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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:12:02 AM EST
So my company has been dealing with CC fraud lately. We have some great police detectives we have been working with. We collected enough data to basically hand the case over to them. They reported that they had picked up the individuals. They reported they even had recordings of them talking about the fraud. I replied "so you tapped their phones?" They said "oh no we just pulled the recordings from their phone records." I said "how does that work". They said "all they had to do was pull the phone records and then the recordings of the conversations because they were all recorded due to the anti-terrorism stuff under bush" "every phone call in the US is recorded" Now I just don't believe that. Maybe it is true and the conspiracy theory really became a reality but I think these guys are blowing smoke. If its true then I guess I am way behind the times and need to start saying nice things about Obama on the phone. I thought there were plenty of laws preventing this sort of thing? Can any LEOs weigh in to corroborate or to dispel what was being communicated to me. Thanks.


69camaro
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 8:20:59 AM EST
Discovery channel had this on a few months ago, it's true. They have the ability to look at everything you do electronically, i.e. cell phones, email, what websites you've been to.

no i don't wear a tinfoil hat, but yes i think some things are common sense. We live in a time where our lives can be opened up and looked at any moment someone chooses, privacy is just an illusion....

about the only privacy you have is when you take shit in your bathroom, they can't record that
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 8:59:28 AM EST
I think that question is in the 2010 census
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 9:29:16 AM EST
While I would not be surprised that this is happening, you would need a court order in order to conduct that type of surveillance on any one.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 9:33:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kujoe:
While I would not be surprised that this is happening, you would need a court order in order to conduct that type of surveillance on any one.


Cops do, Homeland security, NSA, etc doesn't

kinda messed up isn't it
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 10:12:16 AM EST
You are correct, there is absolutely NO way to record those conversations constantly there is not enough network bandwidth to do it.
There IS a means for the FBI to do call trace without contacting the phone company BUT there is not a vehicle in place to record the traffic...
Even then they are required by the FCC to have a court order to do a TAP.

That said I can take a T-BERD out to any digital circuit, plug in to monitor, break it out to the channel leverl and listen to your conversation without you being the wiser. I can take that audio and break it out to a recorder or a retransmitter and do with it as I please...

The service running into 99.9% of all homes is analog so that is even easier on the last mile.

Cellular traffic is even easier no matter what you may believe, digital or not I can snag it out of the air and listen in... But I would need to be within a few miles and scanning the band for your particular signal. Then I can Listen, Record Etc... By Triangulating your position from which Cell Towers you may be hitting similar to Loran C I can determine within feet the location of the Handset you are transmitting from. No matter what you may think also your Cellular Signal is on wire once it is intercepted by the Cellular Repeater, From there it is handled by a class 5 telephone switch just like any land line.

The only thing I can't "Readily" listen in on is a call made from an actual secure telephone unit or STU. These use Multiple Digital Encryption Systems and are difficult to crack the codes but Uncle Sam has the CRAY machines and also all the known codes for that type equipment so he can listen to you that way too. There are a few IP based programs that communicate IP to IP that if you know the IP you can redirect it and spoof the system.
There Are Encrypted variants of that too. Definitely high tech but not insurmountable security.
But to think that ALL telephone traffic is being recorded is Ludicrous.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 11:40:52 AM EST
I hope they watch AR-15.com because i would like to say that O'bama is a complete O'asshole...that is all
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 11:46:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
You are correct, there is absolutely NO way to record those conversations constantly there is not enough network bandwidth to do it.
There IS a means for the FBI to do call trace without contacting the phone company BUT there is not a vehicle in place to record the traffic...
Even then they are required by the FCC to have a court order to do a TAP.

That said I can take a T-BERD out to any digital circuit, plug in to monitor, break it out to the channel leverl and listen to your conversation without you being the wiser. I can take that audio and break it out to a recorder or a retransmitter and do with it as I please...

The service running into 99.9% of all homes is analog so that is even easier on the last mile.

