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Posted: 7/24/2005 3:18:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 8:23:56 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
I have a friend who shall soon be an ARFcom member. He is the only local guy I have seen blow gallon jugs of the stuff as no one else seems to want to pony up for that size target.

Now he is bored again and plans to detonate a 5 gallon bucket 40lbs of the stuff.

I advised him not to blow it at our local range, not that it isn't allowed but I'm afraid the possible fallout from onlookers and damage to the back berm or putting a big hole in the ground would possibly bring on repercussions and a ban. I've already seen that happen at the Birchwood range when some yayhoo blew a 20 target sized charge, removing some of the back berm, now it's completely banned there.

We will be taking video (I'm going to use my remote control as I cower in fear behind my big friend or something else big and solid. I don't think we shall be blowing any actual material up, just the bomb.

It will occur when I am back in town, sometime between August 12 and August 29th. All are invited at your (and your vehicle's) own risk. I think we may try to blow it at the flood control dikes where we hold some of our MG shoots. Video will be a must, then we will post it.

Anyone else blown 40lbs worth or more? If so, any comments?
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 4:17:14 PM EDT
Biggest I've done is a 500lb anfo in the trunk of a buick. Last year at a emergency response to terrorism bombing course I took.

Tertiary explosives are fun
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 5:29:38 PM EDT
I'll so be there! Keep us posted as to the time and place.

-Derek
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 8:22:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texnAK:
Biggest I've done is a 500lb anfo in the trunk of a buick. Last year at a emergency response to terrorism bombing course I took.

Tertiary explosives are fun



Sure, sure, but how close were you and did you get to set it off by shooting it?
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 11:31:59 PM EDT
How about floating it down the river and making it a moving target

The rain shower would eventually stop
Chris
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 11:59:51 PM EDT
3.5LB is the most I have done. 5 gallons should be killer. I don't think there could ever be to much.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 12:20:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
How about floating it down the river and making it a moving target

The rain shower would eventually stop
Chris



That's how we did them at the dike shoot back when. One of us tied a sling on to the charge and slung it out as far as they could. However the river came towards us and travelled alongside the bank to our right. Almost all of them were blown up near the bank. The half gallon charge blew water up that rained down on us for quite some time (glad my gear and self wasn't soaked, I shot that one but it was still to my left where the rest of the crowd was). We didn't go for the gallon charge there since we were worried about the rocks on the bank and there were some parked tourist not far away - we did that one at the range. It was sweet.

You have to think, just how far can you chuck a 40+ pound bomb - far enough to still be in safety when you shoot it? At least we aren't blowing up propane tanks, a refrigerator, car, or dead pig...
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 2:44:31 AM EDT
Please notify me a week before you do it. This I want to see. 40 lbs of AN.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 6:42:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 9:48:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:

Originally Posted By texnAK:
Biggest I've done is a 500lb anfo in the trunk of a buick. Last year at a emergency response to terrorism bombing course I took.

Tertiary explosives are fun



Sure, sure, but how close were you and did you get to set it off by shooting it?



I was far enough away to avoid injury (nearly a half mile behind a secure structure) watching through mirrors. lol Safety first

We did some fun detonations with C-4. Placed a couple pounds of C-4 on top of a 1" thick steel plate. Then we placed a neclace charm of the Pope between them After the boom we recovered the steel plate the part that spalded had an impression (faint) of the pope. Had we not known the charm was there it would have sold on ebay for millions.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 1:34:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
A 5 gallon bucket! Oh man... I'm getting one of those stupid impossible plans...

Reinforce the bottom of the bucket with steel. Build a cannon to size - bowling ball cannon style. Shoot it in the air...

I know you couldn't do it, and it wouldn't be safe, but... damn....




Well, you can build a bowling ball mortar quite easily. It's just a cut down gas cylinder with an internal cup on the inside bottom. Fill with 4oz of black powder, insert cannon fuse and bowling ball, light. They are a lot of fun.

Most people I know who build cannons size them for soda or soup cans.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:17:02 AM EDT
Well

I would guess that I could fairly easily engage a 5 gallon bucket at 500 meters and probably hit it out to 750 or more. How about attaching it to a tree and making toothpicks.

