I just took the CCW course at American Shooters in Henderson to get my permit recurrent and have some questions about some of the information presented.

I am familiar with NLV and Boulder City having more restrictive laws than the County or State statutes, specifically regarding firearms in your vehicle. But we were told yesterday that it is also illegal to carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle in Henderson as well, unless you have a CCW permit. Is this correct and when did that change happen if it is true. He also said that loaded means a firearm and ammo anywhere inside the vehicle whether or not the firearm actually has any ammo in it or not.

We were also told that it is also now a felony if you are caught with a concealed firearm and don't have your permit on your person or don't have one at all. Is that true? I checked the NRS on the state of NV website and it shows the crime is a gross misdemeanor if you don't have a permit and a just $25 fine if you do have a valid CCW permit but don't have it on you when you are carrying.

There were several other statements that were made that didn't seem right to me as well. Is having a firearm in a range bag in your vehicle considered on your person and hence concealed and illegal without a CCW permit?

Are the standards for a justifiable shooting the same inside your home as they are out on the street? It was implied in the course that they are.

Have the laws changed that much or was the information presented incorrect? I left the class with more confusion than knowledge.

On a positive note, the course was relatively painless considering you are required to be there for 8 hours. I wasn't looking for instruction, just to fill the squares and the course did that without too much pain and suffering.

that's the first i've heard about it not being legal to carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle in Hendertucky if you don't have a CCW. NRS prohibits loaded long arms (with one in the chamber) which mostly seems to be a anti-poaching regulation.

last time i checked, CCW without a permit was a misdemeanor for the first offense.  keep it in your wallet and don't leave the house without your wallet. if you just lost your wallet, (between the time you left the house and the time you get stopped) i'd expect some leeway from a LEO... since if they run your plates, or your name they'll know if you actually have a CCW or not... so having to actually carry the CCW card and blue card seems a bit superfluous. still, that's the way the law reads, so it's what i try to do.

a gun in a range bag, backpack or anything else in your vehicle would not be "on your person" IMHO. if it's in the vehicle, it's cargo.

while we don't have the same kind of "castle law" as SC, if someone is IN MY HOME, i believe a reasonable person would conclude they ain't there for maid service... unless you have actually contracted with a maid service. having said that, you need to be "in fear for your life, or great bodily harm" before you shoot, and they need to have the means and opportunity to do you that harm.

now, perhaps a handful or related laws changed recently and i never heard about it, but since there are several WTF? statemnts that you're relating here, i'm inclined to suspect whoever told you this is suffering from some rectal/cranial inversion and needs a porthole where their belly button is.

would have been nice if you'd gotten "chapter and verse" (the actual numbers for the regs in question) from the instructor... whould make proving or disproving any of this much simpler.

A lot of instructors are usually misunderstood but it doesn't surprise me at all when instructors say things that give everyone the look.

That being said, I heard that the guy at Metro's CCW detail will be conducting his own classes soon.  This should be very interesting.

This is not legal advice. Always consult an attorney with specific questions regarding firearms laws.



Henderson Municipal Code doesn't mention concealed weapons in vehicles. It just addresses Concealed Weapon Permits without first having received written permission from the chief of police. The code is outdated, and preempted by State Statute.



NRS defines a loaded handgun as having a loaded magazine in the gun and an empty chamber (or a loaded chamber). Rifles and shotguns are not considered loaded in a vehicle if they have a loaded magazine or magazine tube, and an empty chamber (Fish and Game law).



If you have a valid CCW permit and it is not in your possession while carrying a concealed handgun, it is a misdemeanor punishable by a civil penalty of $25.00. Carrying a concealed handgun without no permit at all is a category C felony.



Transporting an unloaded firearm in a range bag in a vehicle in Nevada is not a crime. Concealed only applies to on the person, in a purse, briefcase, fanny pack, etc.



They are the same and are listed under NRS Chapter 200.



Laws change all the time. Therefore, it is  the responsibility of the permit holder to stay abreast of all Federal, State, County, and City laws.

Once again.... This is not legal advice.

Hope this helps.

Be Safe.

Joe

That is pretty much the way I understand the laws as well. I don't expect legal advice I can bet my life of but so much inaccurate/misleading information was pretty disappointing from a fairly well respected establishment.

Joe, I trust you are correct but can you direct me to the correct part of the NRS or other source?