Cellular traffic is even easier no matter what you may believe, digital or not I can snag it out of the air and listen in... But I would need to be within a few miles and scanning the band for your particular signal. Then I can Listen, Record Etc... By Triangulating your position from which Cell Towers you may be hitting similar to Loran C I can determine within feet the location of the Handset you are transmitting from. No matter what you may think also your Cellular Signal is on wire once it is intercepted by the Cellular Repeater, From there it is handled by a class 5 telephone switch just like any land line.

The only thing I can't "Readily" listen in on is a call made from an actual secure telephone unit or STU. These use Multiple Digital Encryption Systems and are difficult to crack the codes but Uncle Sam has the CRAY machines and also all the known codes for that type equipment so he can listen to you that way too. There are a few IP based programs that communicate IP to IP that if you know the IP you can redirect it and spoof the system.
There Are Encrypted variants of that too. Definitely high tech but not insurmountable security.
But to think that ALL telephone traffic is being recorded is Ludicrous.



This is all good, but all I need to do is apply for and be granted by a magistrate, a pen register on any cellular phone number and I can get a TAP going within 6 hours. The key here is having the equipment, and the phone company on your side. If you have a judge and a prosecuting attourney on your side and willing to go along with your investigation, anything is possible.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 11:58:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
You are correct, there is absolutely NO way to record those conversations constantly there is not enough network bandwidth to do it.
There IS a means for the FBI to do call trace without contacting the phone company BUT there is not a vehicle in place to record the traffic...
Even then they are required by the FCC to have a court order to do a TAP.

That said I can take a T-BERD out to any digital circuit, plug in to monitor, break it out to the channel leverl and listen to your conversation without you being the wiser. I can take that audio and break it out to a recorder or a retransmitter and do with it as I please...

The service running into 99.9% of all homes is analog so that is even easier on the last mile.

Cellular traffic is even easier no matter what you may believe, digital or not I can snag it out of the air and listen in... But I would need to be within a few miles and scanning the band for your particular signal. Then I can Listen, Record Etc... By Triangulating your position from which Cell Towers you may be hitting similar to Loran C I can determine within feet the location of the Handset you are transmitting from. No matter what you may think also your Cellular Signal is on wire once it is intercepted by the Cellular Repeater, From there it is handled by a class 5 telephone switch just like any land line.

The only thing I can't "Readily" listen in on is a call made from an actual secure telephone unit or STU. These use Multiple Digital Encryption Systems and are difficult to crack the codes but Uncle Sam has the CRAY machines and also all the known codes for that type equipment so he can listen to you that way too. There are a few IP based programs that communicate IP to IP that if you know the IP you can redirect it and spoof the system.
There Are Encrypted variants of that too. Definitely high tech but not insurmountable security.
But to think that ALL telephone traffic is being recorded is Ludicrous.


My first thought hearing this was damn that would have to be some super system to be able to house all of that information. Thanks for the insight I knew my BS detector was going off.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:14:10 PM EST
Of course they don't record all the phone calls. They only record certain ones. But they do screen all the calls to see if it should be recorded.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:33:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2009 12:34:08 PM EST by ponq]
Originally Posted By Reaperatm:
when you take shit in your bathroom, they can't record that


I call BS
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:46:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Of course they don't record all the phone calls. They only record certain ones. But they do screen all the calls to see if it should be recorded.


This is something I could believe.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:50:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Of course they don't record all the phone calls. They only record certain ones. But they do screen all the calls to see if it should be recorded.


Um.... No they do not. They CANNOT it is UNPOSSIBLE. Technically speaking it can't be done, not technically feasible.