Chris
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:43:48 PM EDT
I've been doing some calculations on safe distances based on C-4 and dynomite so I know where to place my barko lounger, and now Chris wants to add shrapnel to it. Great, back to the chalkboard
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 6:09:08 PM EDT
I'm thinking we should stack a whole pile of boxes up and put the bucket on top. It'll turn all that into confetti and probably won't shoot a bunch of gravel at us.
The next question is that if we are going to shoot it at the dike, do we know someone with a boat that could ferry it out a ways?
I don't think I want to put it too far away or it will just be a loud boom far away. We shot the 8 pounder at 150 yards and it could have been at the 100.
I'm worried first about shrapnel though the only time we've had trouble with that was when we put the bomb under/inside/next to something hard(Microwave, computer, boards, gas cans, tv's, monitors, etc).
I'd like to feel as much Thump as I can for my money's worth without killing someone!
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 10:41:53 PM EDT
Well, maybe we should go for broke and add some gas like we did at the Whittier shoot? It makes a nice fireball.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 12:05:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
Well, maybe we should go for broke and add some gas like we did at the Whittier shoot? It makes a nice fireball.



How about strapping the charge to a propane cylinder?

Probably would make a nice mushroom cloud
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:48:37 AM EDT
tag for video.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:29:29 AM EDT
Propane cylinders - everyone does that... However we are seriously concerned about shrapnel.

I am 100% serious about the gas. At the Whitter MG shoot, we combined the charges with fuel and it made for really nice explosions with fireballs - yet no shrapnel.

When I used to go to the SOF conventions in Las Vegas, they would use dynamite and gas. The dynamite gave you that cuncussive slap and the gas provided the crowd pleasing visual fireball.

I'm going to push for fuel/tannerite bomb.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:37:47 AM EDT
If you go with gas and tannerite make sure to place a lit flare on the ground near the 'target'. The tannerite doesn't effectively ignite the fuel.

And make sure to post pictures!

Matt
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:55:19 AM EDT
Sounds like we need to start some small scale testing.
I was reading on another site (http://www.boomershoot.org/general/fireball.htm) about this fireball stuff and they said the trick was to mix in Titanium powder. I guess it'll ignite from the tannerite, and in turn ignite the vaporized fuel. The couple of videos I watched were pretty awsome, so I'm in for some testing with flares or whatever we figure out works best. Last I looked, titanium powder is high on the $$$ list, so not sure about that, though the fireballs look great. Lets see, they are using 1 lb target to 1 gallon gas. So 40 lb target, we need 40 gallons of gas. Tee hee, I get giddy just thinking about it! I wonder how long one might spend in jail doing that? I'm sure 40 gallons of gas would make a fireball pretty high. High enough to draw unwanted attention I'm sure. Might be worth the risk. . .
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 12:20:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 12:25:32 PM EDT by AK_Mike]

Originally Posted By mwarnick1:
If you go with gas and tannerite make sure to place a lit flare on the ground near the 'target'. The tannerite doesn't effectively ignite the fuel.

And make sure to post pictures!

Matt



Matt, were they using gas or diesel? Gas would be much more volatile and if they were using diesel, maybe the gas would ignite without the secondary flame source.

Funwand, you are sick. You don't NEED 40 gallons of gas unless you want a fireball 40x as big. 40lbs of Tannerite and 1 gallon of gas will make the same fireball as 1lb and 1 gal. Sure, more gas but 40 gallons is insane. (not sure there was in point in saying that). You could blow 5 gallons of gas with 40lbs of Tannerite and get a huge ass fireball methinks. I suppose with 40 gallons the entire community could enjoy the fireball whether they were there or not.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 2:10:33 PM EDT
I got it!

Powdered Potassium Nitrate + powdered Charcoal + lots of diesel...

nevermind


-Derek
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:14:49 PM EDT
well of course you don't NEED 40 gallons of gas. But doesn't it just make you sit back and think of the possibilities?
http://www.boomershoot.org/general/Smyrna1313_2.jpg
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 5:29:13 PM EDT
Holy jeebus. I should be able to see that from Oregon!
Matthew
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 7:02:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Funwand:
Sounds like we need to start some small scale testing.
I was reading on another site (http://www.boomershoot.org/general/fireball.htm) about this fireball stuff and they said the trick was to mix in Titanium powder. I guess it'll ignite from the tannerite, and in turn ignite the vaporized fuel. The couple of videos I watched were pretty awsome, so I'm in for some testing with flares or whatever we figure out works best. Last I looked, titanium powder is high on the $$$ list, so not sure about that, though the fireballs look great. Lets see, they are using 1 lb target to 1 gallon gas. So 40 lb target, we need 40 gallons of gas. Tee hee, I get giddy just thinking about it! I wonder how long one might spend in jail doing that? I'm sure 40 gallons of gas would make a fireball pretty high. High enough to draw unwanted attention I'm sure. Might be worth the risk. . .