Regarding justifiable homice, here is the definition I found:

NRS 200.120  “Justifiable homicide” defined.  Justifiable homicide is the killing of a human being in necessary self-defense, or in defense of habitation, property or person, against one who manifestly intends, or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against any person or persons who manifestly intend and endeavor, in a violent, riotous, tumultuous or surreptitious manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein.

So it appears to me that in regards to defense of habitation, the standard of necessary self defense that is required everywhere else is not the same.

A question on the definition of justifiable homicide in the NRS actually appears on the written test and the correct answer given by the instructor was only " being in necessary self-defense". Even though the other parts of the definition were listed and an all of the above answer choice included which I thought was correct. Has this changed or is there a different standard of justifiable homicide that applies to CCW or any citizen for that matter with or without a permit?



In the NRS I also found this regarding CCW without a permit:

NRS 202.350  Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions.

     1.  Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not:

     (a) Manufacture or cause to be manufactured, or import into the State, or keep, offer or expose for sale, or give, lend or possess any knife which is made an integral part of a belt buckle or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a switchblade knife, blackjack, slungshot, billy, sand-club, sandbag or metal knuckles;

     (b) Manufacture or cause to be manufactured, or import into the State, or keep, offer or expose for sale, or give, lend, possess or use a machine gun or a silencer, unless authorized by federal law;

     (c) With the intent to inflict harm upon the person of another, possess or use a nunchaku or trefoil; or

     (d) Carry concealed upon his or her person any:

           (1) Explosive substance, other than ammunition or any components thereof;

           (2) Dirk, dagger or machete;

           (3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon; or

           (4) Knife which is made an integral part of a belt buckle.

     2.  Except as otherwise provided in NRS 202.275 and 212.185, a person who violates any of the provisions of:

     (a) Paragraph (a) or (c) or subparagraph (2) or (4) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty:

           (1) For the first offense, of a gross misdemeanor.

           (2) For any subsequent offense, of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

(b) Paragraph (b) or subparagraph (1) or (3) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.


(edited to add the part I was missing)




If you have a CCW but don't have it on you:

NRS 202.3667  Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.

     1.  Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.

    2.  A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.

     (Added to NRS by 1995, 2724)






When is a brief case considered on your person? Carried in your hand, walking down the street? I would say yes in that case , but what about sitting on the passenger side car seat when you are driving? If this is the case what is the difference between this and a range bag with a gun in it in the same place? Does the same apply to a purse for a woman? Is a purse always considered on your person even if you are not physically carrying it?



Are there places other than the NRS that we (Clark Co. CCW holders) need to go to keep up to speed on the current laws? It really shouldn't be like rolling the dice trying to do the right thing, being legal, and not getting into trouble and still being able to protect yourself.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

I don't have time right now to answer all of your questions.

However, to see the category C felony part (carrying CCW without a permit), go back to NRS 202.350 and read (b) Paragraph (b) or subparagraph (1) or (3) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

Be Safe.

Joe

Thanks Joe, I see it now. I was reading the penalty for weapons violations other than concealed firearms and explosives. I agree it is a felony, first offense.

Check your IM's.

"common sense" would say that it's when you're actually carrying/wearing it, no matter what your gender is, or what type of bag, luggage, whatever it is.

anywhere else in a vehicle and it should be cargo.

if you're in a vehicle, there's not much difference between having a briefcase on the passengers seat with a gun in it, and having one in the center console, under the seat or in the pocket on the driver's door.

but then that's just *my* opinion and none of this is legal advice, yadda, yadda.

and i'm not aware of any cases where there's been a ruling one way or the other in a case like this, in a Nevada court.

as always, thanks to Joe for his posts on topics like this.

now...there's the question of if a LEO has probably cause for a search of your vehicle if he simply sees a briefcase, purse or anything else in the vehicle with you. if they can't claim PC, and if they don't have permission, they're not going to get to search. some will ask for consent to search, often saying "you wouldn't mind if i searched your vehicle" or some similar request that sounds hard to decline, but declining consent to search does not give them PC.

Those are my thoughts as well. I have been through classes before and felt like I had a good handle on this stuff  but after sitting through 8 hours listening to someone who's job it is to teach this stuff say otherwise had me second guessing what I thought was the law. There was so much incorrect info presented, I don't know what parts of what was taught I can believe.

