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Posted: 10/23/2010 3:30:05 AM EDT
I was thinking the other day. If Brady gets in and signs a CCW bill, what are the chances of getting NFA attached to it at a later date? I am thinking that we will never see NFA items in this state as long as I live. Perhaps this is the door that needs to be opened to get there.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 6:59:31 AM EDT
before he signs anything it has to go thru a democrat controlled   senate  and congress ,what chance of that happening , this state sucks nothing will change here
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 7:02:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By putiton11:
before he signs anything it has to go thru a democrat controlled   senate  and congress ,what chance of that happening , this state sucks nothing will change here


And cook county & Shitcago.

I like to think of Chicago as "lil moscow" by the lake.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 7:18:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By putiton11:this state sucks nothing will change here

There are those of us who are out there paying in elbow grease and show leather to change Illinois.
A little PMA will go a long way.  
At the least, make sure that you go and vote.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 9:00:21 AM EDT
Brady will be the best chance at CCW this state has seen in many years, but NFA is an unrealistic goal.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 9:03:45 AM EDT



Originally Posted By mikew:



Originally Posted By putiton11:this state sucks nothing will change here


There are those of us who are out there paying in elbow grease and show leather to change Illinois.

A little PMA will go a long way.  

At the least, make sure that you go and vote.



I guess i'm a bit optimistic. I see more and more people that lean left embracing firearms. More now than in the past decade. I really think the tide is turning.

 



I was looking but couldn't find any states that went from a non-NFA state to pro-NFA. Are there any examples of this?
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 10:44:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ciph:
I guess i'm a bit optimistic. I see more and more people that lean left embracing firearms. More now than in the past decade. I really think the tide is turning.   I was looking but couldn't find any states that went from a non-NFA state to pro-NFA. Are there any examples of this?

In the post-Heller/post-McDonald era,  it's possible to litigate as well as legislate.

However, I can tell you that the effort here in IL will be to get CCW.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 12:27:19 PM EDT
Repeat after me: "Died in committee"

Link Posted: 10/23/2010 1:52:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2010 1:53:04 PM EDT by Lazyshooter]
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Repeat after me: "Died in committee"



Exactly.  Just like the anti-gunners get anti-gun bills to committees, that have nothing to do with guns.  They get the pro-gun bills to committees stacked with anti-gun democrats, and they die there, never to see the floor of the state House or Senate.
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 3:34:12 PM EDT
Shartcago dems control the all powerful rules committee.  Anything that could pass gets sent there to die.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 7:49:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ciph:
I was thinking the other day. If Brady gets in and signs a CCW bill, what are the chances of getting NFA attached to it at a later date? I am thinking that we will never see NFA items in this state as long as I live. Perhaps this is the door that needs to be opened to get there.



One step at a time.............................
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 12:20:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2010 12:27:26 PM EDT by xmikex]
1) The only way IL will get CCW is through the courts.
2) Just because someone is a Republican does not mean that they're pro-gun.
George Ryan
Mark Kirk
3) The Chicago metro area has the vast majority of the population of IL.  The Chicago area, like lots of large metro areas, is generally anti-gun. The majority rules.  


Link Posted: 10/24/2010 12:41:07 PM EDT



Originally Posted By xmikex:


1) The only way IL will get CCW is through the courts.

2) Just because someone is a Republican does not mean that they're pro-gun. Brady said he'd sign it if it makes it to him.

George Ryan

Mark Kirk

3) The Chicago metro area has the vast majority of the population of IL.  The Chicago area, like lots of large metro areas, is generally anti-gun. The majority rules.   Lots of folks in these areas are taking another look at firearms and purchasing them.











 
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 12:53:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xmikex:
1) The only way IL will get CCW is through the courts.
2) Just because someone is a Republican does not mean that they're pro-gun.
George Ryan
Mark Kirk
3) The Chicago metro area has the vast majority of the population of IL.  The Chicago area, like lots of large metro areas, is generally anti-gun. The majority rules.  




The irony is that just because someone is a Democrat does not mean they are anti-gun.  Typically it's urban Dems.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:26:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadesofgrey:
Originally Posted By xmikex:
1) The only way IL will get CCW is through the courts.
2) Just because someone is a Republican does not mean that they're pro-gun.
George Ryan
Mark Kirk
3) The Chicago metro area has the vast majority of the population of IL.  The Chicago area, like lots of large metro areas, is generally anti-gun. The majority rules.  




The irony is that just because someone is a Democrat does not mean they are anti-gun.  Typically it's urban Dems.


I'd agree - though I'd add that it's typically urban folks in general.  R's & D's...  I always think of Poshard (D) and how Ryan (R) used Poshard's pro-gun downstate platform to beat Poshard up with soccer moms...  

I think a lot of folks look at it as "Republicans are pro-gun, Dems are anti-gun" - and while it's generally true, it's not ALWAYS true.  Hell, the Green Party platform in IL a few years ago was pro-ccw  LOL





Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:31:18 PM EDT
Remember a couple years ago when a CCW bill was in the house it had more Dem (all downstate) sponsors than Rep sponsors.

...died in committee...
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2010 1:52:00 PM EDT by JoseyWales]
To be honest, it all depends on you.  The single best truth is that politicians do whatever brings the cash in and whatever the loudest voter voice tells them.  That is the essentials.  If you want anything done, this is what would have to happend.

