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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 4/18/2007 7:49:15 PM EDT
Just a good lawyer? Was the stop really that poorly done? Does anyone know for sure here?

Finally, did the officer really say "Oh, if you had said that you were the Mayor's daughter I would have called my supervisor and would have driven you home"?

The Houston Chronicle's coverage seems to have gone away, like all of their other coverage of Democrats who screw up (like the dozens of Mayor Brown relatives and associates in prison or the HISD scandal-of-the-week).

Yes, you can point out a link for me to follow. I heard about it today and would like to do some reading.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 4:20:36 AM EDT
There was alot of BS said in the media prior to the trial. Come to find out that the original prosecutor on the case was friends with the mayor and leaking false info. That asst DA was fired and another put on the case. Wasn't in the trial so I don't know why they really lost the trial but knowing how stuff works in this county I knew damn good and well that they weren't going to convict a young, white girl with daddy being the mayor.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 11:16:49 AM EDT
She was under 21 right?????

Why did they not do it as a DUI?
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 11:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 97-silver-z:
She was under 21 right?????

Why did they not do it as a DUI?


They could have just issued her the citation and gone the DUI by minor route but they knew she met the elements for a higher charge DWI.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 12:00:05 PM EDT
People beat DWI's every day-BFD
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 7:40:37 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Just a good lawyer? Was the stop really that poorly done? Does anyone know for sure here?

Finally, did the officer really say "Oh, if you had said that you were the Mayor's daughter I would have called my supervisor and would have driven you home"?

The Houston Chronicle's coverage seems to have gone away, like all of their other coverage of Democrats who screw up (like the dozens of Mayor Brown relatives and associates in prison or the HISD scandal-of-the-week).

Yes, you can point out a link for me to follow. I heard about it today and would like to do some reading.


The police officers that performed the sobriety test admitted they made 21 different mistakes during the stop. Many related directly to administering the test itself. I read in an earlier article that it was a rookie cop giving them. She never took a Breathalyzer test and the jury saw multiple videotapes of the field sobriety tests and didn't think it proved she was intoxicated. Defense lawyer didn't even call a witness and it took the jury only 1 hour and 20 minutes to come back with a not guilty verdict.

The chron.com doesn't leave any of their stories up for more than a few weeks it seems, no conspiracy there.

Video from Channel 2
www.click2houston.com/video/10957309/index.html
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 8:02:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 4:19:19 AM EDT by jadams951]

Originally Posted By ardvrk:
Jadams-

I spent 6 years at the Harris County DA's office, and have been practicing criminal law since 89, when I left the DA's Office.

I have spent every working day at the Harris County Criminal Courthouse since 1982.

Your statement is bullshit! No DA was fired over the White DWI.

What a load of crap to put on the Internet!

Where do you get your info? The National Enquirer, right beside the UFO stuff?


Well, then other ADA's need to stop spreading the BS to us! If I'm wrong oh well then tell others to stop spreading BS to us. So since you know everything was the original ADA taken off the case? I'll ask the main deputy today.
Link Posted: 4/19/2007 8:05:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtielke:

Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Just a good lawyer? Was the stop really that poorly done? Does anyone know for sure here?

Finally, did the officer really say "Oh, if you had said that you were the Mayor's daughter I would have called my supervisor and would have driven you home"?

The Houston Chronicle's coverage seems to have gone away, like all of their other coverage of Democrats who screw up (like the dozens of Mayor Brown relatives and associates in prison or the HISD scandal-of-the-week).

Yes, you can point out a link for me to follow. I heard about it today and would like to do some reading.


The police officers that performed the sobriety test admitted they made 21 different mistakes during the stop. Many related directly to administering the test itself. I read in an earlier article that it was a rookie cop giving them. She never took a Breathalyzer test and the jury saw multiple videotapes of the field sobriety tests and didn't think it proved she was intoxicated. Defense lawyer didn't even call a witness and it took the jury only 1 hour and 20 minutes to come back with a not guilty verdict.

The chron.com doesn't leave any of their stories up for more than a few weeks it seems, no conspiracy there.

