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Posted: 3/14/2005 6:32:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:36:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 6:39:12 AM EST by FightingHellfish]

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
And possibly this forums.

The AZ Forum has became an embarrassment for me and the Hometown Community and it will end here today. When I went to GB about the idea of a Hometown he was reluctant at first but, after much prodding he agreed if I agreed to run it. For over 2 years it has really gone on without a hitch until recently. I understand why some of you are pissed off because of previous actions that have taken place in here but, you can't mount a mutiny everytime something doesn't go your way.

So I will now have GB seperate AZ and NM from each other into their own forums. If AZ continues to be a pissing fest like it has in the past, I will just ask GB to do away with it.

Before you are ready to spout off about this, think about how many other forums are in this community and the fact that none has had even 1% of the problems we have had in here.


I will be out for most of the day but, I sincerely hope things are better when I return.



None of the rest are half as much fun, half as interesting or generate half as much real world shooting and cameradery as this one. This isn't the worst Hometown Forum, it's the best one. It's too bad you guys don't see that.

A lot of us in Arizona are idiots. Just let us enjoy our idiot forum, please.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:39:17 AM EST
I rarely come here and browse. Doesn't look like I'm not missing much. It's almost sad.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:42:25 AM EST
Ok. Sounds fair. Not pissing but how about an explanation why the bowflex thread was locked? I can see locking the ones that are inflamatory, but why the bowflex? I see in the WA forum that there is a thread about planting lawns a topic no more related to guns than exercise equip. If there is something I'm missing compleatly let me know it seems I'm always playing catch up around here.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:42:53 AM EST
Here come the snowbird jackasses again.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:53:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:03:11 AM EST by Rip_Roarin_Wacko]
I find it odd that NO ONE in the Arizona forum ever complains about what is said in here.
There always seems to be some staph member with his pussy hurt that raises hell about the AZ forum.


My membership is set to expire in a few months, but I think I'll let it expire right now.


Close down the AZ forum. That will teach those assholes who's really the boss around here.

To HELL WITH YOU AND THE REST OF THE STAFF RUNNING AROUND LIKE A BUNCH OF CANDY ASS FAGGOTS WITH YOUR BUTT PLUGS ON FIRE


Adios, asshole!
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:58:18 AM EST
Make the AZ HTF part of Ed's Bear Pit. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:58:24 AM EST
Looks like it's time to run off some more long time paying members because others NOT FROM ARIZONA want to stick their noses into dark cracks where they don't belong and whine and bitch because they're offended by something.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:03:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:05:29 AM EST by kuhlewulf]
It would seem to me that lacking a CoC violation there is no such thing as an improper topic for a hometown forum. This is supposed to be where we can talk amongst ourselves and deal with things that are important to us on a local level. Not all things must be gun related was my understanding and we had our own local mods to police us. I am begining to feel like the staff and mods look at us as an unwelcome group to be singled out and watched. I had addressed an issue I had to most of the senior staff (via direct email) and was ignored. Prior to that I was making arrangements to get my dealer membership and and to bring another company on baord as a potential advertiser. But the treatment I received has given me pause. Why is it that friendly local arguements are dealt with like a race riot, and the selective enforcement policies of STAFF and MODS are ignored? Youre right, this has gone to far for too long. Do whatever you feel you must, but only threaten those that might actually fear you, and don't ever think any of us do.

Guys, when the AZHTF is gone I'll see you at ARIZONASHOOTING.COM
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:05:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:13:26 AM EST
So instead of dealing with INDIVIDUALS who are having problems you blame EVERYONE and threaten to yank the forum.
There is a COC for a reason I presume ??
If someone violates it, deal with that person.
Tough concept I guess.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:15:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:26:31 AM EST by MudBug]
I haven't participated in any of these so called "Uprisings" here in the past, but this is a crock of fucking shit. You come in with statements like


The AZ Forum has became an embarrassment for me and the Hometown Community and it will end here today


And then anounce that if there are any more problems you will have this forum closed. Your post is a blatent troll, your statement meant to do nothing but incite anger and another "Uprising" so that will will have all the evidence you need to closs the forum.

