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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/26/2005 5:35:24 AM EDT
How about that?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:33:40 AM EDT
THe last chidlbirth class was last week, so I should be able to make it this week. Bad news is this might be the last one for a while, as the newest ar15.com member will be here soon.

Howard
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:11:05 AM EDT
sounds good to me
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:41:41 AM EDT
im there. just got my power back on. arrived yesterday to a 90 degree house. whoopee.....

also found a pistol I wanna buy. beretta px4. played with one today. COOL gun, I think even the beretta-naysayers will have a hard time putting this one down.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:55:25 AM EDT
I'll be there

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:52:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
im there. just got my power back on. arrived yesterday to a 90 degree house. whoopee.....

also found a pistol I wanna buy. beretta px4. played with one today. COOL gun, I think even the beretta-naysayers will have a hard time putting this one down.



get another AR or AK first
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:57:14 PM EDT
I should make it to this one, barring another hurricane.

Alpine
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:01:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 4:04:52 PM EDT by Voldermortist]

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
im there. just got my power back on. arrived yesterday to a 90 degree house. whoopee.....

also found a pistol I wanna buy. beretta px4. played with one today. COOL gun, I think even the beretta-naysayers will have a hard time putting this one down.



get another AR or AK first



already on top of that.

ETA: and it's gonna be a YUGO ak too just as soon as the UPS trucks are allowed to enter houston. =]
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:51:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 5:51:59 AM EDT by MauserMark]


ETA: and it's gonna be a YUGO ak too just as soon as the UPS trucks are allowed to enter houston. =]



nice....where did you order it from? I've kinda taken a path to the darkside lately and am buying up AKs now, ARs just bored me. The Yugo is definately on my to buy list.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:11:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 6:23:37 AM EDT by Voldermortist]

Originally Posted By MauserMark:


ETA: and it's gonna be a YUGO ak too just as soon as the UPS trucks are allowed to enter houston. =]



nice....where did you order it from? I've kinda taken a path to the darkside lately and am buying up AKs now, ARs just bored me. The Yugo is definately on my to buy list.




bought a handpicked kit from centerfire systems for 108.96. they were 89 bucks plus 10 extra for handpicking. so most were pure shit, but I think I'll get lucky with this. if not, I'll just send it back and get one of their unissued ones for $279 and have blackwell build it for me. when I asked for the kit I expressed emphasis on pitting and rust and that the finish I didnt care about. I think the one I get will be fine. I mean like presto99 says, it's not a bench rifle.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:29:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 6:49:23 AM EDT by MauserMark]

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:

bought a handpicked kit from centerfire systems for 108.96. they were 89 bucks plus 10 extra for handpicking. so most were pure shit, but I think I'll get lucky with this. if not, I'll just send it back and get one of their unissued ones for $279 and have blackwell build it for me. when I asked for the kit I expressed emphasis on pitting and rust and that the finish I didnt care about. I think the one I get will be fine. I mean like presto99 says, it's not a bench rifle.



who's gonna build it? and where did you get a receiver from?

I'm really interested, I might order one for the heck of it this week if you know a builder in the Houston area.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:45:16 AM EDT
Can someone shoot me an address for the Bar so I can figure out where it is....Oh yeah, obviously I'm in
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:58:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Marine2f2:
Can someone shoot me an address for the Bar so I can figure out where it is....Oh yeah, obviously I'm in



maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=160+West+Gray+St&csz=houston%2C+tx&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 9:14:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 9:18:43 AM EDT by Voldermortist]

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:

bought a handpicked kit from centerfire systems for 108.96. they were 89 bucks plus 10 extra for handpicking. so most were pure shit, but I think I'll get lucky with this. if not, I'll just send it back and get one of their unissued ones for $279 and have blackwell build it for me. when I asked for the kit I expressed emphasis on pitting and rust and that the finish I didnt care about. I think the one I get will be fine. I mean like presto99 says, it's not a bench rifle.



who's gonna build it? and where did you get a receiver from?

I'm really interested, I might order one for the heck of it this week if you know a builder in the Houston area.



blackwell industries, and he's not in the houston area but his program for $300 is worth it.

builds it on receiver and US parts supplied by him. proper headspacing etc etc, refinishes it in parkerization and testfires it to make sure everything is properly working. I'm probably going to end up spending $350 cause I want a scope mount on it.


http://blackwellindustries.com/page5.html


there you go.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 10:41:33 AM EDT
Kit - 108.96
Built labor - 325


Add another $100 and you could have an AR.