Video from Channel 2
www.click2houston.com/video/10957309/index.html


It was a rookie deputy who made the stop and arrest but he had a deputy trained in the SFST's administer them.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 3:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ardvrk:
Jadams-

I spent 6 years at the Harris County DA's office, and have been practicing criminal law since 89, when I left the DA's Office.

I have spent every working day at the Harris County Criminal Courthouse since 1982.

Your statement is bullshit! No DA was fired over the White DWI.

What a load of crap to put on the Internet!

Where do you get your info? The National Enquirer, right beside the UFO stuff?


Thanks for the background, but will you answer the main question of this thread?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:59:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FaceTime:

Originally Posted By ardvrk:
Jadams-

I spent 6 years at the Harris County DA's office, and have been practicing criminal law since 89, when I left the DA's Office.

I have spent every working day at the Harris County Criminal Courthouse since 1982.

Your statement is bullshit! No DA was fired over the White DWI.

What a load of crap to put on the Internet!

Where do you get your info? The National Enquirer, right beside the UFO stuff?


Thanks for the background, but will you answer the main question of this thread?


No one can tell you exactly how she got off. In my experience, with alot of dwi arrests under my belt, I've learned that a lot of juries are reluctant to convict people on dwi because alot of those same jury members do the same thing. I've had cases that th evidence was slim that I won and cases where I had him falling down drunk, can't talk, and breath tests well above the legal limit and the jurt would not convict.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:47:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 8:59:56 AM EDT by ardvrk]
Jadams-

As I type this, I am sitting next to the Asst. DA that actually tried this case.

Yes, your statement is bullshit! No DA was fired. The original Chief in that Court quit the DA's Office and went into private practice.

The main problem was extremely poor witnesses from Precinct 5 Constable's Office, no clear video, and the huge reason was that they, (the deputies), admitted on the stand that if they had known she was the mayor's daughter, they would have taken her home.

The "trained" deputies did a piss poor job on the FST's. Such rookie mistakes as having her face oncoming traffic and the lights. Since you have made "many" DWI cases, you know that's a mistake, right? The deputies had her take the FSTs barefooted on a rocky road. That's good police work, right?
They also told her we will take you in and if you blow, maybe we'll just give you a class c dui. They testified that they had to call their SGT. to make the decision as to dui or DWI. Do you think that builds in reasonable doubt that the arresting deputies can't decide what to charge her with?

Come to think of it, aren't you a Pct. 5 deputy?

Your version of how a DA was fired for leaking information is making quite a stir in the DA's Office.

To answer one final statement/question, no I don't know everything, but I do know the courthouse and bullshit when I see it!

Link Posted: 4/20/2007 9:16:51 AM EDT
I practice in rural Wise County and I have tried and gotten dismissed many dwi cases. The quickest way to tell the jury that your SFST's suck is to tell the suspect "if you blow, and you are under, we'll let you go (or a ticket, etc.). If this information was presented to the jury, it should have taken them about 10 minutes to find her not guilty. In fact, as one who does some special prosecution, I don't know that I would have filed the case in the first place.

Sounds like a crappy case with a high profile defendant. Sucks to be the prosecutor on this one. Nothing you do will be right. Dismiss it or give her a lesser charge and no matter what you say, you will "soft on her b/c she is the mayor's daughter." Try a crappy case and lose, and you get accused of being hard on her b/c she was "the mayors daughter" A no win situation.

To my fellow brother "in law" keep up the good fight. It seems from your post that you were making the best decision you could and trying to do what is right.

James Stainton
Decatur, Texas
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 9:19:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ardvrk:
Jadams-

As I type this, I am sitting next to the Asst. DA that actually tried this case.

Yes, your statement is bullshit! No DA was fired. The original Chief in that Court quit the DA's Office and went into private practice.

The main problem was extremely poor witnesses from Precinct 5 Constable's Office, no clear video, and the huge reason was that they, (the deputies), admitted on the stand that if they had known she was the mayor's daughter, they would have taken her home.