We used 5 bottles of tannerite mixed into a tupperware dish and put it in front of four five gallong buckets of 50% diesel and 50% Naptha that we got at home depot (don't know why the naptha but the guy finacing the boom said the guy from Vector (yeah the Uzi guy) told him that was a good mixture. Then we placed a couple road flares about ten yards behind that and touched it off. it made a fireball a good 50 YARDS wide and much taller than that. It was unreal. I took my kids unbeknowst to my wife and made them swear a death oath they'd never tell . Our cover was blown however cause when we got home we all smelled like we'd been pumping gas for the last three days.

I got some decent video of it I will try to find and upload in the next few days.....

crashburnrepeat
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:33:58 PM EDT
naptha is reactive with oxidizers
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:25:12 PM EDT
I want to come and watch

I think you will need to notify NASA when you set that off so you don't scorch the shuttle

Chris
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:37:00 PM EDT
Shot a propane bottle a while back with a .50 BMG incendiary round. It blowed up real good. Not sure if ignition occured when the bulllet hit the bottle or the gravel behind it, but it was still pretty good.

Video HERE

You have to scroll to the bottom, click FREE, and wait for the timer. Sorry, don't know much about file hosting.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 2:15:39 AM EDT
Keep this shit up (and posting it on places that all the Alphabet Agencies lurk) will get Tannerite banned for good. As cool as this stuff it (I like the idea of 40lbs of Tannerite and 40gals of gas BTW), but this is the kind of thing best kept between you and a few good buddies.

Seriously, that's a huge amount of energy you plan on releasing-keep it to yourself..

Dave
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 7:28:00 PM EDT
Thanks dad...




Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Keep this shit up (and posting it on places that all the Alphabet Agencies lurk) will get Tannerite banned for good. As cool as this stuff it (I like the idea of 40lbs of Tannerite and 40gals of gas BTW), but this is the kind of thing best kept between you and a few good buddies.

Seriously, that's a huge amount of energy you plan on releasing-keep it to yourself..

Dave

Link Posted: 7/28/2005 9:36:56 PM EDT
First, there have already been a plethora of posts about the stunts people have pulled with Tannerite, this thread is no different.

Second, I thought I made it pretty clear that we are doing this in a secluded area, and we are doing it safely, not pulling the kind of stupid stunts that get people hurt. We are not blowing material up and at worst, we may be using an appropriate amount of fuel to enhance the visual effects. Note that I recommended not using an outrageous amount of fuel should we decide to implement it.

We have already used the Tannerite/Fuel combination in sanctioned shooting events. We are using it as a reactive target, not to destroy anything, and taking precautions to ensure safety and not cause banning or new rules at a location that tannerite is used at often. It's not open to the public.

I feel somewhat the way you do as I read about the STUPID stunts people pull with this safe product. When I hear about taking damage personally, or to property, I pretty much feel the people pulling the stunt got exactly what they deserved when they used the product in an unsafe manner. I do not feel our event can be catagorized with the others like that. This is no different than an explosive demo. We could use dynamite, which is legal, but then we would have to go get our explosives guy (who normally handles the explosives at our shoot using various explosive compounds). We will be taking great care to ensure that this will be a safe and controlled demolition, and observe appropriate safety measures, unlike some of the other outrageous posts describe.

Your concern is valid, but not to this event.
Link Posted: 7/28/2005 10:55:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 11:13:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:

We used 5 bottles of tannerite mixed into a tupperware dish and put it in front of four five gallong buckets of 50% diesel and 50% Naptha that we got at home depot (don't know why the naptha but the guy finacing the boom said the guy from Vector (yeah the Uzi guy) told him that was a good mixture. Then we placed a couple road flares about ten yards behind that and touched it off. it made a fireball a good 50 YARDS wide and much taller than that. It was unreal. I took my kids unbeknowst to my wife and made them swear a death oath they'd never tell . Our cover was blown however cause when we got home we all smelled like we'd been pumping gas for the last three days.