Loosen the tinfoil!
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:56:05 PM EST
Carnivore...
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:58:00 PM EST
Fort Meade has 18 acres of mainframe computers underground. You're talking to your wife on the phone and you use the word "bomb", "president", "Allah", any of a hundred keywords, the computer recognizes it, automatically records it, red-flags it for analysis. That was 20 years ago.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:48:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Fort Meade has 18 acres of mainframe computers underground. You're talking to your wife on the phone and you use the word "bomb", "president", "Allah", any of a hundred keywords, the computer recognizes it, automatically records it, red-flags it for analysis. That was 20 years ago.


You watch too many movies.....
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:49:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
You are correct, there is absolutely NO way to record those conversations constantly there is not enough network bandwidth to do it.
There IS a means for the FBI to do call trace without contacting the phone company BUT there is not a vehicle in place to record the traffic...
Even then they are required by the FCC to have a court order to do a TAP.

That said I can take a T-BERD out to any digital circuit, plug in to monitor, break it out to the channel leverl and listen to your conversation without you being the wiser. I can take that audio and break it out to a recorder or a retransmitter and do with it as I please...

The service running into 99.9% of all homes is analog so that is even easier on the last mile.

Cellular traffic is even easier no matter what you may believe, digital or not I can snag it out of the air and listen in... But I would need to be within a few miles and scanning the band for your particular signal. Then I can Listen, Record Etc... By Triangulating your position from which Cell Towers you may be hitting similar to Loran C I can determine within feet the location of the Handset you are transmitting from. No matter what you may think also your Cellular Signal is on wire once it is intercepted by the Cellular Repeater, From there it is handled by a class 5 telephone switch just like any land line.

The only thing I can't "Readily" listen in on is a call made from an actual secure telephone unit or STU. These use Multiple Digital Encryption Systems and are difficult to crack the codes but Uncle Sam has the CRAY machines and also all the known codes for that type equipment so he can listen to you that way too. There are a few IP based programs that communicate IP to IP that if you know the IP you can redirect it and spoof the system.
There Are Encrypted variants of that too. Definitely high tech but not insurmountable security.
But to think that ALL telephone traffic is being recorded is Ludicrous.


This information is partially correct however the government can also
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 2:09:45 PM EST
I DO NOT HAVE MY TINFOIL HAT ON TOO TIGHT!!..... hey whats that shiny circle thing the sky?!

In all seriousness i know for a fact they do it with email, who is to say they don't have the equipment to do that to phone calls? I believe it could/probably is possible to scan for key words through the telelphone. Why wouldn't it be? Look at the technology we have, and it's still changing and growing everyday.

maybe i do have my tinfoil hat on too tight......
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 2:37:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:

<snip>



I read all that and thought "Wow, I'm still learning to use the touch screen on my cell phone."
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:05:38 PM EST
If you want a secure connection use a modern encryption on e-mail. With a key on each end it is impossible to decrypt.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:26:54 PM EST
The OP stated that the subjects had been "picked up". If this involved them being incarcerated in the local county jail, any phone call originating from the jail were in all likelihood recorded. At the beginning of any phone call from most jails, there is a recording stating the call is subject to recording, but most of the inmates don't believe the calls are recorded and or listened to. You would be amazed at what people will still say even if they are warned. I don't know of this exact incident, but this may be what the detective were referring to.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:08:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:40:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By GoGop:

I read all that and thought "Wow, I'm still learning to use the touch screen on my cell phone."



If you have touch screen on your cell, your further along than me...
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:49:53 AM EST
Thats why you should always use code words. The black beagle barks at midnight for instance means buy another pound of bacon on your way home honey. Then again so does the eagle soars on cloudy mornings.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:14:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Reaperatm:
I DO NOT HAVE MY TINFOIL HAT ON TOO TIGHT!!..... hey whats that shiny circle thing the sky?!

In all seriousness i know for a fact they do it with email, who is to say they don't have the equipment to do that to phone calls? I believe it could/probably is possible to scan for key words through the telelphone. Why wouldn't it be? Look at the technology we have, and it's still changing and growing everyday.

maybe i do have my tinfoil hat on too tight......