The "trained" deputies did a piss poor job on the FST's. Such rookie mistakes as having her face oncoming traffic and the lights. Since you have made "many" DWI cases, you know that's a mistake, right? The deputies had her take the FSTs barefooted on a rocky road. That's good police work, right?
They also told her we will take you in and if you blow, maybe we'll just give you a class c dui. They testified that they had to call their SGT. to make the decision as to dui or DWI. Do you think that builds in reasonable doubt that the arresting deputies can't decide what to charge her with?

Come to think of it, aren't you a Pct. 5 deputy?

Your version of how a DA was fired for leaking information is making quite a stir in the DA's Office.

To answer one final statement/question, no I don't know everything, but I do know the courthouse and bullshit when I see it!



It is good to know that the police are impartial. Those deputies should be fired for making that statement on stand. Didn't these two deputies take some sort of oath to uphold the law, even if it involves the mayor's daughter? I'd hate to know what the Bush twins could get away with.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 3:53:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 3:57:28 PM EDT by ardvrk]
trwoprod-

Posts such as yours, and jadams', that are misinformed and just plain wrong, are what cause me to respond so forcefully.

My last posting in the DA's office, where I stayed for almost 2 years, was in the Civil Rights Division, prosecuting police misconduct. After I left the DA's office, in 1989, to date, the majority of my criminal defense practice has been defending police union members in criminal court.

To my knowledge and experience, which includes almost every working day since 1987, there have been no prosecutions of police officers in "civil rights violations" for publicity.

I recall one misguided prosecution, of which I was part of the defense, of a Houston police officer involved in the shooting death of Pedro Oregon. It was not for publivity, as the particular DA involved acknowledged the difficulty of his case, the negative publicity it was generating. That particular DA felt that a wrong had been perpertrated, and sought to balance the scales. Fortunately, the citizens on the jury returned a not guilty in about 11 minutes, IIRC. Aside from that, I don't have any knowledge of a police officer being prosecuted "for the publicity".

Could you please inform me of the particular case, or cases, that you are referring to?

As to your comment about none of your friends being offered rides home, that brings to mind an extremely unfortunate situation from the late 80's. An extremely fine sex crimes detective from the SO made what turned out to be an incredibly bad decison concerning a DWI driver.

This particular detective, for whom the rape kits of the era were named after, nationwide, made a fateful decision to participate in a federally funded program, called STEP, (selective traffic enforcement program). The aim of the program was to flood officers onto the street during high traffic times at night, say like New year's Eve night, to rigidly enforce traffic laws in an attempt to get unsafe drivers off of the street. (Read DWI enforcement here.) This allowed officers to receive overtime pay, which with pay scales, was sorely needed by most officers. This outstanding detective, whom had not been on the streets in years, elected to volunteer for the STEP program, put on a uniform, and patrol the streets at night in the STEP program. This particular officer stopped a young lady, no one of note, for speeding. When he had contact with this person, it appeared the young lady was intoxicated. In an incredibly unfortunate decision, and because he was old school, this officer elected to write the young lady a ticket for speeding, and let her go home, which was just a few blocks away. The grateful young lady took the ticket, put it in her pocket and drove a short distance and had a head on collision with another vehicle, killing the 2 occupants. During the subsequent investigation, the ticket was found in her pocket from minutes before from this particular officer.

Being an honest man, when confronted, the officer related why he had let this young lady go home. It cost Harris County a fair amount of $, 2 innocent lives, and this otherwise outstanding detective his previously unblemished career.

Nowadays, in todays litigious society, it is an extremely foolhardy officer that lets a DWI suspect go home, or gives them a ride. It will, in probaly 50% or more of the situations, cost them their job or career.

The prosecution of this DWI of the Mayor's daughter didn't fly because 6 citizens of Harris County heard the evidence and decided the young lady was not guilty of DWI. The DA's office knew from the onset that they were going to take a whipping in Court on that one, and rather than one segment of the population say they were showing favoritism to a young, white female with political connections, the DA's Office elected to proceed and let the citizens decide. The fact that the Pct 5 deputies involved were horrible witnesses for the State is the DA's fault how?