And this is right after you come in here (A forum that you don't moderate) and lock a thread for no damn reason (The Bowflex thread).

I guess you're somebody "Special" being site staff and all, but this latest round of thread locking by room seems overbearing and smells like an attempt to kick up dust. Well it worked, aren't we just a fine batch of dancing monkeys.


ETA: Mr Avila, I do understand what you are saying, and agree that at times this place gets a little out of control, but this plan to judge then sentence this forum based on how things go today is destined to end just one way, with the AZHTF dying. Do you really think that these "individualistic Jackasses" (as they seem to have been named) are not going to react negatively to the first post in this thread? Hell, have you ever had a problem with me, or seen my name here in the thick of the fight... I don't think so, but this has been enough to get me, one who doesn't get involved in this shit, upset.

This won't go well, the screaming, feet kicking, and floor pounding will begin soon.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:15:43 AM EST

the fact that none has had even 1% of the problems we have had in here.

And what problems are those?
I think one of the things most people, mods and Staff included tend to forget is that on the whole WE ACTUALLY KNOW EACH OTHER!
Unlike most of the other forums, we all get together and shoot, have parties, and just visit with each other.
If we occasionaly get into a pissing match, you can rest assured that we still like each other.
Every "problem" you allude to has been excallibrated by an outside influence that has made matters worse.
I'm sorry that anyone would threaten to take away our HometownForum, but then again you have the buttons and are going to do what you want, so I'm not going to change or beg to suit your idea of playing nice.
I would however remind you that if you decide to remove the AZ forum, then I expect no less of any other forum that violates these same rules.
I see "kill the cop" threads in GD all the time, and those appear to pass inspection.
How many times do you masterbate a day, OK in GD.
I just took a giant one, OK in GD.
FU threads go on for 12 pages, OK in GD.
Various pics that are quite improper, OK in GD.
The Pit, a forum specificaly designed to bring out the worse and most obnoxious in posters, ACTUALLY CREATED FOR THAT REASON!
And yet, we are not allowed to ask a question without it being locked and a smart a** comment like "take it to IM is left?
I respect and like the Avilas, and really have nothing against Mods and Staff, but I honestly believe there is a double standard that has been imposed on us for the apparent amusement of some.
Mr. Avila, I have nothing but respect for you, your family, and this site, so if you feel that I am out of line with what I have said above, feel free to lock my account and I will hold no ill will.
Thanks, GS808/Kevin
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:18:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:23:24 AM EST
Interestingly, I have tried not to be a "troublemaker" here with only a couple of exceptions, and that was saved for a single asshat to, IMO, deserved it.

However, never have I been enraged, offended, pissed, peeved, tweaked, or othewise insulted by ANY thread that has appeared in the Arizona forum. Never.

Not when the dreaded "T" word raised its ugly head, not when someone asked a question about exercise equipment. Not when someone was disussing the merits of a certain much-maligned terrier breed. Heck, not even when someone called ME names, etc.

If we, the users of said forum, are not in any sort of snit over how this is run, why should anyone else be?

The Supreme Court indicated that local community standards play into the definition of what is obscene/pornographic. Thus, what is accepted in California might be downright horrifying in Indiana. That's fine. However, if someone from Indiana travels to California, then gets their panties in a wad because they see that "Manhole Magazine" exists and is for sale in San Francisco, do they have any right to complain?

The same could be said about the opposite situation, where a Californian visiting Indiana cannot find a copy of "Piss Drinkers Monthly" during his vacation and starts bitching about it.

It appears that Arizonans who find the AZ HTF too rough and tumble just don't visit here. Fine...just like changing the channel when a Jane Fonda movie comes on. You don't go destroying TVs or work to shut down the TMC or AMC channels, do you? Maybe you do if you're a mod from out-of-state. At least that the appearance of what I have seen here. Again, just my opinion.