Stripped lower from Randy - $100
Kit from most suppliers - 450ish.


Thats the way I would have gone. Better accuracy, most aftermarket options and most important, better ergonomics.

Link Posted: 9/27/2005 10:51:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 10:52:54 AM EDT by MauserMark]

Originally Posted By Timanator:
Kit - 108.96
Built labor - 325


Add another $100 and you could have an AR.


Stripped lower from Randy - $100
Kit from most suppliers - 450ish.


Thats the way I would have gone. Better accuracy, most aftermarket options and most important, better ergonomics.




dude, some of us collect weapons for the historical aspect, a Yugo AK usually has a lot of history/blooshed behind them. I specifically wanted one with the fixed stock to have soldier engravings. We don't all just build ARs just because of what it offers. My one AR is a real M16A1 upper on a lower I built, don't really feel I need a tricked out M4gery, I'd rather collect rarities, like Swiss rifles, mausers and rare AKs. But that's just me. And, no, the newest AK's (101-105) can easily rival an M4 in accuracy, oh and my AK74 SBR from Chris Butler doesn't shoot shit back into the bolt and carrier (you forgot that part)
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 10:53:19 AM EDT
You going to come tonight?


Originally Posted By Timanator:
Kit - 108.96
Built labor - 325


Add another $100 and you could have an AR.


Stripped lower from Randy - $100
Kit from most suppliers - 450ish.


Thats the way I would have gone. Better accuracy, most aftermarket options and most important, better ergonomics.


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 11:16:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Timanator:
Kit - 108.96
Built labor - 325


Add another $100 and you could have an AR.


Stripped lower from Randy - $100
Kit from most suppliers - 450ish.


Thats the way I would have gone. Better accuracy, most aftermarket options and most important, better ergonomics.




dude, some of us collect weapons for the historical aspect, a Yugo AK usually has a lot of history/blooshed behind them. I specifically wanted one with the fixed stock to have soldier engravings. We don't all just build ARs just because of what it offers. My one AR is a real M16A1 upper on a lower I built, don't really feel I need a tricked out M4gery, I'd rather collect rarities, like Swiss rifles, mausers and rare AKs. But that's just me. And, no, the newest AK's (101-105) can easily rival an M4 in accuracy, oh and my AK74 SBR from Chris Butler doesn't shoot shit back into the bolt and carrier (you forgot that part)



and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock. Mark's old beater rifle 20 inch from the shoot a few weeks back was the smoothest ar-15 I shot out there. very nice..... I'm betting if I could find one of those heavy tungsten buffers the thing would literally rival the recoil of a bb gun..... nothing in other words.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 11:40:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock. Mark's old beater rifle 20 inch from the shoot a few weeks back was the smoothest ar-15 I shot out there. very nice..... I'm betting if I could find one of those heavy tungsten buffers the thing would literally rival the recoil of a bb gun..... nothing in other words.



yeah sorry about that, I think I remember one popping you in the face, guess that proves why the deflector was later integrated, not to mention minor changes, cleaning kits so that the horrible episodes of marines in fox holes swabbing out their barrels in the middle of combat, while NVA/Vietcong over-ran them with perfectly functioning AKs wouldn't happen again......TIM
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 11:43:39 AM EDT
nah burned my neck slightly... wasn't as bad as mace's ak though.

I just last week finally managed to peel away that dark burned piece of skin. stupid me, I shouldn't have let the barrel slip between my index and middle finger but those stocks are not big, so shit happens.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 11:55:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
nah burned my neck slightly... wasn't as bad as mace's ak though.

I just last week finally managed to peel away that dark burned piece of skin. stupid me, I shouldn't have let the barrel slip between my index and middle finger but those stocks are not big, so shit happens.



holy S@$% that must hurt. Grabbed a few hot barrels before, accidently grabbed my A1 upper after shooting it on Keith's full auto lower with about 6 mags, yeah, I had a blister the next day, I think I grabbed it cause it was falling down from the table. oooopppsss.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 12:57:29 PM EDT
I have a a1 that I built that is very similar to what you describe Mark's as being. Was a pretty much mint m16a1 upper that I mated with a stag lower, and early no trap-door stock. Super accurate gun with 55 grain bullets, and you can hit a pie sized target at 100 to 200 meters without really even trying. I have never really noticed any brass coming back at me though, but I am right handed. I built it so I could do Nam reenacting originally, and found out about this board while trying to get the parts together. Will probably build a M4gery or a Flat Top A2 next though.

