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Posted: 12/30/2006 12:45:53 PM EDT
I just purchased an XD-45 yesterday (Friday) afternoon. Figured with the 72 hours, that would put me at the same time Monday, but of course the gun store would be closed. So I should be good to go at the opening of business Tuesday.
I was informed after my purchase that I couldn't get it until Wednesday beacause national holidays don't count. WTF  After researching the statutes, I can find no mention of this. It's 72 hours for handguns, period. Has anyone ever heard of this crap? I'll probably just wait till Tuesday morning when the main people are there to call and bitch. I hope they won't fuck with me on this. I'm off Tuesday so I want to play! |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 12:57:37 PM EDT
[#1]
They're wrong. 72 hours is 72 hours, period. And even if they DID take their made up Holiday rule into account, you'd still be good to go on Tuesday. Go into the store Tuesday morning, and if they refuse to hand your gun over, pick up your cell phone and call the local PD to file a theft report right there. When you hang up with your PD, call the nearest ATF field office and tell them the story. Odds are you'll get your gun before you finish the first call. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 1:02:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Exactly. I bought it at 4:30 pm Friday. So even with the BS holiday thing, I would still be OK Tuesday after 4:30.
I just hope they don't act like jackasses and break my balls on this. ETA: Thanks NPD. Good Idea. I still owe a balance on the gun. I'll pay it up and after I get my receipt I'll demand my merchandise. 
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Posted: 12/30/2006 1:04:15 PM EDT
[#3]
You can legally take possession of the gun as of 1630 hrs Monday. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 1:25:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Of course this all depends on whether the original call to ISP yielded an "Approved" "Denied" or "Delayed" response. If it was "delayed" the transfer is automatically approved after 72 hours UNLESS during that time the state contacts the seller and informs them to DENY the transfer. The state will not call them and tell them it's approved, they will only call if there's a reason to deny.
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Posted: 12/30/2006 1:36:28 PM EDT
[#5]
How does this ISP approval work?
Just wondering how this works with a late afternoon purchase on a Friday. Is this a 24/7 approval thing? BTW, I would expect no issues with an approval. 
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Posted: 12/30/2006 2:35:40 PM EDT
[#6]
FFL calls phone number. Check is run. You clear right then and there. Atleast thats my understanding |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 3:02:34 PM EDT
[#7]
thats preety much right. its automated, except every time i call when they are closed, i will end up getting a delayed response. an actual person will call me the next business day and give me the approved transaction number. im not sure what their business hours are, but if they didnt make the call until later friday night they may have also gotten the delay and with the holidays, who knows when the ISP would get back to them. dont get upset, they dont know you and you dont know them. they have lots to risk by selling one gun before they are 100% certain its going to a law abiding citizen. i wouldnt hesitate calling you up and telling you that i havnt received a response and that id like to wait until i hear from them to complete the transaction. although i dont see any reason why they wouldnt have the response from the ISP on the 26th. they where probably open and it was more then the 72hour waiting period. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 3:33:56 PM EDT
[#8]
The law dosen't state that approval must be obtained before the transfer is completed. Only that it is unlawful to...
(g) Delivers any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such firearm for at least 72 hours after application for its purchase has been made, or delivers any rifle, shotgun or other long gun, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such rifle, shotgun or other long gun for at least 24 hours after application for its purchase has been made. As I see it, while it's their responsibility as an FFL to obtain the required authorization from the ISP, they still have no legal right to withhold the pistol after the 72 hours has passed. The law is silent on obtaining authorization. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 4:11:13 PM EDT
[#9]
i believe that is true as well. if this happened to a regular customer of mine, i would not hesitate to complete the transfer. however i would explain the situation to them and im sure they would be ok with waiting another day or two.
if i had an actual gunstore where just anyone can walk in and purchase a gun with a FOID, i would prefer to hold off until i get the go ahead. if the customer puts up a big stink, i would probably be even more suspicious of them. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 4:27:30 PM EDT
[#10]
I understand your position. I did purchase this at a large gun store (GAT in Dundee).
What if they didn't bother to call in cause they were busy or something, then wanted the comfort of knowing I was OK. I just don't think I should be penalized. The real spirit of the law is to provide a "cooling off" period, not to allow the authorities enough time to check you out. The FOID system is in place to verify eligibility. Given that a handgun is easier to conceal, it's somewhat amusing to think that if a person is in a homicidal rage he would cool off faster if he planned on using a rifle instead of a handgun. Just because I make a stink (politely but firmly) should not make me "suspicious". |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 6:02:33 PM EDT
[#11]
You should refuse the sale to anyone that you will not transfer the firearm to within the 72 hours with or without a response. After they have paid you your money and waited the 72 hours, you should be required by law to deliver the firearm. Business transactions are not subject to your personal feelings after they are completed. If the man has paid his money, he should receive the product as soon as legally possible, not at your leisure. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 6:02:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Never heard of a "holidays don't count" rule.