Souns like they hired the instructors from The Gun Store with all the bad info .  There's three people I would recommend for the CCW Class.  They are Matt from New Frontier Armory, Joe from Line of Fire or Kurt Geptke (he's on NV Shooters Forum).

unfortunately, simply working with, selling or even teaching about a product or topic does NOT make the person doing it "an authority". i've seen more than a few "experts" spewing bad info over the years.

sometimes there's no knowing where they picked up that tidbit of info from, sometimes you hear it and know they misunderstood a recent article in some publication and sometimes all you can do is go "WTF?"

often the enthusiasts will know more about a topic than many in the industry.

had a similar issue with the instructor at my CCW recert last year. it wasn't who i wanted to go thru, but they were close and i was short on time and i'd been out of town for a while leading up to the permit expiring, so i was behind the curve on the renewal.

Funny you should say that because these guys were badmouthing the Gun Store guys during the class.

But to teach this course you should be an authority. I mean the state of Nevada requires you to sit and listen to them for 8 hours to learn the stuff. I understand that information on gun safety and tactics are subjective and will vary by instructor but the information on the law should be current and accurate. If not, it would be better for everyone involved, not to teach it. Just tell us where to find the statutes that apply to CCW and we can read them on our own time.

If this was my first time or I was unfamiliar with CCW I would have gone to Joe or someone like him, but I just wanted a convenient, quick class to get my paperwork back in. These guys are about 10 minutes from my house, reasonably priced, had a class on a day I was free and seem to be fairly well respected otherwise so they seemed like the right choice.

And to be fair, I got exactly what I needed. I'm just a little disappointed in the information presented. I didn't expect to come out knowing less about the law than when I went in.

A professional instructor should never slam other instructors. What they should do (and often don't do) is focus on what they do well, not direct their negativity towards other instructors for their shortcomings to make themselves look cool.

When instructors slam other instructors that is the first sign of weakness, and their instructional background and capabilities to instruct have no valid meaning when they travel that road.

Anyone who knows me knows that I always respect the competition (and often times I don't get the same respect). I do, however, get respect from some instructors (they know who I am, and I know who they are) and that makes all of my years of passion and dedication for what I do for a living worthwhile.

I will say this: I have been told by students that when my name (or the name of my business comes up) I get slammed by MORONS that have never met me…. and that is unsat.

I find it comical that people who pay less tuition and spend less time for training, post questions in gun boards wondering how to fix the mistakes they received in other courses (Fingers is a perfect example of that).

If you decide to take a course on the cheap, remember, you get what you pay for.

Be Safe.

Joe

Well said Joe......

Any idea on the laws pertaining to motorcycles? It was nice today, and I wanted to take the bike out to Sloan and blast a few. Then I started thinking about how to get my gun there. Tankbag, Backpack? I don't have a CCW yet.

well, since i have a few motorcycles and more than a few guns i'd say the "scommon sense" approach would be that a tankbag, or tail bag would not be considered "on your person" since in practice a tankbag is much like a glove box or center console in a vehicle. in a backpack that you're wearing would be "on your person", but put the same bag was under a bungie net on the back seat and it's cargo. if you've got a rear rack you might consider a Pelican case or similar bolted to it as a trunk. panniers or under seat storage would also be cargo. i have a Pelican 1500 i'm planning on bolting to the rear rack on my KLR, but also have a Wolfman Wolf Tail pack that bungies on securely.

however, i'd suggest NOT having the gun and the registration and proof of insurance in the same compartment. i usually have the paperwork in the map pocket of the tankbag. other people like to put it under the seat, if the seat is easy to remove or there are paperwork holders that bolt to the license plate frame.

i keep all my vehicle paperwork for both bikes and the truck in brightly colored zippered pencil pouches. easy to find at Wally world at "back to school" time and easy to find in the glovebox late at night.

i've seen a few guys with a holster mounted inside their hard panniers. remove the lid and it's right there and not floating around in the big box.

personally, i don't like a backpack larger than a Camelbak when on the bike. but also have courier bags if i need them for something.

for several years in Kali and when i first moved here the only motor vehicle i had was a bike.

i've read all the NRS covering motorcycles and there's no mention of firearms in them, so i'm expecting that a motorcycle or even a bicycle will be considered the same as "any other vehicle".

i've been stopped a few times in my youth on my previous motorcycle (it looked fast, even standing still, and someone once called the color "arrest me red". it WAS a cop magnet.. i've never had a LEO ask to search me or my tankbag. my current bikes "look slower" and they just ignore me now.

My cousin was stopped on his bicycle in Douglas County for OC. Riding his bike while wearing a Smith J Frame. 4 patrol cars and a long lecture about how dangerous guns are.

sounds like a scene from Reno 911!

LOL, fucking JBTs are not your friend.