If you take offense for me taking you to task for an ill advised and uninformed comment, I apologize. I just get really tired of people with absolutely no knowledge or experience commenting on this particular subject in a negative or derogatory manner.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 4:18:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ardvrk:
trwoprod-

Posts such as yours, and jadams', that are misinformed and just plain wrong, are what cause me to respond so forcefully.

My last posting in the DA's office, where I stayed for almost 2 years, was in the Civil Rights Division, prosecuting police misconduct. After I left the DA's office, in 1989, to date, the majority of my criminal defense practice has been defending police union members in criminal court.

To my knowledge and experience, which includes almost every working day since 1987, there have been no prosecutions of police officers in "civil rights violations" for publicity.

I recall one misguided prosecution, of which I was part of the defense, of a Houston police officer involved in the shooting death of Pedro Oregon. It was not for publivity, as the particular DA involved acknowledged the difficulty of his case, the negative publicity it was generating. That particular DA felt that a wrong had been perpertrated, and sought to balance the scales. Fortunately, the citizens on the jury returned a not guilty in about 11 minutes, IIRC. Aside from that, I don't have any knowledge of a police officer being prosecuted "for the publicity".

Could you please inform me of the particular case, or cases, that you are referring to?

As to your comment about none of your friends being offered rides home, that brings to mind an extremely unfortunate situation from the late 80's. An extremely fine sex crimes detective from the SO made what turned out to be an incredibly bad decison concerning a DWI driver.

This particular detective, for whom the rape kits of the era were named after, nationwide, made a fateful decision to participate in a federally funded program, called STEP, (selective traffic enforcement program). The aim of the program was to flood officers onto the street during high traffic times at night, say like New year's Eve night, to rigidly enforce traffic laws in an attempt to get unsafe drivers off of the street. (Read DWI enforcement here.) This allowed officers to receive overtime pay, which with pay scales, was sorely needed by most officers. This outstanding detective, whom had not been on the streets in years, elected to volunteer for the STEP program, put on a uniform, and patrol the streets at night in the STEP program. This particular officer stopped a young lady, no one of note, for speeding. When he had contact with this person, it appeared the young lady was intoxicated. In an incredibly unfortunate decision, and because he was old school, this officer elected to write the young lady a ticket for speeding, and let her go home, which was just a few blocks away. The grateful young lady took the ticket, put it in her pocket and drove a short distance and had a head on collision with another vehicle, killing the 2 occupants. During the subsequent investigation, the ticket was found in her pocket from minutes before from this particular officer.

Being an honest man, when confronted, the officer related why he had let this young lady go home. It cost Harris County a fair amount of $, 2 innocent lives, and this otherwise outstanding detective his previously unblemished career.

Nowadays, in todays litigious society, it is an extremely foolhardy officer that lets a DWI suspect go home, or gives them a ride. It will, in probaly 50% or more of the situations, cost them their job or career.

The prosecution of this DWI of the Mayor's daughter didn't fly because 6 citizens of Harris County heard the evidence and decided the young lady was not guilty of DWI. The DA's office knew from the onset that they were going to take a whipping in Court on that one, and rather than one segment of the population say they were showing favoritism to a young, white female with political connections, the DA's Office elected to proceed and let the citizens decide. The fact that the Pct 5 deputies involved were horrible witnesses for the State is the DA's fault how?

If you take offense for me taking you to task for an ill advised and uninformed comment, I apologize. I just get really tired of people with absolutely no knowledge or experience commenting on this particular subject in a negative or derogatory manner.


You raise good points, and I am afraid that my response will probably be inadequate. When I walked away from Republican Party politics the second time a few years ago, I stopped spending almost any time around attorneys (not connected per se, just the crowd I was with at the time). I am aware that a great deal of thought goes into decisions to prosecute and I wish that I could give you examples from memory, but honestly I cannot recall. I was a lot more upset about things like this (and knew the details inside and out) when I was younger. Now it just makes me tired. I do not think that the DA in most cases will give the police officer the benefit of the doubt. I may be wrong. I tend to think that political considerations are always there, far more so than any sense of right or wrong. I don't like the "best justice that money can buy" attitude of a lot of attorneys and I dislike how political considerations infect what should be pretty simple considerations, but I believe that it is a large part of the whole process at this point. Perhaps I am being negative, but I am deeply, deeply suspicious every time a police officer gets prosecuted.