I got some decent video of it I will try to find and upload in the next few days.....

crashburnrepeat



So do you think the Naptha made the fireball better then plain old gas? I'm trying to get a feel for how much cooler it is so I can decided if I need to go get some of this Naptha stuff. I just ordered a AR under the carefull tutilage of AK_Mike, so in a week or so, I'll begin some small scale testing. If anybody in fairbanks has a stash of gallon jugs or 2 liter bottles, let me know, they work great for this sort of stuff.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 12:41:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 1:53:20 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Naptha is ALWAYS cool!

Speaking of which, did you know that flamethrowers are not a controlled item in anyway? I need to get some Naptha in my stash, never know when it might come in handy.

ETA: I guess I should have elaborated. It will make the effect much better than just gas. The gas will burn up quicker. I believe the addition of the Naptha will make the fireball bigger and last longer. You are basically creating Napalm. Naptha is basically lighter fluid/charcoal starter fluid. It's a cruder oil based fuel. It's what allows the fuel to burn longer and spread, another name for it you might recognize - Greek Fire.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 10:25:40 AM EDT
As much as gas costs these days I can't see doing anything with it but putting it my my car.

~Dg84
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 5:45:33 PM EDT
I'll go.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:55:36 PM EDT
taggity
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:50:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:

Originally Posted By Funwand:
Sounds like we need to start some small scale testing.
I was reading on another site (http://www.boomershoot.org/general/fireball.htm) about this fireball stuff and they said the trick was to mix in Titanium powder. I guess it'll ignite from the tannerite, and in turn ignite the vaporized fuel. The couple of videos I watched were pretty awsome, so I'm in for some testing with flares or whatever we figure out works best. Last I looked, titanium powder is high on the $$$ list, so not sure about that, though the fireballs look great. Lets see, they are using 1 lb target to 1 gallon gas. So 40 lb target, we need 40 gallons of gas. Tee hee, I get giddy just thinking about it! I wonder how long one might spend in jail doing that? I'm sure 40 gallons of gas would make a fireball pretty high. High enough to draw unwanted attention I'm sure. Might be worth the risk. . .




We used 5 bottles of tannerite mixed into a tupperware dish and put it in front of four five gallong buckets of 50% diesel and 50% Naptha that we got at home depot (don't know why the naptha but the guy finacing the boom said the guy from Vector (yeah the Uzi guy) told him that was a good mixture. Then we placed a couple road flares about ten yards behind that and touched it off. it made a fireball a good 50 YARDS wide and much taller than that. It was unreal. I took my kids unbeknowst to my wife and made them swear a death oath they'd never tell . Our cover was blown however cause when we got home we all smelled like we'd been pumping gas for the last three days.

I got some decent video of it I will try to find and upload in the next few days.....

crashburnrepeat



crashburnrepeat,

I so want to go shooting with you the next time you go.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:56:00 PM EDT
Bump to the top...can't forget this...it's going to be a blast
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:05:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
Bump to the top...can't forget this...it's going to be a blast



Dammit. You got me all excited. Thought he'd gone and updated with video.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:00:34 PM EDT
lol...sorry...im such a tease


Originally Posted By Mauser101:

Originally Posted By sledhead907:
Bump to the top...can't forget this...it's going to be a blast



Dammit. You got me all excited. Thought he'd gone and updated with video.

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:45:11 AM EDT
Forgive me for being ignorant, but can someone tell me what tannerite is?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:08:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Timinem:
Forgive me for being ignorant, but can someone tell me what tannerite is?



Come and find out, you are in for a treat.