Audio data is MUCH larger than text. The amount of hardware required to keep the amount of data that would be farmed would be in the relm of fiction.

That being said, I'm sure that some organaztions do screen their emails, but not Joe public. I could be wrong, but has anyone stopped to think about the logistics of this? How many billions of emails are sent every day across our networks? I mean, how many junk mails a day do you get? Or better yet, how many junk mails does your second email account do you get? You know, the one you give when you give your email address out to something you're not 100% sure about? I mean, seriously. The amount of data flying back and forth across this nation, let alone the world is mind boggling.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:22:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By toothlesrooster:
Originally Posted By Reaperatm:
I DO NOT HAVE MY TINFOIL HAT ON TOO TIGHT!!..... hey whats that shiny circle thing the sky?!

In all seriousness i know for a fact they do it with email, who is to say they don't have the equipment to do that to phone calls? I believe it could/probably is possible to scan for key words through the telelphone. Why wouldn't it be? Look at the technology we have, and it's still changing and growing everyday.

maybe i do have my tinfoil hat on too tight......


Audio data is MUCH larger than text. The amount of hardware required to keep the amount of data that would be farmed would be in the relm of fiction.

That being said, I'm sure that some organaztions do screen their emails, but not Joe public. I could be wrong, but has anyone stopped to think about the logistics of this? How many billions of emails are sent every day across our networks? I mean, how many junk mails a day do you get? Or better yet, how many junk mails does your second email account do you get? You know, the one you give when you give your email address out to something you're not 100% sure about? I mean, seriously. The amount of data flying back and forth across this nation, let alone the world is mind boggling.


Dude! The Signals can't penetrate the tinfoil!!!!

Teh Gubmint is watchin ma evry moove!!!

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:32:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By toothlesrooster:
Originally Posted By Reaperatm:
I DO NOT HAVE MY TINFOIL HAT ON TOO TIGHT!!..... hey whats that shiny circle thing the sky?!

In all seriousness i know for a fact they do it with email, who is to say they don't have the equipment to do that to phone calls? I believe it could/probably is possible to scan for key words through the telelphone. Why wouldn't it be? Look at the technology we have, and it's still changing and growing everyday.

maybe i do have my tinfoil hat on too tight......


Audio data is MUCH larger than text. The amount of hardware required to keep the amount of data that would be farmed would be in the relm of fiction.

That being said, I'm sure that some organaztions do screen their emails, but not Joe public. I could be wrong, but has anyone stopped to think about the logistics of this? How many billions of emails are sent every day across our networks? I mean, how many junk mails a day do you get? Or better yet, how many junk mails does your second email account do you get? You know, the one you give when you give your email address out to something you're not 100% sure about? I mean, seriously. The amount of data flying back and forth across this nation, let alone the world is mind boggling.


Dude! The Signals can't penetrate the tinfoil!!!!

Teh Gubmint is watchin ma evry moove!!!



I prefer something along the lines of a tinfoil umbrella. You know, keyhole and all. I can't let them watch me deciphering my top secret newspaper codes, can I?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:43:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Fort Meade has 18 acres of mainframe computers underground. You're talking to your wife on the phone and you use the word "bomb", "president", "Allah", any of a hundred keywords, the computer recognizes it, automatically records it, red-flags it for analysis. That was 20 years ago.


Did you grab the cat, peel out in your El Camino and blow up your super secret warehouse lair after you typed that?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:47:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By toothlesrooster:
Originally Posted By Reaperatm:
I DO NOT HAVE MY TINFOIL HAT ON TOO TIGHT!!..... hey whats that shiny circle thing the sky?!

In all seriousness i know for a fact they do it with email, who is to say they don't have the equipment to do that to phone calls? I believe it could/probably is possible to scan for key words through the telelphone. Why wouldn't it be? Look at the technology we have, and it's still changing and growing everyday.

maybe i do have my tinfoil hat on too tight......