Also, I think that you misunderstood (not difficult, given that I didn't give you any information). I don't think that my friends should have gotten a ride home. They were driving drunk. This is going to sound a little out of place, but people like that make people like me look like assholes. One of the requirements of being well bred was behaving like it, and that means keeping up appearances and not doing stupid shit. This is one of the reasons I really hate George W. Bush. There is a big difference between people like me and asshole frat boys who drive drunk, even if we live in houses right next to each other and have similar net worths. So seeing someone like me skate pisses me off a lot. I don't think that people should be let go if they appear intoxicated, whether it is drugs, alcohol, out of whack blood sugar from diabetes.

And I am not offended. If you were dressing me down, you were gentle.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 4:27:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 5:08:12 PM EDT by jadams951]
Ardvrk no one is gonna be upset with you for telling the truth. This is the net for crying out loud. If I'm full of shit and totally wrong about what I said then by all means call me on it and get me corrected. My info came from a high up source that I considered reliable. If I'm wrong than shame on me.

You take any dwi trials and u will find mistakes. They are some of the most in depth and technical trials I've had. You take a little thing and do it wrong or just say the wrong thing then you look incompetent even though you administered the test right. That's what defense attorneys do. The defense attorney in this case is well known in this town and I know he's done other DWI cases and I'm sure he has the SFST manual to guide him in the trial.

As for things such as the deputies calling the supervisor so what? That means nothing they didn't find out till after the arrest and on the way to the jail who she was. So of anyone saying she got special treatment because of her dad that's wrong.

As for them saying they would have probably now just cut her the class c duck or taken her home. Again...so what? I would have said the same thing. Why because that situation is a headache I don't need and they know too especially now.



Link Posted: 4/20/2007 5:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 5:43:49 PM EDT by ardvrk]
Jadams-

You are either ignoring my point about your original post, or fail to grasp it.

One, you were laying out a line of untrue crap. No DA was fired for "feeding information".

Two, your fellow deputies were extremely poor witnesses. We all have NIHTSA SFST manuals. The point is, they did not follow the rather simple instructions to carry out FSTS to be valid. The deputies invovled may be stellar fellows, but according to the prosecutor, defense attoenys, observers and everyone else involved, they shouldn't be making DWI arrests if they can't follow simple guidlines.

So what they called a supervisor? If you missed that one, you really need to be more careful. They testified that when the young lady refused to blow, they called a supervisor to help them determine what the appropriate charge should be, DUI or DWI. That shows some pretty monumental indecision on their part. If they can't decide if she was DWI, how can a jury find beyond a reasonable doubt that she was? Does that point escape you?

Further, IIRC, you have less than 3 years on the job, so I really don't think you have a whole bunch of DWI's "under your belt". You certainly are not qualified to voice an opinion on how a trial was conducted, particularly when you are spouting drivel that is untrue, you were not present and appear, at best, biased. You say DWI trials are some of the most techncial trials you have been in. Exactly how many trials have you testified in? More than 5? As a PCt 5 deputy, even if you are in a contract neighborhood, or on the Toll Road, you just don't have that much experience.

Your fellow deputies screwed the case up, pure and simple, and were ripped to shreds by Hardin, who is a pretty damn good defense attorney, as he was a pretty damn good prosecutor for 20+ years.

A bright, hardworking officer would learn from their mistakes, not whine and blame everyone but themselves. Are you man enough to admit you are wrong, learn from it and not do the same stupid thing, or is it still the unfair system in this county, the DA's committing crimes and the all around bad people in the system, (evil defense attorneys), that penalizes PCT 5 deputies? Despite knowing going into the trial that they had subpar witnesses, the DA's Office made the right call and had a public trial and let 6 citizens decide.

Obviously, from your last line, you seem to say that you and they are unwilling to learn from their mistakes. If that is your attitude, you should be in a different line of work.