Either this is for the Az folks (or questions / comments from others about our state) or it is not.

It appears "it is not" is the prevailing attitude, and that someone in Indiana believes s/he has the knowledge and right to know what's best for California.

We already have people like that....the ones that want to run the lives of others. They are called Congressmen.

Just my $0.02, for what it's worth.

Tim Weaver
Practical Tactical, LLC
Glendale, AZ
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:25:21 AM EST
Ed,

It's kind of like when the police show up at a reported domestic disturbance. The police arrest the husband then the wife tries to kill the police officers claiming it was just a loud argument.

The problem here is that staff assumes there is a domestic disturbance and shows up. Then evryone jumps on them.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:30:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:37:49 AM EST
<COMMENT REMOVED- COC VIOLATION>

Look familiar Ed? Thats what happens everywhere else when it get out of hand. Compare that to the AZ forum version

System Message -=THREAD LOCKED=-

Why the difference? And please read my above post and answer. I've waited over a month since my problem with Aimless, still nothing. You got my $20 so you don't care about my $400?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:41:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By TimW:
Interestingly, I have tried not to be a "troublemaker" here with only a couple of exceptions, and that was saved for a single asshat to, IMO, deserved it.

However, never have I been enraged, offended, pissed, peeved, tweaked, or othewise insulted by ANY thread that has appeared in the Arizona forum. Never.

Not when the dreaded "T" word raised its ugly head, not when someone asked a question about exercise equipment. Not when someone was disussing the merits of a certain much-maligned terrier breed. Heck, not even when someone called ME names, etc.

If we, the users of said forum, are not in any sort of snit over how this is run, why should anyone else be?

The Supreme Court indicated that local community standards play into the definition of what is obscene/pornographic. Thus, what is accepted in California might be downright horrifying in Indiana. That's fine. However, if someone from Indiana travels to California, then gets their panties in a wad because they see that "Manhole Magazine" exists and is for sale in San Francisco, do they have any right to complain?

The same could be said about the opposite situation, where a Californian visiting Indiana cannot find a copy of "Piss Drinkers Monthly" during his vacation and starts bitching about it.

It appears that Arizonans who find the AZ HTF too rough and tumble just don't visit here. Fine...just like changing the channel when a Jane Fonda movie comes on. You don't go destroying TVs or work to shut down the TMC or AMC channels, do you? Maybe you do if you're a mod from out-of-state. At least that the appearance of what I have seen here. Again, just my opinion.

Either this is for the Az folks (or questions / comments from others about our state) or it is not.

It appears "it is not" is the prevailing attitude, and that someone in Indiana believes s/he has the knowledge and right to know what's best for California.

We already have people like that....the ones that want to run the lives of others. They are called Congressmen.

Just my $0.02, for what it's worth.

Tim Weaver
Practical Tactical, LLC
Glendale, AZ




Are those magazines available through Practical Tactical? I'm tired of having to drive all the way the way to AzExarms to see the latest copy.....
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:42:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:46:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 7:48:42 AM EST by a320az]
My plan is working!!!

They are all just jealous anyways, AZ is the best state in the Country. They figure if they cant live here and play with cool shit, they will come to the forum and lock our threads.

BTW: I think Pitbulls are illegal in WA and NY.....

ETA: Muahahahahaahhahaahahhaa
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:47:16 AM EST
Okay, I understand why the pit bull thread was locked. But... I'm not seeing it with the bowflex thread.

The locked Bowflex thread



Not trying to stir the pot, just alleviate some of my own confusion. What was it violating?

Confused,

Mike
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:54:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:54:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By prebans:
Okay, I understand why the pit bull thread was locked. But... I'm not seeing it with the bowflex thread.

The locked Bowflex thread



Not trying to stir the pot, just alleviate some of my own confusion. What was it violating?

Confused,

Mike



Silly man, it was locked because a staff member thought it should be.
No other reason is needed.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:55:14 AM EST
Ed,

I understand what you are talking about. However, what I don't see is why this forum has been treated differently from GD.