Audio data is MUCH larger than text. The amount of hardware required to keep the amount of data that would be farmed would be in the relm of fiction.

That being said, I'm sure that some organaztions do screen their emails, but not Joe public. I could be wrong, but has anyone stopped to think about the logistics of this? How many billions of emails are sent every day across our networks? I mean, how many junk mails a day do you get? Or better yet, how many junk mails does your second email account do you get? You know, the one you give when you give your email address out to something you're not 100% sure about? I mean, seriously. The amount of data flying back and forth across this nation, let alone the world is mind boggling.



Phone audio is pretty lo-fi. At 48-92kbs you could store about 2000 hours of good quality audio, or your kids iPod. Now ramp that up to a few terra-bytes and I bet you could fit every phone conversation you have had in your entire life in a single server. I don't know if the government is recording anything at all. I do know it's possible to record thousands of conversations in a small amount of space, and I know they have proposed legislation to make telco's immune from prosecution for invasion of privacy over eve's dropping and recording.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 1:58:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 2:00:02 PM EST by AFSOC]


Tinfoil Too Tight!!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 3:34:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:


Tinfoil Too Tight!!!


Tinfoil hat fits perfect...I don't have a clear view of the southern sky...
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 7:05:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 7:09:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 7:30:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By Bostekrisco:
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Fort Meade has 18 acres of mainframe computers underground. You're talking to your wife on the phone and you use the word "bomb", "president", "Allah", any of a hundred keywords, the computer recognizes it, automatically records it, red-flags it for analysis. That was 20 years ago.


Did you grab the cat, peel out in your El Camino and blow up your super secret warehouse lair after you typed that?


Yeah, because you made a phone call!


Son of a bitch....you stole my line...

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 3:45:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By bwideman:
The OP stated that the subjects had been "picked up". If this involved them being incarcerated in the local county jail, any phone call originating from the jail were in all likelihood recorded. At the beginning of any phone call from most jails, there is a recording stating the call is subject to recording, but most of the inmates don't believe the calls are recorded and or listened to. You would be amazed at what people will still say even if they are warned. I don't know of this exact incident, but this may be what the detective were referring to.


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:07:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Unit91:
Originally Posted By bwideman:
The OP stated that the subjects had been "picked up". If this involved them being incarcerated in the local county jail, any phone call originating from the jail were in all likelihood recorded. At the beginning of any phone call from most jails, there is a recording stating the call is subject to recording, but most of the inmates don't believe the calls are recorded and or listened to. You would be amazed at what people will still say even if they are warned. I don't know of this exact incident, but this may be what the detective were referring to.


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Guess you guys missed this part?
"every phone call in the US is recorded" That is a quote of a quote from the OP...
Yes the Jailhouse and Prison phones are listened to and recorded...
But this has nothing to do with that.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:34:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By Bostekrisco:
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Fort Meade has 18 acres of mainframe computers underground. You're talking to your wife on the phone and you use the word "bomb", "president", "Allah", any of a hundred keywords, the computer recognizes it, automatically records it, red-flags it for analysis. That was 20 years ago.


Did you grab the cat, peel out in your El Camino and blow up your super secret warehouse lair after you typed that?


Yeah, because you made a phone call!



Oops

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 6:23:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By shooter64738:
Originally Posted By toothlesrooster:
Originally Posted By Reaperatm:
I DO NOT HAVE MY TINFOIL HAT ON TOO TIGHT!!..... hey whats that shiny circle thing the sky?!

In all seriousness i know for a fact they do it with email, who is to say they don't have the equipment to do that to phone calls? I believe it could/probably is possible to scan for key words through the telelphone. Why wouldn't it be? Look at the technology we have, and it's still changing and growing everyday.

maybe i do have my tinfoil hat on too tight......


Audio data is MUCH larger than text. The amount of hardware required to keep the amount of data that would be farmed would be in the relm of fiction.