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Posted: 12/30/2006 7:38:33 PM EDT
[#13]
i hear you on that and you make a decent point. but you are viewing it from your angle and not all angles. you and most all members on here are law-abiding citizens.but what if a criminal comes in friday night. the gun shop gets a delayed response due to the holiday. criminal comes in on monday after 72hours. you still think the gun shop should give him the gun becuase the 72hours had elapsed? businesses have refused business to some people just because they choose not to, escpecially in the gun business. i have every right to refuse a transfer just if i feel something is wrong. the only way i would know for sure legally is if i get a response from the ISP. edit - and typically this is why most places only take a deposit, the rest on delivery. |
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Posted: 12/30/2006 7:47:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Personally, I think all of this is a violation of the 2nd amendment. Yes, after 72 hours without a response, gun is his. Before you ever made the phone call, you should refuse service to him if you do not want to do business, not AFTER you take his money. You have every right to refuse to do business with anyone. You do NOT have the right to deny him his property contingent on some kind of unnecessary government approval. Your job is to follow the law, not make it. 72 hours, no response, give him his gun, no questions asked. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 4:52:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Which sales person did you talk to? Was it Greg Sr or some one who looks like they are old enough to have their own kids? I know they are sticklers on the literal 72hrs/24hrs but have never had the holiday problem. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 5:04:29 AM EDT
[#16]
then if thats how you feel, why is the 72hour waiting period not a violation of the 2nd. most places only take a small deposit, this is probably one of the reason why. i order peoples guns out of my own pocket. most of the time im not available right at the 72hour mark anyways. my customers dont mind. some of them wait until the following weekend. if someone pays 10% deposit and the gunshop covers the rest, whose gun is it? and like smitty said, he still owes a balance on the gun he ordered. sure the law is the law, but honestly dont you think waiting one more day is worth it to a company that could save them months of atf involvement and possibly loosing the license their entire business relies on. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 6:03:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Does anyone know if in a normal state where there are no waiting periods does the NICS check get delayed? and if so can the buyer still walk out with his firearm?
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Posted: 12/31/2006 6:27:32 AM EDT
[#18]
He was a younger guy, maybe 30ish. I don't mind them being sticklers. The law is the law and I understand how they have to be rigid to keep from getting screwed. Also the gun was a stock item. They had a lower price for cash so I gave them a $165 gift card as a cash deposit. Also in looking at the receipt (dated 12/29/06 at 4:35pm), he put down a pickup date of 1/3/07 at 10:00 pm. They close at 8:00p on weekdays. I think this guy was a little off that day. 
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Posted: 12/31/2006 7:35:19 AM EDT
[#19]
The 72 hour (or any) waiting period IS a violation of the 2nd. Unfortunately, we do not live in a society of ideology, however, and the law is the law. The law says that I have to wait 72 hours, and after that, response or not, I can pick up my firearm. If I so desire, the firearm should be delivered to me. I have complied with the law, as the FFL has. You will not lose any license nor have ATF involvement for following the law. That is the same excuse that is given for why many FFLs legislate from behind the counter. In fact, it is precisely why people are not patronizing their local FFLs. Personally, I avoid them as much as possible, and as soon as I get permanent living arrangements, I'm simply going to get my own. Once a receipt is issued, it is your gun as long as you pay the remaining balance. I have never dealt with an FFL that would order a gun or start the transaction without payment in full. Refusing to deliver the firearm after the transaction is complete is theft. The waiting period is 72 hours and it should be delivered without delay after that, if the customer so desires.
It could. I believe the same 72 hours applies. After 72 hours, the firearm can be delivered with or without a response, I think. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 7:51:44 AM EDT
[#20]
I thought this state and a couple others only have wait time (cooling off period) as they say.
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Posted: 12/31/2006 7:56:32 AM EDT
[#21]
They do, if you are approved. If you are not approved, there is a period of time where the NICS has to respond if they want to deny the transaction. After that time has passed, the gun can be legally transferred and that is the end of it. I believe that time is 72 hours. If it is approved and there is nothing to stop it from being delivered immediately, it can be completed right then and there. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 8:27:39 AM EDT
[#22]
If the FFL doesn't get the proceed response from NICS, they have to wait 3 business days to do the transfer. I'm pretty sure that it is from the time of the call, not the time of sale.