Your allegations that the case was lost because a DA committed a crime and behaved in an unethical manner caused quite a stir this afternoon at the DA's Office. Your mouth overloaded your experience and knowledge on this one.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:59:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2007 8:16:13 PM EDT by jadams951]

Originally Posted By ardvrk:
Jadams-

You are either ignoring my point about your original post, or fail to grasp it.

One, you were laying out a line of untrue crap. No DA was fired for "feeding information".So you say. Talking to others they say different. Will I truly know the truth. Probably not...but if I'm wrong then I already adressed that.

Two, your fellow deputies were extremely poor witnesses. We all have NIHTSA SFST manuals. The point is, they did not follow the rather simple instructions to carry out FSTS to be valid. The deputies invovled may be stellar fellows, but according to the prosecutor, defense attoenys, observers and everyone else involved, they shouldn't be making DWI arrests if they can't follow simple guidlines.If they made mistakes then shame on them. They'll learn from their mistakes. That's what all good people do.

So what they called a supervisor? If you missed that one, you really need to be more careful. They testified that when the young lady refused to blow, they called a supervisor to help them determine what the appropriate charge should be, DUI or DWI. That shows some pretty monumental indecision on their part. If they can't decide if she was DWI, how can a jury find beyond a reasonable doubt that she was? Does that point escape you?No I grasp it fairly well. You ever been law enforcement? Officers don't start out knowing everything and how to handle situations. In fact we start out knowing pretty much nothing. Indecision is very common at the start because they are unsure what to do. Did every officer there testify that they called a supervisor asking what to do? I doubt that. I bet that one deputy called and was asking for advice. I'd also bet he called not because he wasn't sure she was DWI but probably because he never ran into that situation before and asked for help in handling it because of inexperience.

Further, IIRC, you have less than 3 years on the job, so I really don't think you have a whole bunch of DWI's "under your belt". You certainly are not qualified to voice an opinion on how a trial was conducted, particularly when you are spouting drivel that is untrue, you were not present and appear, at best, biased. You say DWI trials are some of the most techncial trials you have been in. Exactly how many trials have you testified in? More than 5? As a PCt 5 deputy, even if you are in a contract neighborhood, or on the Toll Road, you just don't have that much experience.LOL...you don't have a clue how long I've been a cop. But I will say alot longer than 3 years. Now I won't even waste my time trying to say what I've been through and experienced but here's a hint I worked night shift for longer than you think I've been a cop running up and down westheimer and richmond. DWI arrests and trials...I've had plenty. You're right I wasn't present and neither were you. But you seem to think you know everything because of your buddies in the da's office. You don't know how much experience I have. So are you saying because of my agency I don't have experience? Please...now who's spouting drivel and ignorance of what they don't know.

Your fellow deputies screwed the case up, pure and simple, and were ripped to shreds by Hardin, who is a pretty damn good defense attorney, as he was a pretty damn good prosecutor for 20+ years.Maybe they were. At least we agree Rusty is a good attorney.

A bright, hardworking officer would learn from their mistakes, not whine and blame everyone but themselves. Are you man enough to admit you are wrong, learn from it and not do the same stupid thing, or is it still the unfair system in this county, the DA's committing crimes and the all around bad people in the system, (evil defense attorneys), that penalizes PCT 5 deputies? Despite knowing going into the trial that they had subpar witnesses, the DA's Office made the right call and had a public trial and let 6 citizens decide.So when did this become about me making mistakes. Only mistake I see here is maybe I'm wrong about the comment I posted of what I heard about the original prosecutor. When the hell did I ever say anything about the evil or unfair system? Hmmm...just can't seem to find it.

Obviously, from your last line, you seem to say that you and they are unwilling to learn from their mistakes. If that is your attitude, you should be in a different line of work.Hmmm...just can't seem to find that in my last comment either.

Your allegations that the case was lost because a DA committed a crime and behaved in an unethical manner caused quite a stir this afternoon at the DA's Office. Your mouth overloaded your experience and knowledge on this one.No this really gets me. When did I EVER say the cast was lost because a ada committed a crime or even blamed the da's office for losing the case? You probably told them that though. Point that out to me please. Your hands typed a bunch of shit in this last post of yours!
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