That being said, I'm sure that some organaztions do screen their emails, but not Joe public. I could be wrong, but has anyone stopped to think about the logistics of this? How many billions of emails are sent every day across our networks? I mean, how many junk mails a day do you get? Or better yet, how many junk mails does your second email account do you get? You know, the one you give when you give your email address out to something you're not 100% sure about? I mean, seriously. The amount of data flying back and forth across this nation, let alone the world is mind boggling.



Phone audio is pretty lo-fi. At 48-92kbs you could store about 2000 hours of good quality audio, or your kids iPod. Now ramp that up to a few terra-bytes and I bet you could fit every phone conversation you have had in your entire life in a single server. I don't know if the government is recording anything at all. I do know it's possible to record thousands of conversations in a small amount of space, and I know they have proposed legislation to make telco's immune from prosecution for invasion of privacy over eve's dropping and recording.


Yes, but the average size of an email (text, without attachments) is between 7-11kb that makes phone data 5-10 times the size and we're always struggling with drive space and power on our Exchange servers. You're talking about a nation with more than 300 million people. It may be possible, maybe, but not feasible. The computing power and man power you'd need to sift through all of those calls is mind boggling. We all know Uncle Sam has done some shady things with our communications, I have no doubt that they listen in on things they're not supposed to, but I think it's utter bologna to think they record all voice traffic in this country.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:07:40 AM EST
Come on guys. It's not just ones and zeros anymore. It is also almost ones and almost zero. Sure they have the storage cause THEY use quantum storage. And again, they obviously don't store it all, but rather just the stuff that gets flagged.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:30:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Come on guys. It's not just ones and zeros anymore. It is also almost ones and almost zero. Sure they have the storage cause THEY use quantum storage. And again, they obviously don't store it all, but rather just the stuff that gets flagged.



BUT to FLAG it would mean that someone somewhere would have to be actively monitoring ALL traffic... it just ain't techologically feasible...
ALL traffic does not get routed through Ft MEADE for analysis... Not enough time in all of the minutes and hours of all of the days in time to do it...
Loosen the TINFOIL people!!!

Wait! is that a black helicopter circling the building? Why are they looking and me? What is this little red dot? OMG! wkjmv;...
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:53:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Come on guys. It's not just ones and zeros anymore. It is also almost ones and almost zero. Sure they have the storage cause THEY use quantum storage. And again, they obviously don't store it all, but rather just the stuff that gets flagged.



BUT to FLAG it would mean that someone somewhere would have to be actively monitoring ALL traffic... it just ain't techologically feasible...
ALL traffic does not get routed through Ft MEADE for analysis... Not enough time in all of the minutes and hours of all of the days in time to do it...
Loosen the TINFOIL people!!!

Wait! is that a black helicopter circling the building? Why are they looking and me? What is this little red dot? OMG! wkjmv;...


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:32:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Come on guys. It's not just ones and zeros anymore. It is also almost ones and almost zero. Sure they have the storage cause THEY use quantum storage. And again, they obviously don't store it all, but rather just the stuff that gets flagged.



BUT to FLAG it would mean that someone somewhere would have to be actively monitoring ALL traffic... it just ain't techologically feasible...
ALL traffic does not get routed through Ft MEADE for analysis... Not enough time in all of the minutes and hours of all of the days in time to do it...
Loosen the TINFOIL people!!!

Wait! is that a black helicopter circling the building? Why are they looking and me? What is this little red dot? OMG! wkjmv;...


Let me start by saying, I don't personally beleive this is happening, however... There is no need to have any PERSON listenting to the phone call. If the voice information is passed through a computer the computer will listen to the call. I can write software in less than a day that will do it for you. If you connect your pc modem to your voice line and use the pc as your phone, I can write software that will start writing the audio stream to disk everytime someone says Ford Fiesta.. Thats pretty lo-tech. All you need to do is get the audio to a computer to 'listen' to it and then store it if the proper conditions are met.