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Posted: 12/31/2006 9:07:48 AM EDT
[#23]
I'd watch out. The owner trolls this site from time to time, and he may decide to cancel your sale due to you "badmouthing" him and his store.  Either way, they're plain wrong. Sad to say, but I wasn't suprised when I found out who you bought this from. I pretty much guessed it from the minute I heard about the problem. They like to make up their own rules sometimes. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 9:26:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Just to be clear, I'm not badmouthing them. I just think the counter guy is misinformed.
I bought my 1st gun from them when they were a little shop in Hanover Park and have patronized their store for many years, although I'm not a "regular". If the owner does see this post, I'd love to hear from him. If for some reason they haven't called the ISP, I'm sure they can get an approval Tuesday morning. With that and more than 72 hours passing, I can't see how they could do otherwise but to hand over the gun. Anyway we'll see come Tuesday. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 9:49:16 AM EDT
[#25]
ATF's "business day" definition and Illinois' "72 hour wait" definition are of two completely different things. According to ATF, an FFL's "business day" is any day which the licensee is actually OPEN for business. If it's guy who works out of his house and only has public hours every Saturday, than his "3 business days" will equate to about 3 weeks. In IL, the 72 hours starts ticking when the sale is made, and ends when 72 hours is up. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 12:08:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Are you sure about that? I was reading the faq page on the atf website and it says business days are days that state offices are open. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 1:13:45 PM EDT
[#27]
There are separate definitions depending on the matter at hand. A "business day" for the ATF with regard to the NICS check, is a day in which Fed/State offices are open for business. A business day for the FFL is a day in which the FFL is open for business whether or not state offices are open or not. For example an FFL must report multiple purchases of handguns to the ATF when a person buys 2 or more handguns within any 5 consecutive business days (that the licensee is open) So if Bob the FFL is only open on Sundays and you buy 1 handgun this Sunday and 1 the following Sunday, Bob must report the "multiple handgun transfer" to ATF because 5 handguns were transferred within 5 consecutive business days. If you'd bought the same guns on the same days at a business open 7 days a week, the sales would have occurred too far apart because that business's business days are every day. The seller he bought his guns from would not phone in for a NICS check, since we're in IL, he has to use the Illinois State Police FTIP line. The ATF/NICS rules are different. GAT needs to transfer the firearm after 72 hours, period. |
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Posted: 12/31/2006 1:44:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Wow, we agree on something. I'm going to have to mark the calander. 
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Posted: 1/1/2007 12:07:53 PM EDT
[#29]
I know you're not badmouthing them. Telling the truth about something is just that...but there are a few people over there who get there panties in a bunch anytime their business is shed it a negative light...even when they know they made a mistake, no matter how small or big it is, they still get riled up. |
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Posted: 1/1/2007 5:45:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Well tomorrow will tell. I'll post an update on the outcome. I hope I'm not being Pollyannish about this but I think everything will work out OK. |
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Posted: 1/2/2007 3:46:09 AM EDT
[#31]
What time ya going up there today? Maybe I might be up for a trip up there to see how things go.
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Posted: 1/2/2007 5:52:39 AM EDT
[#32]
They open at 10:00. I'll probably go around 11:00. Still working on my 1st cup of coffee.
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Posted: 1/2/2007 7:22:47 AM EDT
[#33]
I believe the 3 days starts from when the call is made. Having had worked at Maxon and ran FTips, the ISP FTIP system goes down all the time. It's possible the system was down when they tried to call it or they forgot to call it in the day you bought the gun. Shit happens, I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over it.
As far as refusing a sale after money has changed hands and an Ftip has been called in. Any gunshop owner / employee has the right to do this as long as a refund is provided. If something smells funny in this industry it's best to CYA and refuse the sale & provide a refund. I had to do that a few times while working at Maxon. |
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Posted: 1/2/2007 7:57:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Actually it starts after the application for purchase has been made. (g) Delivers any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon the person, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such firearm for at least 72 hours after application for its purchase has been made, or delivers any rifle, shotgun or other long gun, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such rifle, shotgun or other long gun for at least 24 hours after application for its purchase has been made. If for some reason they haven't called the FTIP line, they can do it today while I'm there. When they call is irrelevant to the 72 hour waiting period. |
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Posted: 1/2/2007 10:32:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Update.
Before I went to GAT I figured I'd call the ISP just for the hell of it. They confirmed that 72 hours was just that, 72 hours. They also looked up my name and found no open transactions for the check so I was told by them, I'm good to go. I went in to GAT, plopped the balance due down and was handed my gun. No BS, no conversation, just 13 rds of .45 ACP goodness.
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Posted: 1/2/2007 11:01:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Glad it worked out correctly ! ! !
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Posted: 1/2/2007 12:20:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Just wait for their REPO man to come get it. 
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