Howard



Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock. Mark's old beater rifle 20 inch from the shoot a few weeks back was the smoothest ar-15 I shot out there. very nice..... I'm betting if I could find one of those heavy tungsten buffers the thing would literally rival the recoil of a bb gun..... nothing in other words.



yeah sorry about that, I think I remember one popping you in the face, guess that proves why the deflector was later integrated, not to mention minor changes, cleaning kits so that the horrible episodes of marines in fox holes swabbing out their barrels in the middle of combat, while NVA/Vietcong over-ran them with perfectly functioning AKs wouldn't happen again......TIM

Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:17:00 PM EDT
TIME?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:28:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marine2f2:
TIME?




6:30-9:30. same time every forking week
sun-in-num botching ice hole cork soakers.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:28:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock.



you sure you want a 1:7 twist? That kind of limits you to heavier grain, more expensive ammunition.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:45:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock.



you sure you want a 1:7 twist? That kind of limits you to heavier grain, more expensive ammunition.



please don't confuse the boy anymore.
he will be looking for a 1:8
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:46:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock.



you sure you want a 1:7 twist? That kind of limits you to heavier grain, more expensive ammunition.



please don't confuse the boy anymore.
he will be looking for a 1:8



well my other question would be where can you find a 1:7 pencil barrel?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:52:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock.



you sure you want a 1:7 twist? That kind of limits you to heavier grain, more expensive ammunition.



please don't confuse the boy anymore.
he will be looking for a 1:8



well my other question would be where can you find a 1:7 pencil barrel?



that's not important right now.
what is important is that's what he wants

Link Posted: 9/27/2005 2:10:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock.



you sure you want a 1:7 twist? That kind of limits you to heavier grain, more expensive ammunition.





62 grn is fine and I think 55 gr will work in it as well, if not I'll just get an a2 1:9 kit from model1sales or from jtdist and build an a2 ar-15.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 2:13:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 2:15:15 PM EDT by Voldermortist]

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and on top of that, the next ar I build is going to be using an a1 upper with brass deflector and 20 inch pencil barrel with 1:7 twist on a stagarms lower with a1 stock.



you sure you want a 1:7 twist? That kind of limits you to heavier grain, more expensive ammunition.



please don't confuse the boy anymore.
he will be looking for a 1:8



well my other question would be where can you find a 1:7 pencil barrel?



that's not important right now.
what is important is that's what he wants




well can always have one built, but since HK940 here is insistant, I shall interrogate him at tonight's meeting over how the barrel twists affect the movement of different grn rounds. I know that low grn rounds will possibly tumble in tubes with faster bore twists, i.e. 1:7 but I'm fairly certain I heard 55 grn will work in 1:7. if not 1:9 is fine...

UPDATE: confirmed. 55 grain rounds will work fine in 1:7 bbls. so enough of that.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:07:29 PM EDT
55 grain shoots as well in a 1/7 as it does in a 1/9. The 1/9 was originally developed to shoot M855 in case you did not know that.

1/9 just means you run about 50/50 odds of not being able to use the uber destructo 75 grain ammo. As a trade off you can shoot some obscure 40 grain varmint ammo types and it wont tear itself apart midflight.

Dont think I will make it guys. I have a paper due and I needed to have it done and leave 30 min ago. Rolling black outs have shut off power for the last 4 hours.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:28:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 3:34:06 PM EDT by Timanator]
Not sure where you can get a 1:7 lightweight at a good price. Here is a pic of my Colt.


This guys sells them:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=248873



Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:29:04 PM EDT
Voldy, my advice is to stay away from pencil and 1:7 barrels. I'm kind of a noob but I've had a few ARs. The 1:9 bushy HBAR was the best. All grains seem to work great out of it, especially the 62 grain, they gave the best groups. I wouldn't go above 1:9, my Colt is 1:12, and can only shoot effectively 55 gr. anything above that sucks. But the barrel was designed specifically for the 55gr, so it's damn accurate with that specific weight. The only draw back is I notice my groups open up a lot more when the barrel gets hotter than my HBAR did, so it's a sacrifice you have to make if you want to haul around a lighter barrel.