Again I don't think uncle sam is doing it, but it can be done easily, and with a budget like the homeland security guys, buying storage space wouldn't be an issue. The call doesn't have to be routed to Forst Meade to do it... Thats why the phone companies demanded they get immunity before they would consider such a thing.. Because it would be their equipment, and their facility that housed the calls, not the governments. The legislation still hasn't passed, and they still don't have immunity as far as I know.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:32:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 9:34:56 PM EST by Intel686]
Let's do some math:
Human voice is compressed at about 10 kbit/s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_coding - follow links to specific compression algorithms)
compression used by the military can go even lower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FNBDT)

10 kbit/s ~ 1.3 kb/sec

if an average person spends 2 hours on a phone per day :
1.3kb x 60 sec x 120 min = 9360 kb = 9.14Mb per day
it's going to be 3336 Mb per year per person = 3.26 Gb

for 300 million people it's going to be 978000000 Gb = 955078.125 Tb

cost of 1Tb hard drive retail ~ $100
so the total cost for storage only would be 95.5 million dollars per year.
considering that such system would require enterprise grade storage the cost of that would be around $300 per 1Tb. So that would be ~ $150 million per year.
The cost can be lowered by archiving the data on tape.

Amazon offers unlimited storage at $0.120 per GB per month (http://aws.amazon.com/s3/#pricing)
and that would translate into $117.36 million per month.

Cell phone voice is already digitized and can be captured on the Base station, local phones can be eavesdropped on ILEC level (most likely they are digitizing voice automatically there as well)
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 4:29:46 AM EST
Go to your local bookstore and purchase The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America
by James Bamford. You will NEVER look at your phone or electronic transmissions in the same manner as you have before reading this book.

Every person I have loaned this book to has come back and said the same thing. OMG!

As far as the storage issue, this is covered in great detail in the front of the book for all us techies.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:58:08 AM EST
If they are keeping all the emails, they probably have the largest pron collection on earth.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 2:45:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 4:40:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By shooter64738:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Woodman_in_MO:
Come on guys. It's not just ones and zeros anymore. It is also almost ones and almost zero. Sure they have the storage cause THEY use quantum storage. And again, they obviously don't store it all, but rather just the stuff that gets flagged.



BUT to FLAG it would mean that someone somewhere would have to be actively monitoring ALL traffic... it just ain't techologically feasible...
ALL traffic does not get routed through Ft MEADE for analysis... Not enough time in all of the minutes and hours of all of the days in time to do it...
Loosen the TINFOIL people!!!

Wait! is that a black helicopter circling the building? Why are they looking and me? What is this little red dot? OMG! wkjmv;...


Let me start by saying, I don't personally beleive this is happening, however... There is no need to have any PERSON listenting to the phone call. If the voice information is passed through a computer the computer will listen to the call. I can write software in less than a day that will do it for you. If you connect your pc modem to your voice line and use the pc as your phone, I can write software that will start writing the audio stream to disk everytime someone says Ford Fiesta.. Thats pretty lo-tech. All you need to do is get the audio to a computer to 'listen' to it and then store it if the proper conditions are met.

Again I don't think uncle sam is doing it, but it can be done easily, and with a budget like the homeland security guys, buying storage space wouldn't be an issue. The call doesn't have to be routed to Forst Meade to do it... Thats why the phone companies demanded they get immunity before they would consider such a thing.. Because it would be their equipment, and their facility that housed the calls, not the governments. The legislation still hasn't passed, and they still don't have immunity as far as I know.


My wife just graduated from college this spring and has been trying to get a teaching job. In Wentzville there were 4 primary teacher jobs open. They recieved over 900 applications through mo reap the online thing they now use. They ran all of the applications through software that looked for specific words and phrases and if your application didnt meet criteria then your application was never looked at by a person. IF a school district has that kind of software what do you think is in use by the .gov? All they need to do is record everything coming in and then have the computer delete anything that it deems not relavant.
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