Why was the bowflex topic locked? What was the COC violation? Why was the Pitbull topic locked? What was the COC violation? (And if the COC violations were in a specific comment, why wasn't THAT comment deleted, THAT poster punished, and THAT reason given?)

Everything after that is a direct consequence of a staff member coming into this forum and locking threads with no reason. That incites the 'rebellion' in this forum. If there is a reason to lock a thread, just let us know WHY the thread was locked. If there is a person causing problems, deal with THAT person.

As you know, most of us are very nice, reasonable people here. Please deal with the people who are not reasonable, not those of us who are.

I'm going to lunch, and then it looks like I'm digging up my Arizonashooting.com password....
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:55:50 AM EST
I haven't looked at that thread for a while, but didn't somebody in Tucson offer to sell a used Bowflex to the poster? Maybe a tight ass interpretation of the COC could call that an EE violation of the COC.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:56:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:57:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:00:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By wiggy762:

Originally Posted By kuhlewulf:
<COMMENT REMOVED- COC VIOLATION>

Look familiar Ed? Thats what happens everywhere else when it get out of hand. Compare that to the AZ forum version

System Message -=THREAD LOCKED=-

Why the difference? And please read my above post and answer. I've waited over a month since my problem with Aimless, still nothing. You got my $20 so you don't care about my $400?



[joining the fray]

As a Mod here, in this forum (regardless of my state of residence ), I can tell you that I have used the lightest methods of 'correction'.

Surely you admit that there are some here that take no greater sport than egging on a situation. The MO is something like this....
- Find a thread with a bit of dissention...(helps with boredom)
- advance dissention into widespread war...(gotta get some excitement going!)
- post about warring thread in GD or Team forum...(can't perform without an audience)
- push the CoC until broken...(must have in order to make the next step)
- Mods/Staff intervene...(each of us have different trigger points)
- battle lines are drawn and the war is on...(Staff/Mods vs. AZ Posters)
- Sr. Staff comes in and halts the festivities...(kind of like now)
- 87 new threads about what went wrong...( and how the Staff/Mods were off base)


Sound familiar?



Wiggy,

Why haven't those posters been dealt with?

And why does staff seem to want to deal with this directly, and not through you and Treetop?

It would seem to me that would be the correct method. When I need something done out in the shop, I don't go to the worker to deal with it directly. I speak to the shop foreman, who takes care of it. That should be what happens in this situation, also.

I'm really going now...
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:01:30 AM EST
Naw, were just trying to get Ed to come and visit again.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:03:08 AM EST
And staff starts another fire. That's like three fires in two months. You guys need to stop playing with matches.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:06:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 8:10:34 AM EST by teufel-hunden0861]
i can see why the pitbull thread was locked, that was getting a bit out of hand.. so tell me why the bowflex thread was locked. I was involved in two different threads and neither one of those was locked before it got out of hand and some VERY foul words were exchanged between me and a few other members.. if HB2325 needs support and LEO please read weren't locked before they got to 4 pages of shit slinging, why would the bowflex thread be locked for NO shit talking at all? hell, I had to get the sand out of my mangina over the flippin issues, and now they're in the past... FYI.. I got to meet a few of the guys that was involved in the other threads, and can say that I'll be in touch with them in the future, they're pretty damn good guys, and were kind enough to invite me out for more shoots

edited to add that Ed Sr offered to lock the threads after the issues were settled...
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:14:14 AM EST
Silly question I guess, but why ISN'T the AZ forum PRIMARILY for AZ people ?
I mean whats the point if it isn't ?
I'm not saying others can't come here and ask questions regarding AZ issues or about moving to AZ, vacations etc...
But many people (including some mods and staff) come here to dump a turd in the punchbowl and leave. Then the self appointed clean up crew comes along with their panties in a bunch and seem to want to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:18:04 AM EST
This is what I posted in the Bowflex post.

________________________________________________________________________________

I have a bowflex down here in Tucson my wife needed for some rehab. It's about 3 years old with little use and set up in our spare room.