Seriously though, it's a binary explosive. It's sent to you in two parts that you mix on site. It's not hazardous or controlled until mixed. You must use it or dispose of it within 24 hours after mixing. Without an explosives license, you may not transport it mixed, or sell it. You don't need a license to use it. It takes the velocity of a centerfire rifle round (in general) to set it off (or something like a blasting cap). Burning it, shocking it, shooting it with most handgun rounds won't set it off - very safe. Big explosion, no fire. Expensive, but dramatic. It's a reactive target, but some people get carried away and try and blow crap up with it, sometimes to detrimental (but hella fun) effect.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:55:37 AM EDT
Wow, Wish I could make it, Any chance of doing it in Juneau? I'll buy the ammo and beer. And hell I'll even be your chofuer (sp?)
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 10:54:50 PM EDT
Sorry guys, it can't happen this weekend, Funwand is otherwise occupied. I may or may not be around next weekend but we shall see. We might end up doing it on a weekday after Funwand's work. We will be sure to video it all though in anycase.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:30:36 AM EDT
Ok, I've made it back with 5 cases of ammo and am ready to start playing with project: Fireball. Sounds like Mike is in with the Naptha. He might be taking 2 cases of my tannerite so we might be down to a 20lb bomb which doesn't excite me near as much as a 40lb. We popped off a 12 pounder and it was good, but 40 pounds will really give me the THUMP I'm looking for!

So, back in town now, It's time to start mixing some bombs up. I've got some computer consulting to do after 5, but I imagine I'll be free around 7 this whole week, if not some days right after 5. So who's showing up to help find the proper mixture for a kick a$$ blaze? Speaking of which, one thing I need is plastic containers. Like 2 liter and gallon jugs. maybe even smallers stuff too since for testing we dont want to use up a lot of materials.

hmmm can't seem to use the spellcheck function.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:53:50 AM EDT
I want to watch

When and where?

I usually am good for a few 1 liter soda bottles if they will work

Chris
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:36:10 PM EDT
Well I think I'll try to show up tonight around 7pm if all goes according to plan. I've got lots of gas and tannerite. What I don't have is the plastic bottles for the gas. Chris said he's got some to bring. those 1 liter things will be perfect for testing. I'm pretty sure a 1/2 lb of Tannerite will vaporize 2liters or more though so more experimenting is called for.
So Mike and I will try to be out there around 7(if not earlier sighting in my rifle) so I hope to see some folks. Also, a video camera would be a great thing to have show up out there.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:15:12 PM EDT
Well that was informative. We tried the following:

1lb Tannerite charges with 1/2 liter and 1 liter bottles of fuel duct taped to them. The fuel was a 50/50 mix of gas and naptha. Flares were placed 10 feet away at the beginning.

The first bomb went off but the fuel didn't ignite. It was clear by the pattern on the ground that the flare was too far away. Next one we moved the flares closer (used both). It ignited but the fireball was perhaps only 15 feet in diameter (funwand can correct me as I am poor at estimating distances/lengths).

So now that the initial fear was surpassed, we went for 1 liter bottles of fuel, 1-1lb charge of tannerite. Due to poor lighting conditions and the flares making it difficult to see the charge, the bombs were difficult to hit. Funwand's rifle wasn't 100% dialed in with his new optic. Several shots at both managed to perforate the fuel bottles and wing the tannerite. Both fuel bottles leaked. One leaked out completely, the other leaked half way. I took over and nailed the charge with the half full liter bottle of fuel. The fireball on that one was more like 25 feet. I didn't get video of the second fireball as I was the shooter - figures...

So now we are escalating the charges. 2 lb or better tannerite charge with probably a 2 liter bottle of fuel/naptha mix, flare being a few feet away. That will be tried Tuesday. I will shoot it if someone else video's the result. I know I can nail it fairly easy at the distance we are shooting at cause my rifle is right on at that range.

We did it at the Cushman range. We set off some standard 1 lb Tannerite charges at first and waiting until everyone left (almost 10pm) before detonating the fuel bombs.

I was waiting to see if anyone got spooked. When we were mixing the explosives, one of us was wearing white examination gloves (and he kept on wearing them which was a bit freaky), we were pouring fuel, and I had a fire extinguisher at the bench. No one seemed too spooked. Not even when we opened up with some full auto fire in 22lr and .223.

Funwand had a beta mag loaded and ready to shoot in his upper but it was apparently not cut enough for the autosear in my M16 lower. Bummer.

Tomorrow is another day, we know now what not to do. I figure this will be the last test before da big bomb.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 11:11:14 AM EDT
Tripod so you don't have to worry about who is filming or camera shakeyness. Just hit record and edit it down later.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 12:12:07 PM EDT
Yep, well, working on getting one. I could have had someone else video the bomb I lit up, but we were in a hurry as the fuel cell on it was leaking and half was already gone. I wanted to ignite it before we lost the rest of the fuel. We are going to try Diesel and Naptha instead of Gas and Naptha and see if that makes much difference.
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