-mark
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:44:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 6:46:00 PM EDT by Voldermortist]
ak kit is here. box was waiting by the door as soon as I stepped inside. this thing is in awesome condition. no pitting in the bore whatsoever no rust anywhere either. no PITTING anywhere at all. this is an awesome kit. then again I had it handpicked..... I wonder if the thing has even been shot cause the rifling looks pretty strong. then again I don't know exactly how sharp the rifling on a yugo ak is supposed to be. will be sending ak off soon to get it built
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:58:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
Voldy, my advice is to stay away from pencil and 1:7 barrels. I'm kind of a noob but I've had a few ARs. The 1:9 bushy HBAR was the best. All grains seem to work great out of it, especially the 62 grain, they gave the best groups. I wouldn't go above 1:9, my Colt is 1:12, and can only shoot effectively 55 gr. anything above that sucks. But the barrel was designed specifically for the 55gr, so it's damn accurate with that specific weight. The only draw back is I notice my groups open up a lot more when the barrel gets hotter than my HBAR did, so it's a sacrifice you have to make if you want to haul around a lighter barrel.

-mark



I had a 14.5" Bushy govt profiled M4 1/7 twist that could shoot sub MOA groups. It shot the same groups with Q3131A that my 1/9 barrel twist shot. There is no reason to NOT go 1/7. What is your experience with 1/7 barrels that makes you not reccomend them?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 7:05:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 7:08:03 PM EDT by Marine2f2]
I agree with DevL....my bushy 14.5" 1:7 shot very very well.

Although I must say, I recently had a rifle built with a DPMS upper with a very heavy 1:9 barrel that pushes 52 gr and 68 gr very well (I'm getting cosistent 1/2" groups with both)

But, comparing the M4 profile 14.5" barrel to the heavy, 20", 1:9 barrel is like comparing apples and oranges
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 7:09:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

I had a 14.5" Bushy govt profiled M4 1/7 twist that could shoot sub MOA groups. It shot the same groups with Q3131A that my 1/9 barrel twist shot. There is no reason to NOT go 1/7. What is your experience with 1/7 barrels that makes you not reccomend them?



I'll take your word on it then. I've shot all twists mentioned, but to my knowledge the 1/7 works better with higher grains, if not then what's the point of making a 1/7, 1/8,1/9,1/12? I'm sure there's more to the barrel than twist that determines what grain works best. But as bushmaster says one their manuals, 1/9 seems to work the best with all grains.

-mark
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 4:33:48 AM EDT
1/9 doesn't have fast enough spin on the barrel, I've heard it's a 50/50 chance with high grain rounds...
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:09:04 AM EDT
My 1:9 shoots Black Hills 75gr Match consistently around 3/4 " at 100yds....not sure about longer distances though.....I'll report on that after today, I get to go to the range again
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:26:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
1/9 doesn't have fast enough spin on the barrel, I've heard it's a 50/50 chance with high grain rounds...



I would of thought, the higher twist rates put more spin on the bullet?
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:48:46 AM EDT
The rate of twist is over distance. 1 twist per 7 inches, feet, miles, john holmes, whatever. So 1 in 12 would be slower than 1 in 7.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 9:04:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 9:05:31 AM EDT by DevL]
Bushmaster says 1/9 is best because they sell 1/9 barrels. They also say M16 carriers are illegal in your upper.

Spin on the bullet is dependant on twist and barrel length (velocity) and ammo velocity. The longer the barrel, the higher the velocity, the higher the RPMs of the bullet. A 20" 1/9 will most certainly stabilise 75 grain ammo, 16" pretty good chance, 14.5" less chance, 10.3" not very likely, etc. The more copper fouling the worse the barrel will do. The lower pressure the ammo the less the RPMs and thus stabilisation. Newer barrels yeild higher velocities than broken in or worn barrels.

5.56 75 grain from a new barrel should work out of most all non SBR 1/9 twist barrels.

An old, worn out 10.5" 1/9 with lots of copper fouling shooting .223 pressure 75 grain on a cold day might not hit the target at 100 yards.

What does this have to do with the Wet Spot on West Gray? I dont know.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 9:20:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 9:21:03 AM EDT by MauserMark]

Originally Posted By DevL:

What does this have to do with the Wet Spot on West Gray? I dont know.



nothing, the conversation just came up because Voldy said he wanted a pencil barrel with 1/7 twist.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:58:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By DevL:

What does this have to do with the Wet Spot on West Gray? I dont know.



nothing, the conversation just came up because Voldy said he wanted a pencil barrel with 1/7 twist.




Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:05:01 AM EDT
Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Could two African swallows harnessed togather cary one coconut?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 12:13:42 PM EDT
OK either that was in the wrong thread or you just went WAY over my head!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:41:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
OK either that was in the wrong thread or you just went WAY over my head!




HIJACKED THREAD!
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