1. Multiple county boards start passing their own version of CCW, forming a pachwork of laws and pressure

2.  Elect local leaders that will support CCW.  This means you MUST get involved in politics in one form or another.  In each political subdivision, you will have to ensure that NFA is protected.  
 2A.  Towns, Townships, and Cities would have to pass laws protecting this right
 2B    Counties must do the same.  County shall-issue laws.
 2C    Sherrifs and County Board members must be CCW or NFA friendly

3.  Need to come up with huge dollars for advertising fighting off the liberal who will get government funding to fight you....like they get today

4.  Need to get pro-Second Ammendment college students to major in journalism and get a job at loca TV stations as anchors, then they will have to do stories on your behalf (what the Joyce and Ford foundation has been doing against us)

5. Need to re-inforce as social standards that CCW/NFA is socially acceptable and fighting against it is extreme and nutty.  Movies would be a good means of doing this.



If you think any of this is unattainable, then give it up.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:49:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Remember a couple years ago when a CCW bill was in the house it had more Dem (all downstate) sponsors than Rep sponsors.

...died in committee...


Thus reinforcing that just because they are pro-gun dems means nothing.  The Party sets the agenda.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 2:09:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
To be honest, it all depends on you.  The single best truth is that politicians do whatever brings the cash in and whatever the loudest voter voice tells them.  That is the essentials.  If you want anything done, this is what would have to happend.

1. Multiple county boards start passing their own version of CCW, forming a pachwork of laws and pressure.


There is a minor problem with this approach: the supremacy clause does not allow a smaller form of government to over rule a larger governments law or rule.  I believe a town or county in IL passing an ordinance for ccw would fall under that clause.  It sucks that shitcago runs this state politically, but as was stated before, the only way to really make headway is through the courts.  Too bad its such an expensive and drawn out process to give us the rights we should have in the first place.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:00:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xmikex:
Originally Posted By shadesofgrey:
Originally Posted By xmikex:
1) The only way IL will get CCW is through the courts.
2) Just because someone is a Republican does not mean that they're pro-gun.
George Ryan
Mark Kirk
3) The Chicago metro area has the vast majority of the population of IL.  The Chicago area, like lots of large metro areas, is generally anti-gun. The majority rules.  




The irony is that just because someone is a Democrat does not mean they are anti-gun.  Typically it's urban Dems.


I'd agree - though I'd add that it's typically urban folks in general.  R's & D's...  I always think of Poshard (D) and how Ryan (R) used Poshard's pro-gun downstate platform to beat Poshard up with soccer moms...  

I think a lot of folks look at it as "Republicans are pro-gun, Dems are anti-gun" - and while it's generally true, it's not ALWAYS true.  Hell, the Green Party platform in IL a few years ago was pro-ccw  LOL







I'd go one further and say there's a Republican, Urban Republican,  RINO, and IL RINO.  Each one more unfriendly to the 2nd than the last.

Link Posted: 10/24/2010 4:14:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ciph:
I was looking but couldn't find any states that went from a non-NFA state to pro-NFA. Are there any examples of this?


Kansas in '08 I believe.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 5:09:00 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Ciph:





Originally Posted By xmikex:

1) The only way IL will get CCW is through the courts.

2) Just because someone is a Republican does not mean that they're pro-gun. Brady said he'd sign it if it makes it to him.

George Ryan

Mark Kirk

3) The Chicago metro area has the vast majority of the population of IL.  The Chicago area, like lots of large metro areas, is generally anti-gun. The majority rules.   Lots of folks in these areas are taking another look at firearms and purchasing them.









 


Brady has said that if elected, he will actively pursue getting CCW in this state, not just sitting around waiting for the bill to cross his desk.



 
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 7:15:14 PM EDT
In addition to CCW, boy wouldn't it be nice to see someone try to persue the active repealing of all the unconstitutional laws we have to wade through as it is.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:18:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:39:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By smrtfule:
Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
To be honest, it all depends on you.  The single best truth is that politicians do whatever brings the cash in and whatever the loudest voter voice tells them.  That is the essentials.  If you want anything done, this is what would have to happend.

1. Multiple county boards start passing their own version of CCW, forming a pachwork of laws and pressure.


There is a minor problem with this approach: the supremacy clause does not allow a smaller form of government to over rule a larger governments law or rule.  I believe a town or county in IL passing an ordinance for ccw would fall under that clause.  It sucks that shitcago runs this state politically, but as was stated before, the only way to really make headway is through the courts.  Too bad its such an expensive and drawn out process to give us the rights we should have in the first place.


THe point is to put pressure on the state level by affecting more managable subdivisions.  And at the same time, to make sure smaller subdivisions do not regulate by claim of home rule.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 2:07:52 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Tango7:


While the constitutional purist in me cringes at the thought of this, given the statistical history of a lack of "OK corrals" and "minor car accident turned into deadly road rage shootout" that the anti's foresaw when FL and the other states enacted "shall issue" CCW and the hard economic times the political observer in me thinks that one of the best selling points for CCW - and NFA - would be using the funds raised as a carrot for the hesitant in the legislature.



CCW that doubles as an FOID for $100/5 years. Essentially the same backgound check (NCIC) and the cost of the class is borne by the applicant.



Point out the lack of criminal use and exactly how much the sales tax revenue would be on those items and I think you could persuade folks, especially if the money went to "the schools/chilluns/homeless" or WTH the cause du jour is.



While it's an additional monetary hurdle that I disagree with in principle, another persuasion option might be to propose an NFA "authorization" card that acts along the lines of an FOID but for NFA items - $100/5 years... now if a way could be figured out to have it guarantee CLEO signoff where needed.





Thanks Tango, that is exactly where I was going with this thread. Even though none of that should be needed maybe it may be a means to an end.

 
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 4:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 4:52:58 AM EDT by wtr100]
slim 'an none 'an slim done left town

CCW - with a bunch of hoops to make it a MoFo to get - maybe

NFA?  NFW!
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