For the right price I'll drive it up to phoenix and set it up.

_________________________________________________________________________________

I sent a E-mail like they ask no big deal.

I talked to EdAvilaSr he said no problem with my post. He just doesn't want any more name calling or personal attacks.

Neanderthal
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:19:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:20:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:23:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:25:57 AM EST
Here is the Bowflex link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=13&t=196126

Please tell me, us, the AZ Hometown Forum which rule I/we broke and I/we will follow the rules.

I don't get what was done wrong on this thread in the first place.

Y-
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:28:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 8:29:20 AM EST by a320az]
1GUNRUNNER since we are splitting up the AZ/NM I nominate myself to be the new AZ Hometown Mod!!!!


All <---(commonfolk) to <--(a320az)..... Muahahahahahaha
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:28:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:29:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:31:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Striker:

Originally Posted By yasenovo:
Here is the Bowflex link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=13&t=196126

Please tell me, us, the AZ Hometown Forum which rule I/we broke and I/we will follow the rules.

I don't get what was done wrong on this thread in the first place.

Y-


I didn't lock it but I'm going to take a stab at why. It was a "for sale" thread..which belongs in the equipment exchange forum..not here.



No, it was a question asked in a post by the thread initiator.
Someone posted that they had one if interested.
It was not a "for sale" thread.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:32:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:36:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:37:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Striker:

Originally Posted By yasenovo:
Here is the Bowflex link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=13&t=196126

Please tell me, us, the AZ Hometown Forum which rule I/we broke and I/we will follow the rules.

I don't get what was done wrong on this thread in the first place.

Y-


I didn't lock it but I'm going to take a stab at why. It was a "for sale" thread..which belongs in the equipment exchange forum..not here.



Actually, it was exactly what this forum is supposed to be about, local stuff.

Thread title;


Any place to buy a Bowflex/Total Gym/etc in Phoenix?



Thread starters first post.


The $150/$200 shipping charge on the Bowflex is gonna hurt if I order one. Are there any local places that sell reasonable priced, sub $1500, all-in-one workout units?



This was a guy looking for a local dealer for the product, some place (IN PHOENIX ARIZONA) that sells the product so that he could just walk in a buy one.

The fact that somebody else mentioned that he knew someone that might want to sell it is irrelevent since that was not what the thread was about.

Because somebody got all power mad and locked the thread, the original poster never got an answer to his question.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:43:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:02:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
The Bowflex thread was locked as it became into a thread about buying a Bowflex from another. The initial question was no problem but, when the next guys says "I got one I'll sell you" it becomes something that needs to be in the EE or handled via email after that. Nothing sinister about it. If it was that big of a deal I would have moved it to trash. His point was made he wanted to buy one locally and save the shipping. It was/is still there for everyone to see. Hell the factory is about 60 miles south of me and last year I went with a friend and he picked up 2 from there. A simple call to them would have answered to you have any dealers in AZ local to me.

The fact that it was locked is not nearly as big as you guys want to make it out to be. Just something you can find to mount another AZ Forum meltdown over. Let it go.



So the thread starters post is locked because some one else post that they might have what they were looking for ?
So screw the guy and his request for info.............
Ah to hell with it, who cares, have fun, knock yourselves out.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:04:12 AM EST

Hell the factory is about 60 miles south of me and last year I went with a friend and he picked up 2 from there.


So, ya wanna sell me one 1GR?
Just kidding, just kidding!
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:07:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 9:08:02 AM EST by SPECTRE]

Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:

Hell the factory is about 60 miles south of me and last year I went with a friend and he picked up 2 from there.


So, ya wanna sell me one 1GR?
Just kidding, just kidding!



LOCK THE THREAD !!! LOCK THE THREAD !!!!

So whats the total this time, how many members locked or banned today ??
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:10:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:13:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Spectre it is pretty early for a count.

How about you become part of the solution rather than carrying on trying to be part of the problem?



Ok
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