, then You are the moron, and are guaranteeing there will be a thread about you!.

We are the most easygoing group I have ever been apart of, and if you have a question all you have to do is ask. Hell We share eachothers firearms with nothing more than a " Hey KA3B, Kevin has never fired a FAL before" KA3B will say, " There it is, let me show ya how she runs!"

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